Jumping into the Dating World after PDex

[BefuddledClarity]

This is really embarrassing, but here I am...

So here's the story...

I left my abusive PDex [who's my son's father] 4-5 months ago, when I got evicted pretty much[it was the only way to escape him]. About a week after the eviction, my brothers introduced me to their friend "Marino". We hit it off instantly, and were in the "honey moon" phase. However, Marino requested we take it slow, so out of respect, I backed off and treated him merely as a friend [ex. No kissing, no cuddling, no pet names, no "intimate times", etc]. Whenever I back off, he gets sad, and starts treating me as a GF[ex. Cooking for me, doing my laundry, kissing, cuddling, pet names, etc]. However...if I initiate the affection he either calls me "weird" or tells me how "uncomfortable" I make him. So I back off AGAIN, repeat cycle of confusion. He did mention he has insecurities, abusive exes similar to my PDex, and has anxiety but ... My patience is wearing thin.

Not to mention, when I lost the car and was temporarily unemployed [I'm employed now], he hardly initiated wanting to hangout. Everytime we hangout, it's either at his place or at bars/restaurants...I used to offer to pay all the time when I could, and when I couldn't, Marino would pay for me ...I just... He also is terrible with time management, and was late on multiple occasions or just no show and apologizes constantly for it. At first I was like "whatever, he did mention he has ADD/ADHD" but it started to affect my schedule and time, because I'm busy.

Anyways, I gave up on texting or asking Marino to hangout, because he'd give one word answers or short replies, or even answer the next day. He also DID mention he sucks at texting[but I think that's a lie...]...but he also doesn't like phone calls, so idk how the h*ll I'm supposed to contact him? He texts me "good morning" everyday though so far. I'll reply with morning back but...nothing extra anymore [I used to try and have a conversation, he hardly replies or says nothing at all].... Then he'll be radio silent, and he did that for two days straight, with him only initiating a "good morning" and "good night" texts. I called him out yesterday saying something to the effect of "I'm here if you ever wanna chat I guess. Have a good day", and he claimed to be busy ALL day shopping...on his day off... Tbh, usually he just smokes and watches tv on his day off (that's what he tells me), and he still won't respond so I don't even know really if he's tell the whole truth or just avoiding me?? But also, why is he always initiated the first/last texts with the good morning/goodnight everyday, but just staying silent after???

He actually has some legal issues going on too, family emergency, and depression but...me too...so I tried to help him with said issues, and gave money, food, transportation, literally ANYTHING he needs, and now he's shut me out...

Should I be more patient? Am I being unreasonable? Maybe I make him nervous?


So fast forward to now...I just recently started talking to Marino and my mutual friend "Kaleo"...his personality is amazing [ex. Confident, funny, knows what he wants] and I love the sound of his voice, but I am not physically/sexually attracted to him, Kaleo is attracted to me though. I feel confused. I wish I was physically/sexually attracted to him. I don't know if it will take time, or if I just need to let it go. I don't want to hurt him. I already told Kaleo about my abusive ex and that I was seeing someone [I didn't use Marino's name, but did mention the things that Marino did]... I told him my emotions are everywhere and I feel confused and can't really be in a relationship. Kaleo said it's fine, and that he still wants to get to know me. We texted for HOURS and talked on the phone for HOURS and I felt really... Comfortable? We plan on hanging out on person too...I just...confused...


Anyways...I'm thinking at this point, maybe I shouldn't date at all?

What should I tell Kaleo and Marino?...I'm just...I don't want to string Kaleo on, but wish WISH I liked him physically/sexually, but I don't. As for Marino idk. He's physically/sexually attractive but holy moly, he is TOO confusing with mixed signals and I don't know what to say to him.

I'm wondering if Marino is really a rebound of my PDex, and Kaleo is a rebound of Marino at this point...which sucks. I DONT want rebounds, I DON'T want to hurt people. I miss being able to have a companion I can hold a nice conversation with and cuddle with after... I have NO feelings whatsoever for my PDex. I just miss having someone, I guess. But, I'm going to take my sweet time with it, I'm tired of feeling burned...

