The truth war begins

[escapingman]

Can you clarify something, escapingman? I understand that the judge denied the request for an "emergency hearing." But will there still be a hearing at which your evidence regarding your spouse's behavior will be presented to a judge?

Yes it will, but that will earliest be in a weeks time and STBX to get all paperwork including my witness statement to see early next week. My solicitor said the first rejection wasn't necessary a sign of the final decision in a hearing, but I have my doubts. I am seriously worried about her seeing some of the evidence I have given and continue being in the same house, especially those things SG has forwarded to me and is included.

[justducky]

I just feel completely deflated after this, I am not sure what to do or think. After all evidence the judge thinks there is no risk of harm. WTF! Why should I even continue with this, wasting my energy and risk further abuse just to be told it's not bad enough.

Yes, it's like a gut punch. It sounds like you happened to be assigned a judge who doesn't get it. What has your solicitor recommended?

You have other options. IIRC your therapist was on the verge of reporting STBX to social services. The emergency hearing didn't work out. You could tell your therapist to make the report now.

Please take some time to regroup, then move forward. I understand that it's agonizing and demoralizing. Your kids desperately need your help, and you need out of this marriage.

FWIW I grew up in a severely dysfunctional family. My father was uPD. I think he was a narcissist, albeit not the grandiose type, and certainly not financially successful. He drank to self-mediate his anxiety and probably deal with whatever his father had done to him. My mother at least enabled. She may have been a covert narc, I don't know. She grew to be more like him over the years. I watched her slowly implode and my GC sister become more co-dependent as I faded away.

My father was smart enough to abuse emotionally, verbally, and physically and never leave physical evidence. Smart phones didn't exist in the 70s and 80s. I tried to get help--even called the cops once--but no one would help me. It was my word against my lying parents'.

Please help yourself and your kids. The road ahead will be rocky and painful, but finite. Choose to live and not just survive.

You're courageous to have come this far. My hat is off to you, and you're in my thoughts daily.

[escapingman]

Thank you justducky, thank you so much for your reply.

I am not giving up, I know I need out. It's however very deflating when it is so difficult to just leave, even six months down the line STBX is asking me to change my mind and stay married. But since I am very close to report her to the police (social wouldn't necessary for her and they are slow) I might as well just go ahead with this hearing and if she knows a week in advance she does. Maybe I can go to a hotel with SG next week until the hearing, I don't know.  And then depending on the hearing, either I or STBX move out. I cannot be in the same house as her, but I am so worried for my girls to be in the same house as her if I am not around. I am more worried about GC to be honest as she carries on like STBX and fights and screams. SG understands, she knows something is not right with her mum. I need to find a solution and fast. I hoped I could get some rest with a court order already today, but maybe I get it next Friday and that will do.

[Poison Ivy]

I realize it's disappointing that the request for an emergency hearing was not granted. But if there is a hearing next week, you will be getting relatively speedy service, at least compared to what is provided by many court systems in the United States. I hope you can get some time and space to breathe and calm your nerves before the hearing, whenever it is held.

[guitarman]

I'm sorry to learn that you are so isolated. I know how that can be but at least I had my siblings to help support me. I was trained not to talk about my uBPD/NPD sister's mental health issues growing up by my parents. Their generation didn't talk about mental health issues so much. They never went anywhere for professional support.

For help in the UK -
If you can find some privacy you can call Samaritans at any time for free 24/7.

Their number is 116 123.

https://www.samaritans.org/

There is also Families Need Fathers

0300 0300 363

Weekends 10am - 3pm
Weekdays   9am - 10pm

https://fnf.org.uk/

You can also contact your local carers centre

www.carers.org

I don't know what other places for you to contact.

You've done the right thing but the court system doesn't seem to work in an emergency situation. It's ridiculous! People are at risk and they delay and make matters worse.

If anyone is in immediate danger then call 999.

I've had to do it several times.

My uBPD/NPD sister has acted out in extreme ways such as threatening her husband with a knife, threatening to harm herself, said she was going to drive off a cliff and actually lit matches outside her son's bedroom door when he was there locked in his bedroom plus many other incidents.

She only calmed down when police or ambulances arrived.

