I'm reacting in old ways

[Lookin 2 B Free]

I read here, but seldom post.  I'm exposed to family a lot right now, FOO and others, for reasons that are good. My choice -- I'm perfectly capable of going LC or NC and am doing that with my ex. I'm trying to spend a little more time with non-family, just to balance it out ... and maybe "detox."

I guess there are triggers being set off by a few people I care very much about who are distancing themselves a little from me - not completely, just a little.  It's bringing up childhood feelings of "Nobody here wants you."  "I guess we have to let you be here, but we don't have to treat you as 'one of us' or have you share in our interactions - you ruin everything so could you just sit over there out of the way and be quiet so we can try to have our good life and not have you ruin it!"  (Not that that is happening that way now, nor is it the same people, but I'm reacting in the old unhealthy way.)

I feel shame, humiliation and a desire to run away.  Like run away for good and sever myself from these few people I love and everyone else, just go hide.  I already feel myself going into my "shell." I don't want to talk with them -- I already feel humiliated enough and I sure don't want anyone thinking they have to act like they want me in their lives more than they do.  Instead, I'm trying to work through it with a trauma counselor.  So much pain, though . . .     And disempowering.  I hope I can heal from this.    Thank you all.

[treesgrowslowly]

I think I get what you are saying here.

I can offer my 2 cents from what I've learned.

When we didn't feel that sense of belonging during childhood, I think we seek that out as adults. Like you said, as adults we end up feeling "Nobody wants you here" all over again at times.

The problem is, adult to adult dynamics are different. "Belonging" can mean different things to different people in adulthood. The ideal is to find some people who really do understand and appreciate us, but a lot of that is luck of the draw - we don't have much control over who we live near, who our co-workers are, and who we meet and who has time to socialize with us. Mostly, in adulthood, we all do our best with the hand we are dealt. There are going to be times where everyone around us is focused on their own stuff, and no one is really tuned in enough to notice that we are working on healing this huge source of inner pain! It is not your fault when this happens.

Belonging does come easier for kids...Children are given time to play together, and are looking for friends - by comparison, adults are busy people with many demands on their time. My point is that finding that group where we 'belong' can be elusive.

Adults who distance themselves from us can do so for a lot of reasons, and it could be due to reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with you.

Adult friendships can be such a challenge. Most of us are not close enough with the people we spend time with, to talk openly about the things you are bringing up - how feeling rejected is a real, valid issue you are working on inside yourself. It sure would be great if more people took the time to tend to relationship with us, but the reality is that they really don't. Only a few of the people we meet, are going to want to go beyond the superficial "you can hang out with me, but mostly on my terms" sort of thing....

Most people are too busy to really commit to much besides whatever sort of social routines they already have. Some people keep themselves busy - these could be the people who you feel are distancing themselves from you. They focus on having plans rather than building friendships. For those of us with childhood trauma, that can be hard to work with. I learned that the hard way. When you are doing inner work to heal from pain or trauma, spending time with the 'busy crowd' can be hard. these can be the people who re-trigger the old wounds inside. A lot of them may not realize this is going on. Since healing work is inner work, we are doing it while also being in the social world.

When I started healing from trauma, no one around me cared, and because it was 'invisible' work, they didn't see it. And the rejection wound is definitely a real wound that needs real healing.

It is painful to live without people who are close enough to talk this through with. I do think that during the healing journey, there are times where people are going to want more from us than we can give them. By that I mean, they are going to want us to keep the friendship 'casual' (i.e. not talk about any of our needs as you wrote out so well here, the valid need to belong). That can be hard during a healing time - to bring our heart places where people are just not interested in hearing about the deeper work we are doing with ourselves. There is a lot of pain, I totally agree with you.

Learning to enjoy the types of friendships that most adults seem to focus on - that is hard. It doesn't always suit us (when we are looking for relief from those trauma wounds, and other people are being 'casual' about their time with us). Hang in there, work with your therapist, and remind yourself that you are healing from this - a little each day. A large percentage of the people around us as adults, will never ever realize we are doing intense healing work inside us. Relationships largely can make us feel disempowered. I get that too. Feeling empowered happens through the internal work you do with yourself. It is very courageous to do the work you are doing.