I just want a normal, healthy relationship, where I'm attracted to EVERYTHING about the person, not certain aspects. I want someone I can make happy, and in turn, can enjoy being around...Someone who doesn't make it difficult to spend time with.


I feel really silly for even having this issue...I just don't want to hurt anybody in the process...

[Starboard Song]

There is no need to feel silly. This is hard. It is actually hard.

I like a lot of people and enjoy their company. That just isn't the standard for beginning a relationship though, is it? Kaleo isn't your cup of tea, and so it sounds like he's just a friend. Of course, in time emotional intimacy can and does breed sexual intimacy, so you never know where a friendship might lead.

Marino has issues, eh? He asked you to take it slow. You slowed down. He sped up. You sped up. He slowed down. Remember how hard this was when you were young? It never gets any easier. The thing that changes is that as we mature we have the confidence and courage to just speak our mind.

I encourage you to review your post here, and make sure it covers all the things about Marino that are an issue. It sounds like he fully has the ability to be attentive and kind. You enjoy his company and find him attractive. Prepare yourself with good notes, and ask him to talk it out: "hey, you know I was rebounding, and then I know at first we started really fast: I think we need to be straight-up honest about what we are looking for and how close we really want to be. I can tell you what I am looking for, and I'd like you to be really honest with me about what you are looking for." And you need to kindly and directly address some behavior that, really, he's gonna have to fix. No, ADHD is no excuse for being consistently late, or for any No-Show. I discourage texting a message like "I'm here if you want to chat." For a long-time, dear friend that may work. But you are trying to navigate the waters of a new relationship. If you want to go out, or to talk, you have to say so: "please call me in a bit: I'd like to talk to you."

I don't mean to be prescriptive, but illustrative. I think too many relationships falter because we lob hints over the hill and they do they same and we all wonder what the other person meant and why they didn't understand what we meant.

And maybe Marino just isn't right for you. Maybe he's pulling away. But I know this: there is someone out there whom you'll love and who'll love you. There are plenty of them. I wish you strength as you ease into the turbulent waters in search of that boat.

Be good. Be strong.

[BefuddledClarity]

Hi Starboard Song,

I appreciate your insightful post, and took some time to reflect.

Yesterday, despite me telling Kaleo the day before yesterday[when I initially made this post], "I am NOT looking for a relationship, because my emotions are everywhere, but I want to get to know you, and I like you."[I SHOULD'VE said I liked him PLATONICALLY, because jeez...I'm stupid and messed up..."I like you" can mean too many things now.], he began calling me pet names like "babe" and "my love". It made me EXTREMELY uncomfortable...besides that, [though maybe not his fault, probably misunderstood my text? Maybe thought it was a joke? Idk...], I mentioned " I lost [item] that I just got today, that I need for the test for my job ", his automatic response was a laughing face as a reply...That made me upset, because without said item, I could've been disqualified for the job and be jobless again...I told him this after his reply, and he apologized but I ...idk the reaction was strange, or maybe it was funny because "dang you JUST got it and lost it?". So...I'm completely over Kaleo.

Also ...another minor thing I guess... He seems to have parents that...might have FLEAS or PD tendencies, but he thinks it's OK. He mentioned how his parents used to hit him, and he called that love. I can't...I don't agree with it at all, after escaping abusive PDparents who used to hit me and same with abusive PDex... And ... Just some other quirks that I won't get onto that I'm not a fan of, I suppose...but he invited me to a special occasion party, and I'd feel weird to turn it down now after accepting it...

I hate to seem mean, but...idk...I kinda feel weird about him now and slightly want to avoid him after I go to the party I promised to go to. I feel like I messed up...And... I dont know if I'm ready for making more friends...I made another post about going on a Break From "Social Life". I need time to figure out myself and what I want for those 2wks...

Am I being unreasonable to be this way?
I thought my anxiety was gone, but I guess my social anxiety is flaring up again, and it makes me feel uncomfortable. My first reaction is to run away and hide when I feel like this. Kaleo and I made plans to hangout 1v1, but now I kinda don't want to...I've had male friends in the past, even when I rejected them, they kept trying to pursue me, and I'm hoping this won't be the case, but who knows...