I wrote a letter to our doctor explaining that I can't cope any more and that she needs professional support. It was supposed to remain confidential and was never to be shown to her. She read it when she got a copy of all her medical records. It caused me great distress when she told me that she had read it. They had made a mistake in letting her see it. It should have been redacted.

You've done your best. Please now reach out for more support.

Keep calm. Stay strong. Stay safe. Keep posting.

[hhaw]

I'm curious about what your solicitor SAYS about THE Judge in your case.

There should be background according to how they typically rule, what they hate, what they like, what they despise and IF they're willing to throw law out the door in order to preserve their ignorance and spite..... often Judges and other court officers are bitter and with good reason, IME, bc they see so many terrible things and situations they can't fix or KNOW how to fix, bc "all litigants lie." 

That posture is really harmful to those involved with PD's, IME, esp those attempting to protect children.  Judges, IME WOULD care IF they can't turn away from really compelling facts and EVIDEce.  I say this bc we once had an old white male Judge really take a hateful stance toward me in the Courtroom and throughout my dealings with him over the next year where he was not only rooting for the PDs but actually trying their case FOR them, which culminated in his ruling against me which meant he had to turn his back on the laws to do so.  As this Judge ruled from the bench and put my children in harm's way, my attorney called the Judge out on his conduct, pointing out all the oaths the Judge had taken and reminding him of his duty to honor the laws.  The Judge had a bee in his bonnet, pointed out there was an oath my attorney forgot to mention, then let his egregiously harmful ruling stand....... it was devastating and there were members in my camp who fell apart and handled it very poorly.
My mother actually picked a fight with me and pulled out of my life for a minute, which resolved itself, but I'm not sure how it would have gone had the Judge not reversed himself the very next day and set yet another trial date giving the PDs a chance to hire their own Family T to testify at the next trial.

I will say opposing counsel actually cited the Judge throwing my children's T OFF the stand as reason for something or another he was whining for.... and he got everything he whined for, btw, while we were left dependent on the laws and the humiliation the Judge would face having his bad ruling reversed in the Appeals Court, which is what would have happened, but damn..... so much trial prep, so many legal fees and months..... we didn't want to appeal.

At the next trial, which was a grandparent visitation trial, btw, the Judge ruled with the law and with me and my children.  it was a huge relief and I was glad to be out of that little man's courtroom, bc he didn't care about safety issues...... he didn't care about seatbelts or child safety seats of ashtma meds the IL's failed to give or anything and he particularly hated hearing about it from the Children's T who droned on and on about it on the witness stand...... she was a very iffy expert witness, somewhat frightened of the Grandparents and without personality or the ability to effectively make her points quickly.  My attorney and I had to remind her many times of her duty to the children, bc she would sometimes reverse herself on big issues after speaking to opposing counsel who wasn't above making threats, which scared her.

That said.......
a Judge who isn't moved by the 50 items yur attorney selected from your journals would be more likely to respond to whatever actions that strictly conform to broken laws, particularly those with compelling evidence the Judge can't deny when called on their failure to act, if they fail to act on the children;'s behalf again.

Legal language is very specific and if your attorney hasn't had to focus on that aspect of the law, it would be good to walk through the specifics with her OR seek out a consult with an attorney who specifically focuses on that aspect of the law.  I used to call a very good civil attorney and who was referred by someone I used to work with...... THAT attorney cared about my cause and would read the laws involved, explain them to me and tell me what it meant in my particular case and upcoming hearing/trial which was immensely helpful to know the best and worst facts and what impacted each.

He told me the laws are very simple, but are open to interpretation from attorneys which is where things get complicated.