Trees

[Boat Babe]

Trees, I found what you wrote so very insightful and relevant to my ongoing core wound work, which has been playing merry hell with me since I came off my antidepressants in November.. I am really grateful to you. (Being meds free is hard work after 20 years but I've got through the worse of it and my brain is slowly readjusting. I'm glad I took the plunge and it's gonna be ok)

Lookingtobefree - I do like your name ❤️.  You have such emotional courage to sit with such painful, long-standing, raw feelings and remain a good person. I think we so underestimate how amazing we are given the shit we've endured. I'm glad you could come here and offload a bit and allow us the privilege of supporting you in a difficult time (hopefully not too long).  What practice do you use when strong and painful feelings arise? When I remember, I use Kristin Neff's simple, 3 step self compassion break. Really comforting, gets my emotions regulated again and allows me to question the narrative in my head.  Huge hugs to you.

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi Boat Babe and Lookin 2 be free,

Emotional courage indeed. We have survived so much to be here.

This very evening, a video was in my youtube feed about emotional regulation. I am going to post it in the "other media resources" area for discussion and comments. It relates to what has been written here so far. I think it summarizes a lot of what I have learned to practice more often. And these days, I do find that I am reacting in old ways as well.

Something about the place we are at in the "new normal" is hard to adjust to for me. Lots of PTSD emotions have come up. "Mindfulness" is such a buzz word these days, but some of us are very mindfully aware of what we are feeling, sometimes there is TOO much mindful awareness of which emotions are strong!

Boat Babe, I'm grateful for your posts too. It really is understandable that you are letting your brain go through this change with going off the medications you were on and it is taking time. Hang in there. November to May sounds like a long time, but for our nervous systems, sometimes there is a long period of shifting, before the clouds clear and we feel more 'ourselves' again. It is going to be ok.

Trees

[Lookin 2 B Free]

Thanks so much, Trees & Boat Babe.  It's so helpful to share with others who understand and to hear how they are coping.

I have friends who relate to these issues and with whom we talk about these things, but, interestingly, I hardly ever react this way to them.   The ones I was referring to here really have no idea about what I've been through in my earlier life or my periodic fear of rejection from them, even though we've had loving relationships over many, many years.  They would probably be floored.  The "signs" I felt I was picking up on last week have disappeared.  Maybe they were distracted or tired or busier than usual with something.  I usually find out eventually that it is something very simple and ordinary that has nothing to do with me.  So it passes without them ever suspecting that I've had any reaction at all.

I guess this is part of what I do is just force myself to wait and see if this is some temporary thing that is just reminding me of the old trauma, which it almost always is.  I don't want to drive people crazy constantly looking for reassurance or dropping in and out of their lives based on some shell shock reaction I have to something that is just a typical little blip in a "normal" person's relationship.  So I try to just carry on when with them, and then do the trauma work myself or with my counselor.  I guess that's the nature of PTSD ... to get triggered over and over by ordinary things that just happen to remind and hit that nerve.

I wish I could tell in the moment when it's a "false alarm" (which it almost always is) or when I'm sensing something accurately.  But I can't tell until the passing of time makes it clear.   So I have these periodic times I spend "in the foxhole,"  filled with fear and shame,  and they almost never have any basis in my current reality.   Sigh . . .

Thanks for the reminder of the courage this journey takes.  And self-compassion, too.  i don't think I could get anywhere with healing without that!   

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi Lookin 2 be free,

Good to hear you are feeling better.

It really is the process with PTSD, at least it has been for me. I have found Pete Walker's book and website to be the most accurate and helpful in terms of describing the stages of recovery with C-PTSD.

He has a chapter called "Flashback management" that I return to and re-read periodically when I have had old stuff come up more strongly.

The 'old ways' do come back now and again, but they don't last as long as they did before therapy, and they are not as intense. So I hope that is what you are finding as well. They have not disappeared completely, and probably never will for me. They are, after all, part of an "alarm system" in our attachment system that helps us navigate life. I think it is part of the process to have times when fear and shame come up like you describe. Over time it has happened less often for me, and a lot of that is related to allowing it to come up.

One of the things I tell myself these days "everyone has an internal alarm system, not everyone listens to it as well as I do".

It helps to reframe the triggered states to validate that actually, it is impossible to heal if we don't learn more about the roots of where our shame gets triggered. And I do the same thing, in that it is good to take it to a therapist so they can assist with exploring those very tender feelings.

Not everyone learns how to manage their fear and shame, and you are doing well. This is part of self-care.