I don't think Kaleo is a bad guy, but now I feel weird...I also complained about certain things about Marino[without saying his name] that's in this post, and I feel bad too for mentioning it. Kaleo had a similar experience with a woman, so I was relating by mentioning the experiences I had with a guy I'm seeing [which is another thing!! I told Kaleo I was seeing someone, aka Marino, and not sure if that someone and I are still a thing, still trying to figure it out, and Kaleo still swooped in really intense...]


As for Marino...there's a couple of other things that bothered me about him, but these are deep secret related things he said, after he opened up to me. Just some bad stuff that he's done in his early 20s really. He feels bad and regrets about said things, and said he'd never do that to me but... Makes me question him a bit, and whether I can really trust him. I won't say it here, just for sake of privacy. He's not in his 20s anymore and has changed since then, so perhaps I should be more lenient...

Marino ended up texting me more than usual today...and even called me... apparently, he's been stressed out lately, so he just hides...which is EXACTLY how I am. I feel guilty for saying the things I said in this post out of frustration and feel bad about the things I mentioned to Kaleo about Marino [without saying I was talking about our friend, Marino. I kept his name anonymous].

I guess I'm wondering...What should I do?
I feel terrible, but it's not like I can say "Hey, I vented about you to only my brothers and our friend Kaleo, I'm sorry for that" because...that was behind Marino's back...

{{I have a habit of self-sabotaging...When someone cares about me, I try to hate them, which gives me an excuse to run away, which is counterintuitive... I hate myself for it, and can't help it...}}

Also...Marino has mentioned in the past a few times that he...loves me too, and regardless of what happens between us[relationship or not], he wants me forever in his life. And mentioned how I'm really special to him as well as different...

But... He has also said things like "Hey, I can hook you up with my friend!" to "Wow, I'm a little jealous that they're trying to steal you away from me, haha". We're not exclusive, I don't think...But...I'm wondering if he said the first line, thinking I didn't like him as much? Or just trying to make me happy?? Or secretly testing me to see how I'd react, wondering if I actually like him or not?

Marino makes no sense at all and confuses me constantly, and flip flops his answers sometimes. I'll get an answer out of him once and for all with a phone call or in person... Just... To see what he actually wants... I didn't discuss it over the phone when he called, due to him already being stressed so, it'd be kind of random...


Another thing...
I can relate to where Marino is at in life, and I feel like a jerk for not being more considerate...but also I feel frustrated with the time management thing because it's a big deal to me...Marino was blaming his ADD/ADHD on being late. As for the No Show...he texts the next day apologizing saying he can't or is hiding....he feels bad but just said he couldn't go out.

Like I mentioned, he reminds me too much of me sometimes and I can relate to those feelings, the only thing missing though is that he needs to communicate and be honest. I usually tell people "Hey, I changed my mind. I don't feel like it." I'm pretty blunt with my feelings now...

Anyways, thank you for reading my (rather long) post! I don't know how to condense down what I want to say, and I'm doing it on a mobile device, it's a bit hard to revise my posts this way... Apologies if anything sounds incoherent.

[Starboard Song]

I can relate to where Marino is at in life, and I feel like a jerk for not being more considerate...but also I feel frustrated with the time management thing because it's a big deal to me...Marino was blaming his ADD/ADHD on being late. As for the No Show...he texts the next day apologizing saying he can't or is hiding....he feels bad but just said he couldn't go out.

Like I mentioned, he reminds me too much of me sometimes and I can relate to those feelings, the only thing missing though is that he needs to communicate and be honest. I usually tell people "Hey, I changed my mind. I don't feel like it." I'm pretty blunt with my feelings now...

There are two things here I want to comment on. If someone being late or flaking out is upsetting and disappointing, and if any disability causes them to do this thing that is upsetting, they aren't right for you. The touchstone here is not whether they are culpable or guilty or whatever. It doesn't matter if they are innocent. A person's inability to please you by the rudimentary task of showing up on time may be a failure to meet your bona fide requirements for a relationship.

The social anxiety thing I totally get. I've been there. But again, the fact that you suffer from this too is not a reason to "go easy on him." It maty run the other way: two people with this problem may only make things ever harder for themselves. Two challenged people may only make things harder on themselves by trying to be together.