There are attorneys willing to lie, cheat and steal, just like their clientes, which is what opposing counsel in my Grandparent visitation/eventually cutody suit was willing to do.  A real slick, smart and crafty bad actor willing to throw my children to the wolves, likely bc he believed his clients.  Cost me hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal expenses and T fees for my children, then ruined my children's ability to see therapists for many years after he unduly influenced a Court Appointed Therapist who went rogue on our case and created a summer long trial with my children forced into psych evals with 3 different Ts...... one the Court chose, one the PD's chose and finally one I had to hire to come to my home, out of State, spend the night in our home, observe our routine, food choices, places the children did their school work, how I parented during challenges and also to the school where my children attented.  The T stopped people in the hallway to interview as well as the head of the school and the teachers and parents of school mates in order to undu the apparent harm opposing did when he convinced the court appointed T I was a very bad and abusive person..... that T actually wrote all her repots ABOUT me when I was the only person involved NOT ordered into a psych eval, which is a huge way to expand the time and expense and trauma of a trial that should have been an open and closed matter, but wasn't bc opposing counsel did things he SHOULD have been punished for but will never suffer a single consequence.

I tell you all this in hopes of heading off situations where things go very badly where you can keep them on track.... sometimes you just can't.  Sometimes you can and I'll be happy if you do.

So..... in conclusion...... specific language when crafting your requests for emergency hearings and all legal documents are supe important.  If your attorney doens't read over the specific law she's citing........ she needs to.  She should explain exactly what is required so you can help her select specific acts and evidence to present so your Judge can't wiggle out of doing the right thing required by the laws, IME.

IF the Judge continues to rule against you.......there could be many reasons for this.  Sometimes that Judge has a relationship with opposing counself, and it is hoped YOU chose an attorney who has a good relationship with your Judge.  You can find these things out by interviewing the top dog attorneys in your County.  I would suggest interviewing a top criminal attorney bc they'll have a different perspective on your situation and will give you fresh incite on the specific laws you're up against or relying on........ they might need to do some research then call you back, IME.  Have questions written out and don't bother them with many calls.  You want to ask short questions, keep it short and write down the answers, IME. 

You might have to change attorneys, particularly if you're getting home cooked by opposing counsel enjoying a good relationship with the Judge.  IF your Judge got through law school BC of opposing counsel, for example....... that can be a problem, but it's not detrimental IF you know the laws and cite them, IME.  Expect unfair, unhappy things to happen around court and rulings, but trust the Judge will eventually get it right...... even if it's many hearings or trials down the road.   

You need to become an expert in the laws you're relying on and use that language in your Pleadings and REsponses and language in the Courtroom and with experts...... proactively.

There's a chance your Judge is asking questions like..... WHAT did EM DO to the stbx to MAKE her DO these 50 apparent crazy things?

Your Judge might be an abusive person who doesn't see anything wrong with her behaviors, or perhaps your Judge tends to rule for women or dislikes men in their courtroom and Final Orders.  Whatever is going on..... your attorney should KNOW and tell you and prepare your case according to your specific Judge's biases and failings, IME.

Your attorney should be unfailingly POLITE to your Judge, no matter what.... even when calling your Judge on failures to follow the law..... your attorey will READ those failings into the Court record and state her intention to hold the Judge accountable for failure to follow the laws.

Some Judges are antagonistic and unfair and really biased, IME....... and that's something to expect and counter at every chance..... it's not something to remain shocked by or feel defeated by, bc it's normal and part of the system we're fighting in, IME.

If you have to set up a few appointments with other attorneys to GET the information you need about your Judge.... do it.  Maybe select another attorney IF you find a situation leading you to believe you have to do it.  Sooner is better than later IF that's the case and I'd consider it IF the Judge doesn't like your attorney or if your attorney used to practice under opposing counsel and is overtly respectful and refusing to do what needs to be done in order to honor opposing counsel as a priority instead of do what you and your children require..... these things happen.  I've seen that happen to a friend, for instance and she lost her case badly while her friends were urging her to change attorneys. 

This is another reason to have level headed supporters in this thing with you..... so you can run facts by them and get their opinions.  You're emotional and triggered and vulnerable...... feeling at the mercy of...... which is a very bad position to gain perspective and SEE the entire field.  You need to see the entire field, IME. 

If I were in your situation, I'd definitely use my T to report the specific harmful acts the PD has perpetrated against you and particularly the children.  It appears she's open and willing to DO that for you...... I see no reason not to allow her to do her job as a mandatory reporter.  This will up the pressure on the Judge to take your allegations seriously and apply pressure to protect the children, IME.

Pressure on the Judge is sometimes necessary.