Trees

[moglow]

I feel shame, humiliation and a desire to run away.  Like run away for good and sever myself from these few people I love and everyone else, just go hide.  I already feel myself going into my "shell." I don't want to talk with them -- I already feel humiliated enough and I sure don't want anyone thinking they have to act like they want me in their lives more than they do.  Instead, I'm trying to work through it with a trauma counselor.  So much pain, though . . .     And disempowering.  I hope I can heal from this. 

I think you ARE healing, and part of that is working through things as they come up. Finding balance is hard when you never started out with it. And then too, we do what we know until we learn better ways. I'm a slower study as an adult - I adapt but it can take a while. And sometimes in the meantime, I hermit where I can until I get back to more stable ground.

Trees spoke well of the adult friendships and not knowing what's going on the other side. Whether they know about mine or not, I try to remember that we all have stuff and some is less apparent than others. I can be really bad to make assumptions about people's intentions or some presumed meaning behind their words/lack of same at times, and I'm working on shaking that off. That too is a process!

[Lookin 2 B Free]

Thanks, everyone, for your kind and thoughtful replies. I like the "shaking off" the mindreading tendency you spoke of Moglow.  And, Trees,  Pete Walker has a webpage with "13 Steps for Managing Flashbacks."   I especially relate to this: " [a] Use thought-stopping to halt endless exaggeration of danger and constant planning to control the uncontrollable. Refuse to shame, hate or abandon yourself. Channel the anger of self-attack into saying  NO to unfair self-criticism."

The helpless, hopeless, frantic, trapped feelings of childhood accompany the sense of things out-of-control.  That a FOO member (who love bombs like nobody's business to get their foot in the door) saw a chance to insert themselves into these relationships I'm speaking of, poaching I think they call it, is really messing with my head.  I tried the few things my counselor suggested, the few things that are reasonable and at my disposal, but it changed nothing in the situation.  I can only control what I do and I'm trying to make that be healthy and healing actions.

To say I'm angry and untrusting of my FOO is an understatement and I have put more distance there.  But what I'm really concerned about is what it might do to my good relationships ... that the others will fall into the trap (which I believe was set by FOO to hurt me - can't prove it, but it's happened soooo many times before in exactly this way).  And what I'm afraid might happen is that I will develop negative feelings about the good ones and it will interfere in these relationships which are important to them and to me.

Anyway, it's a great opportunity for me to work on old stuff from my childhood.  It's right in my face.  I keep telling myself, "If I can get free around this,  the normal relational challenges will be a cakewalk."  And if I can use this as a giant stepping stone in my recovery, I may even someday be grateful it happened.  That's my goal.  And though it may take awhile, I don't believe it's impossible.   I hope I live long enough to see that day!

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi Lookin 2 be free,

If you have FOO who are still actively disrespecting your boundaries (and trying to poach friends of yours is definitely a boundary violation), then your emotions are, in part, the 'alarm system' going off, because something is happening that is a problem now, in the present.

I can't quite tell from your post if this poaching happened in the far past or recent past. There is a huge difference between FOO who are out of our lives, and are not causing on-going drama, and FOO who are still out there, trying to mess with us in some way. The latter, can feel like you are trying to stay dry, while standing in the rain, if that makes sense.

If your FOO are active in making drama, today, then you are reacting in protective ways, to protect yourself from the damage they cause.

No matter what kind of s$%$ they try to pull in the future, you will be ok.

I cannot in good conscience tell you that you won't ever lose a potential friend to their BS. If you have FOO who actively insert themselves in your attempt to make new friends, then that new person might fall for the love bombing. They might, they might not. That really depends on their history, their level of awareness, and their traits.

However, as you continue to work with yourself, you'll find that it is going to be ok, no matter what these other people do or don't do.

And hopefully of course, no one falls for your FOO's love bombing crap.

I had anxiety for a long time after going NC with my FOO. It is normal, natural, and even healthy, to be on alert, long after the actual drama with the FOO is in the past. We had to be in self-protection mode around these FOO who crossed our boundaries so constantly and effectively.

You said that the things your counsellor suggested, didn't change the situation. That might be something to explore. What did you hope would change as a result of their advice? As we all know, we can't change how FOO behave - if we could, this board would look a lot different!!