These are merely observations and are not determinative.

[BefuddledClarity]

I can relate to where Marino is at in life, and I feel like a jerk for not being more considerate...but also I feel frustrated with the time management thing because it's a big deal to me...Marino was blaming his ADD/ADHD on being late. As for the No Show...he texts the next day apologizing saying he can't or is hiding....he feels bad but just said he couldn't go out.

Like I mentioned, he reminds me too much of me sometimes and I can relate to those feelings, the only thing missing though is that he needs to communicate and be honest. I usually tell people "Hey, I changed my mind. I don't feel like it." I'm pretty blunt with my feelings now...

There are two things here I want to comment on. If someone being late or flaking out is upsetting and disappointing, and if any disability causes them to do this thing that is upsetting, they aren't right for you. The touchstone here is not whether they are culpable or guilty or whatever. It doesn't matter if they are innocent. A person's inability to please you by the rudimentary task of showing up on time may be a failure to meet your bona fide requirements for a relationship.

The social anxiety thing I totally get. I've been there. But again, the fact that you suffer from this too is not a reason to "go easy on him." It maty run the other way: two people with this problem may only make things ever harder for themselves. Two challenged people may only make things harder on themselves by trying to be together.

These are merely observations and are not determinative.

With the time issue...I've decided to hangout with Marino ONLY on days that are not important, since he has a habit of not showing up on time. Also, I'll usually wait an extra 15mins, to give him time to get ready, and if he does not answer...I'll leave.

I've learnt not to hangout anymore on time constraint days, or I'll be upset...
Also, when I had a car, I didn't care AS much either, but walking and bus riding it makes it difficult...And I live in a VERY, very hot place...

Idk, I think I can overcome this issue...
I'm only on a time constraint based on court related things I have to do and visitations with my son. But...it'll be over soon, so I'll be able to relax and not worry/care too much about time anymore.

I care a lot about this guy too, to try and make it work...

Marino mentioned he's also trying to work on this time issue... He wants to find a doctor and see if there's something he can do about the (undiagnosed) ADHD/ADD thing. He's been unable to concentrate for very important things as well.

I can't really be angry if he's trying and can't help it...So...I'm just limiting what days/times I can hangout when it comes to Marino, since he's usually never on time...

Those are good observations Starboard Song, my second oldest brother made a similar comment to me...saying I can either accept Marino's lateness and know that is how he is, or don't accept it and move on. It's good though to hear from other perspectives.

I just think once the court issues start to lessen up, I'll be less...uptight ... I wasn't really this uptight before and more go with the flow, but with my stress of what's going on in life, it's just harder...

[BefuddledClarity]

Sorry for double-post...

I think I have bad social anxiety...

I'm cool with both Kaleo & Marino right now.

I don't know...I get in my head too much and worry a lot. When I do that, I self-sabotage myself and try to run away from people...and by that, I assume the worse (in people) when I really shouldn't.

I need to get over it...I gotta stop doing that...

[moglow]

It seems like there's a lot of anxiety [if not overthinking going on] here, and that just doesn't sound fun or companionable to me. I see you trying to understand them more than working on or figuring out yourself and your own needs. For me it's becoming easier [after a very long time single!] to accept people as they are and adjust as it goes on. I don't want or need a lot of explanations early on, before I've even decided if I like them that much. And comparing the two? Why not just enjoy both on their own merits for a while? Who says there's a need to "choose"?

An old friend used to get on to me, that every time things looked good I figured out a way to screw it up. I'd make assumptions about them or their motives or demand explanations I really didn't need and had no right to. Don't do that to yourself - it doesn't end well.

[BefuddledClarity]

It seems like there's a lot of anxiety [if not overthinking going on] here, and that just doesn't sound fun or companionable to me. I see you trying to understand them more than working on or figuring out yourself and your own needs. For me it's becoming easier [after a very long time single!] to accept people as they are and adjust as it goes on. I don't want or need a lot of explanations early on, before I've even decided if I like them that much. And comparing the two? Why not just enjoy both on their own merits for a while? Who says there's a need to "choose"?