Changing counsel is sometimes necessary.

Finding attorneys who care about your case, to provide context and unemotional opinions is imperative, IME.  Do you have a friend who knows an attorney well?  Call in a favor.  Pay for a few hours of consulting fees.  As I said, consulting with a Criminal Attorney might give you insight into charges broughts against your stbx should she go off the deep end, or if charges are already warrented AND that attorney will give you good intel on the Judge..... I'm completely gobsmacked that your attorney hasn't given you that info yet, if she hasn't or if I missed it.... it's important to your case and how you navigate this legal situation.

Attorneys are just tools, EM.  YOU have to be on top of the case law and evidence and what your Judge wants and doesn't want.

I don't know about trial prep in the UK, but I gave you contact iformation for someone who does.  Clean copies and organization is likely necessary. 

Remember, just bc your attorney says they';ve seen everything... just bc they say they know how to handle everything..... I assure you....t hey do not.  Particularly those who crow about their ability and past cases...... they haven't seen what you're up against and will likely go all stupid and confused as things continue going wrong for you, IF they go wrong....your attorney might even say things like...... "If only I'd known A, B and C" after YOU TOLD HER many many times those things...... it's just very easy to ignore litigants with stories that seem improbable, IME.

THAT's why you should have your notebook with EVIDENCE they can look at while you talk about your case in specifics.

That's why you should fire off e mails driving home and documenting the important things.... so they can't pretend ignorance if things go way South for you.

It's easier to force people to do the right thing if you have their failings documented AND if they fail you it's not necessarily a bad thing as sometimes it leads to them HATING  your stbx and doing a much better job fighting for you and the children, bc no one likes to look like a fool and no one wants to admit to being incompetent..... sometimes an attornney failing you is the beginnign of them fighting for you like a TIGER, IME.

That's why understanding what the Judge is like is important.... you need as many pieces of this puzzle as you can get, IME.  To head off trouble, craft your Pleadins and REsponses in the best possible way to get what you need to protect your children.

I haven't heard anything about opposing counsel yet.  What is that attorney like?  Are they known for being a scoundrel or for being an up and up person?  Do they play golf witih your Judge or go on cruises with them?

You need to know, IME.

[escapingman]

hhaw, thank you for your comprehensive reply.

I am not sure if I have confused things, this is a court order not actually related to the divorce although it is, it is to stop STBX abusing me and the children and hopefully remove her from the house. The judge called my solicitor and said he didn't think it was urgent enough to rule today without a hearing so he wants a hearing next week. In the UK the judge can give a temporary ruling that would be standing until the hearing. So if he would have agreed STBX would possible have been asked to move out and not talk to me until the actual hearing next week, and then depending on the the hearing that could stick or be changed. The great thing with that, if it would have gone in my favour, would have been she could not have harassed me without risking being arrested before the hearing next week.

I do believe I have a great solicitor, but I might be wrong, I hope not. I also think my STBX has a bad solicitor, I might be wrong again, but I hope not.

But, I have the weekend to think about next step. I think I have the option of a meeting with the judge on Monday morning to convince him that it is necessary to get the court order immediately to protect the girls, especially since there are things from SG in the evidence that will not go down well with STBX.

[guitarman]

Wow hhaw!! It sounds to me like you've had many narcissists involved with your case. The legal system and mental health system attracts them.

It's enough to drive anyone insane with all the worry and stress involved in preparing a case and going through with it.

I know because I have a friend who has been through it all here in the UK with his children and their abusive mother. He won custody eventually.

That is why we all need ongoing specialist support from other people who know what it is like to cope with someone living with a personality disorder.

We know what it is like. Why can't the professionals be trained better? There needs to be more raising of awareness. There are many champions who are passionate about change but it takes so much time to educate and change attitudes. We can do our part by telling our stories. Keep telling your story. It's important that you do.

[guitarman]

Escapingman I hope that you can get a meeting on Monday morning and that it all goes well for you and your children.