Was your therapist's advice FOG-informed? Those who have read my posts for a while know that I do have a bit of a bone to pick with therapists / counsellors who don't 'get it' about PD FOO. It is like let's say you invite people over to your house, to visit, and you want to trust them, but one of them goes off and lights a fire in your bathroom and tries to burn your house down. You find them, put out the fire, and their response to you is "I didn't try to burn your house down"....Having PD FOO can be on that order of misery for us, we are on high alert because we have people who are causing damage to our life, and because they are related to us, people (like therapists) get confused about what is actually going on for us.

I'm not saying your therapist gave you bad advice, but I am wondering if you think the advice was helpful or not.

It takes time, and what helps is to be around people who do not act like your FOO, for short periods of time, so that you can focus on how you are feeling before and after being around them. It sounds like that is what you are doing.

This is also why I think a lot of people find that doing volunteer work with animals or in nature, helps them to heal from FOO dysfunction - they can feel safe knowing that these animals are not capable of all the misery that we humans are (love bombing, etc...)!!

It is a process. It is a learning process that takes time and doing exactly what you are doing, thinking about how it is going and asking for advice from your therapist and others on things you encounter along the way. "nons" (non-PDs, non-FOO) will sometimes do things that our FOO also used to do. For example, cancel plans we had with them, and disappoint us. But a healthy person won't do it constantly, and won't treat us poorly as effectively as our PD FOO did. That is the difference.

Look for the green flags in the people you want in your life, and focus on how they treat you, and keep doing the things you are doing. I believe that is the work we are doing here. I love what you included from the Pete Walker book - self-criticism is a very powerful 'flea' that I think a lot of us have after growing up in dysfunctional FOO. It is a daily practice to replace the self-criticism with self-concern, self-curiosity and self-love.

People to be around when healing, are people who encourage you to do the things that help you to feel focused, rested and happy and safe. They might not understand why you do those things, they may not have or want your trauma history, but if they encourage you when you are doing something that makes you feel grounded inside, then those are people who are supporting your healing, without maybe even knowing it.

Trees

[Lookin 2 B Free]

Thanks so much, Trees.  Yes it's recent and ongoing in the present.  Now that the inroads have been made, the FOO just bypasses me and goes directly for them.  So I no longer have a say in any of it or a place to put boundaries.   I came up with the idea a few years ago, when it first started, of talking in a nonblaming way to the FOO to see if we could work out something agreeable to both of us. (My idea, not my therapist's)   I'm not making that mistake again. 

You know, part of what's happening is I'm coming out of some residual denial about my past & FOO.  I knew it was bad, but I never wanted to admit the degree of abuse & treachery.  I've been a bit "deer in the headlights" recently until I started seeing how it really is. and what I need and feel.

The people who I believe are being poached have been in my life a very long time and we've had close and loving relationships.  I don't believe they'll drop me, they do love me and still express that,  but I get worried I'm just becoming less important (which is a very triggering feeling for me from childhood). 

The idea the trauma therapist had was to talk with the one of them (the non-FOO) I feel most comfortable with and give them a little idea of what's going on.  I did and they were kind and receptive.  But people who have never been around this really don't get it ... don't see the manipulation and maybe can't fathom a person could be so treacherous while looking so "nice."   Yes, the love-bombing has worked.

I can go LC with the FOO, and have.  It doesn't feel time for NC yet, but it may get there.   Just knowing there's someone out there who's messing in my life, someone I have every reason to believe wants to hurt me, sets my teeth on edge and infuriates me.  But, as Pete Walker said, I can't "control the uncontrollable," which is what I think this situation is.  But I can sure be more careful about protecting the rest of my life from having this happen ever again. 

I also want to see my part in things.  It's a dance.  I've always had the part of the disempowered & ever-forgiving one.  I'm looking for what I can change to get beyond that.  I may not be able to control the uncontrollable, but that doesn't mean there isn't plenty to work on in terms of myself (including self kindness) 

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi Lookin 2 be free,

In my experience, LC didn't work. It could work with FOO who is not very interested in enmeshment. I have learned that this is on a continuum. Some PDs and their FMs are more avoidant than enmeshed with their targets. Some PDs are so demanding, LC just makes them upset because they know a boundary is being asserted by someone and they want total control.

I agree, self-kindness is key for your own recovery work.

Trees

[Lookin 2 B Free]

Yes, I know what you mean.  That's the reason I've been totally NC with my ex.