An old friend used to get on to me, that every time things looked good I figured out a way to screw it up. I'd make assumptions about them or their motives or demand explanations I really didn't need and had no right to. Don't do that to yourself - it doesn't end well.

Honestly, I'm going to stay single for awhile.

I know what my own needs/goals/wants are, right now, I just want my son back, so I'm planning on doing just that and not worrying about anything else at this point. I have many goals that I want to accomplish as well, whether it's with or without a companion.

With the anxiety, I struggle with people. I don't understand what's considered "normal" for friendship/relationships. I want to be good to people, but have been stepped on so much, I'm becoming VERY jaded. Ever since I moved to this city/state, I haven't been able to make a deep connection with people, like I did in my past. I'm getting really burnt out.

I won't out in to much effort anymore when it comes to friendship/relationships for now. I'm tired of trying to please people, after having PDparents whose approval I could never get and being in an abusive relationship with a PDex.

I give up on making excuses for people's bad behaviour, which I realize I did in this post..which brings me to...

As for "comparing the two"...It just feels really awkward with those two guys...They know each other. And it feels like a weird, love triangle, with two guys pursing me. I'm getting uncomfortable.

I only slightly considered Kaleo, since Marino has been hot and cold. But I don't consider him at all anymore. We barely started talking for 2-3 days and he is TOO intense. I only knew him in passing, based on Marino introducing us.

I already told Kaleo multiple times now that I'm not interested in a relationship[ex
"I'm not looking for a relationship right now"], and yesterday, (albeit while buzzed), he still called me "love" and "babe", when I thought he understood that's not what I want...I'm starting to get irritated that he won't knock it off. That I'll have to be MORE blunt than I already am. Maybe cold.

Then Marino is...something else. He initiates his "good morning my [petname]" and he'll come to me if he needs to vent about stuff going on in his life, but I never really see him in person anymore[due to him saying he's a bad texter and he's going through some issues again]. Unless it's at his work[he tells me to come over there anytime I want to, and that he enjoys my company], but it's not the same as hanging out. He's just hot & cold with me all the time.

For example, I can't hold his hand or arm nor cuddle with him most times, because he doesn't like it. However, he finds it normal that we sleep in the same bed, that doesn't bother him, and he expects me to at this point... I also wake up with him on top of me sometimes, cuddling/embracing me. Even when I try to be reserved, he says "don't make it weird, it's okay. You're not a stranger"...Another example, if he changes his clothes RIGHT when we're talking, I advert my eyes elsewhere, he says I can look all I want, it doesn't bother him...it's just lol. Or he'll show me a video on his phone, but gets EXTREMELY close to me in my space where our bodies are touching just to show me. Or does little things to basically have an excuse to touch me, but he hates being touched... I'll call him out soon, when I see him in person, because doing it over text is a terrible idea. We're supposedly going to hangout soon in person, but who knows... I've called him out in the past for some stuff that upset me or made me angry, he apologized.

Marino is going through his own stuff [depression, anxiety,insecurities, legal issues, family issues, etc]. So I'll just...give advice and offer help with legal/family issues as a friend. I actually met his mother, and she keeps asking me if I'm his girlfriend, I tell her no, but she's skeptical. He told me she likes me, I feel pressure... I've met his other family members too. They've been very kind to me, so I don't mind helping at all.


However, however...

Right now, I'm more focused on my son and myself. I have a lot of goals I want to accomplish. This new job is going to help me a lot, and I'm excited. I'm still planning on going on the 2 week break from social life, because I need it.

I'm already in a domestic violence support group, and have therapy coming up here soon. Those things will help my growth.

[1footouttadefog]

It sounds like Marino is not a good match. 

You get to make the call.  If his morning and goodnight texts are the only stable contact you get and if that is not enough, and you don't like the inconsistency otherwise it's your call.


One thing came to mind. Words can mean different things to different folks.  Take it slow can mean different things that different folkss.  For some it means emotionally, or to not move forward in the relationships in terms of meshing lives like friends and family and social networks.   For others it means taking physical intimacy slow
.

Make sure your friends are actually speaking the same language.