[Poison Ivy]

Ah, I see that I wasn't understanding correctly before. Is the order you are seeking one of these?

https://www.ncdv.org.uk/are-you-suffering-domestic-abuse/how-the-law-can-protect-you/

[escapingman]

Ah, I see that I wasn't understanding correctly before. Is the order you are seeking one of these?

https://www.ncdv.org.uk/are-you-suffering-domestic-abuse/how-the-law-can-protect-you/

Yes, the non-molestation order at the moment.

[D.Dan]

Hi EM,
I don't post much right now because I'm still recovering from my divorce from uPDexh and uPDfil. Still, I've been following your situation since its very similar to mine.

I just want to remind you that the Judge is not your only option to get things rolling faster (because truthfully, Judges can't protect anyone in a moment of crisis as its happening, that's what the police and child protective services are for).

I suspect each Judge has their own idea of what extreme abuse is, and if they don't see the trigger words for it, then its not that bad to them... but it is that bad to those having to suffer it, so don't give up!

My counsellor was a mandated reporter for child abuse and was the one to report my uPDexh to child protective services. However she was nice enough to warn me first. She was also my support  while I was contacting DV centres for more help. She also made herself available to me at all hours due to my situation and guided me to the phonelines i could call for immediate help when everything felt too much for me (because that is normal in abuse cases, the victim usually does not seek help until its too much for them).

In my case, my counsellor and my DV support person both contacted child protective services (truthfully, I was too scared to do anything to change the situation so I relied on their outside opinion of the situation. I knew it was dangerous for me... but that was it and I considered myself expendable compared to the kids.)

From there, I was able to get a protection order for all 4 of us (which is unheard of in my area), and was somewhat able to be safe while divorcing (I never fully trusted my ex or his Parents who lived 2 houses away).

I did have to run to a homeless shelter for a week with all 3 of my kids (which was NOT a good idea for my kids needs but did help us be in a safer place and help us get the protection order), because of how my exh was escalating at the time demanding constant praise from me to prove my love for him (every 5-10 min, about 5-10 times an hour) while implying at the same time how scared he was of me and refused to sleep for over 4 days straight (he usually slept 10-12 hours every day and got pissed if it got interrupted). so this situation set my alarms bells off severely.


One of the things i did understand, was that my perspective on my situation was not accurate because my situation seemed to scare other people, to the point they didn't want to let me go home.. but my kids were there and they needed me to be their shield, their caregiver, and the person who loves them no matter what, always and forever.

So I listened to these outside people and they did help my kids with me (like you, I was a the main target along with our oldest child, my ex considered him sexual competition at 6 yo and was jealous!) My ex tried making me chose between him and our children  constantly.

It's bittersweet. I don't regret loving my exh, i truly loved him and I truly believe that all 3 of our children were made out of love, even if it was only my own. (I tell them this all the time, they were born from love and they are wonderful )

I do not regret being with my ex, i feel bittersweet about it... but I loved him each time our children were conceived and born. That i will never regret!

I wish and hope for the best for you and your girls. You all are in my prayers 

[SonofThunder]

I realize it's disappointing that the request for an emergency hearing was not granted. But if there is a hearing next week, you will be getting relatively speedy service, at least compared to what is provided by many court systems in the United States. I hope you can get some time and space to breathe and calm your nerves before the hearing, whenever it is held.

EM, everyone elses experiences are such good advice from those that have walked on your trail ahead of you.  I agree with Poison Ivy regarding making some time and space to breathe and reset.  In addition i want to remind you my friend that this is war.  A truth war.  As the true quote says about war:

"No plan survives first contact with the enemy. What matters is how quickly the leader is able to adapt."

You are armed with truth, and your opponent is not armed with truth.  You are the leader with the advantage in truth.  Therefore, now that you have had 'first contact' its simply time to step back (a God-send your stbx will be away) and 'adapt'. 

I want to remind you that your plans at first did not include awareness of an emergency hearing, so taking one step back is currently where you are located.  Plan from there.  The fact that your stbx may be made aware of all that occured, could be a blessing in disguise, as with your camera/recorder rolling, she may actually display behaviors that are SO convincing, you wont have to wait for her to abuse you again (what the original plan was with a yes today). 

Therefore you are going to turn a huge scary unknown (your 50 points and knowledge of the court decision) into a known, very fast. (Scary yes, but prep this weekend for the capturing of the potential meltdown).  I will be praying for you soldier. 

Move forward with a new plan, armed with that TRUTH.

SoT

[escapingman]

Having slept on it and given it another thought, I think I will ask for a meeting with the judge on Monday morning and try to convince him to give the order without notice to STBX. There are things in the evidence that will set STBX off when she sees it and I need to explain that to the judge. STBX will not react well to see that I have reported her to the police and social in the past, nor will she take it well what is reported about how SG has complained about STBX's behaviour. I fear for an all out rage attack directed at either me or SG or both when she gets to see the accusations. I will need to try to get that message through. If not, it will be on the judge if something bad happens.

STBX left a couple of hours ago, the calm that immediately entered the house is just wonderful. GC came straight to me and smiled and was wonderful, and now the girls are playing on the X-box together. I am using the time to get some jobs done that is impossible with STBX around. May this peace last.

[Poison Ivy]

Your plan sounds good, escapingman. And thank you for the update on how the time without your spouse is going.

[escapingman]

Had some more details about the last incident between STBX and SG, that could swing it. Also, I find it so disturbing what she told me so I am planning to call the police and report her as well. The divorce is really second interest right now, safety for everybody is the only thing on my mind.

The day has been good, SG had a bit of a temper when she didn't find something (a direct symptom from STBX and her abuse). But we went swimming whilst GC went out with a friend, funny how she immediately arrange to see friends when STBX is gone.

Me myself are feeling calmer, healing is starting slowly. Had an incident whilst driving when someone unprovoked gave me the middle finger, think they had an altercation with the car in front but decided to "punish" me as well. SG told me to beep the horn, I told her I won't do that and uf they feel the need to do what they did they already lost and I calmy drove away forgetting about it. If that would have been STBX she had left the car chasing after them.

[SonofThunder]

Had some more details about the last incident between STBX and SG, that could swing it. Also, I find it so disturbing what she told me so I am planning to call the police and report her as well. The divorce is really second interest right now, safety for everybody is the only thing on my mind.

The day has been good, SG had a bit of a temper when she didn't find something (a direct symptom from STBX and her abuse). But we went swimming whilst GC went out with a friend, funny how she immediately arrange to see friends when STBX is gone.

Me myself are feeling calmer, healing is starting slowly. Had an incident whilst driving when someone unprovoked gave me the middle finger, think they had an altercation with the car in front but decided to "punish" me as well. SG told me to beep the horn, I told her I won't do that and uf they feel the need to do what they did they already lost and I calmy drove away forgetting about it. If that would have been STBX she had left the car chasing after them.

Glad to read you are experiencing some glimpses of peace.  Im following closely, as im interested in your next strategic move in the truth war. Sending you strength vibes EM!  Breathe deeply. 

SoT

[JustKeepTrying]

EM - I am glad you are having moments of peace and calm.  It makes all the difference in this difficult time.  I am sending you calm. wise and thoughtful vibes for your hopeful meeting with the judge. 

Here in the US - a week delay is not long at all - in fact that would be considered by some an emergency date. I worked in the CPS here for a while and the process is different.  Here in the US - they only convene immediately in the most severe cases such as children in cages, etc.  A child with a broken bone would be removed from both parents through the investigation and the hearing could be months off.  So a week is good.  Consider getting your therapist to provide her notes as well.  Outside confirmation helps.

Good luck!

[Bettyrubble]

Just wanted to chip in and wish you all the best with this. It can be so hard to remain true to yourself and not get sucked in to the craziness but I'm glad you are finding moments of calm and trying to be there for your kids x

[escapingman]

I don't even know what to say and where to start. If the judge doesn't change his mind tomorrow there will be a disaster. After having a really nice evening with a nice meal with the girls, GC suddenly changed, not sure if she was feeling guilty for having a nice time with me and SG or what happened. She then started screaming and swearing and hating me etc. In the end SG said she was awake to 4am with a pounding hearth as she could not settle down. Today GC has been screaming at me all day telling me she hates me. STBX then back home, all escalated and after 2 hours of STBX and GC abusing me and SG, GC attacked SG and almost broke her arm. I am beside myself.