on a spectrum? so confused

[finallyfedup]

My therapist recently suggested my spouse may have NPD after a few mystifying gift  failures. I see a lot of signs, but most of them come and go. Sometimes quiet and reserved, at other times will say things like "Appreciate me!" and "This is my world, you all are just living in it!" that seem joking, but often don't play out that way - kids are usually only allowed to do activities he is interested in, one just told his teacher this week that his dad tells him activities are "What I want to do, and you're going to like it". He also will say things like "I will end all your hopes and dreams", "If you don't obey me I will make it hurt until you do", "I will take the thing you love most in the world and destroy it". The thing is, he is super devoted to his kids (when they do what he wants) and is absolutely non-violent.  With me he is neglectful. I only exist if he has a need. There is a never an "I'm sorry", "please", "thank you", "you're a good mom" "you're beautiful" etc, even though I give him the equivalent on a near daily basis. He is never physically or verbally abusive towards me, just displays a complete disinterest in me or anything about my life.  Ex: my dad died of cancer 6 mo ago, I had moles removed 2x in the last 6 months, and have been going to 5 dr. appointments/week on average for the last 3 weeks (nothing really wrong, just catching up on things like well woman exam, teeth cleaning, chiropractic adjustments 2x/week etc) - for all he knows I have cancer and am in treatment. He has never asked me about whether the moles were benign or not or why I'm at so many appointments despite it being a huge fight the first time I had the moles removed.

I feel like the NPD fits, but on a fairly mild spectrum. In reading through the symptoms, I'm not sure I'm not the one with the problem. I can be pretty critical and will often withdraw if we have some type of conflict. Also on paper I'm the one in control. I have all the access to everything - kids, medical, important papers, finances etc. I've tried to give it to him several times - sharing of the mental load, etc, but he is just completely disinterested in doing something for himself / our family that I have previously handled. However, I can see how that could be construed as controlling. We're both really isolated.

I don't know what my point is, just wondering if it is normal for things to feel like they come and go in severity, and normal to see signs of NPD in myself too. Thanks,

[Lauren17]

Hello.
I'm glad you found the boards, but sad that you're in a position to be here.
You're not alone. So much of what you've written resonates with me. The disinterest. The frightening statements said as joke. The concern over whether it's you out your spouse. I've been there. So have many others.
I'm so glad you have a therapist. That's one of the very best tools on your side.
I recommend educating yourself as much as you can on narcissism, the spectrum, the different types. Check out the resources board for several free, we'll respected sources.
The clarity that comes with information can be frightening and difficult to face, but will help you toward understanding your situation and making the best choices for yourself and your children moving forward.

[notrightinthehead]

Just want to add my welcome! You have come to a good place of mutual support and learning. Stick around and join us as we are coming Out of the FOG and start healing.

[blunk]

Finallyfedup, I am so sorry that you are dealing with all of this.

And I am sorry to be blunt, but your statement that he is not abusive is simply not true.

These statements are not jokes:
"Appreciate me!" and "This is my world, you all are just living in it!" that seem joking, but often don't play out that way

These statements are threatening to the point of being scary:
...activities are "What I want to do, and you're going to like it". He also will say things like "I will end all your hopes and dreams", "If you don't obey me I will make it hurt until you do", "I will take the thing you love most in the world and destroy it".

Parental love and devotion does not come with conditions:
The thing is, he is super devoted to his kids (when they do what he wants)  

Purposely neglecting a spouse or child or withholding love, affection, attention, or basic kindness is emotionally abusive:
With me he is neglectful. I only exist if he has a need. There is a never an "I'm sorry", "please", "thank you", "you're a good mom" "you're beautiful" etc, even though I give him the equivalent on a near daily basis. He is never physically or verbally abusive towards me, just displays a complete disinterest in me or anything about my life. 

What the heck...?!?!?! If a casual acquaintance was going through something like this I would ask...nevermind my spouse:
for all he knows I have cancer and am in treatment. He has never asked me about whether the moles were benign or not or why I'm at so many appointments

This is a common response to abuse:
I can be pretty critical and will often withdraw if we have some type of conflict.

Again I'm sorry for being so blunt, but I don't think you are seeing his behavior for what it is. I encourage you to read throughthetop 100 traits fromthetabs at the top of the page. I also highly recommend "Why Does He Do That, Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men" by Lundy Bancroft. It was a complete eye-opener for me. It took me too many years to admit that what I was living with was abuse.

Best wishes to you, and please keep sharing.

[Starboard Song]

I feel like the NPD fits, but on a fairly mild spectrum. In reading through the symptoms, I'm not sure I'm not the one with the problem. I can be pretty critical and will often withdraw if we have some type of conflict. Also on paper I'm the one in control. I have all the access to everything - kids, medical, important papers, finances etc. I've tried to give it to him several times - sharing of the mental load, etc, but he is just completely disinterested in doing something for himself / our family that I have previously handled. However, I can see how that could be construed as controlling. We're both really isolated.

We discovered PDs after a crisis with my in-laws. A psychiatric nurse from NAMI said, "that sounds like classic borderline personality disorder." And our world blew open. A few weeks later my wife is reading Stop Walking On Eggshells and says: "Wait! I have BPD!" It is entirely common for those who deal with a PD person to adopt what you might call PD tactics: we call it "fleas." As in, if you lie down with a dog you get up with fleas. But moreover, many of use feel, when we read about PDs, that we ourselves have some of thes traits. Here's a  clue: I doubt a person with a bona fide PD sees themself in such reading.

We need to be honest about it: PDs are defined by symptoms. We make a list of about ten traits that have something in common and are all maladaptive. If someone presents too many of them, too severely, too often, we deem that to be a disorder. But here is the key: all of us display some of those traits, some of the time, and sometimes severely.

Spectrum talk muddies the water. Some people are very pleasant, and some less so. PDs -- ones worth calling it -- are severely maladaptive. It really is no good to say half of us are "on a spectrum." Most of all those people are susceptible to persuasion, argument, and learning. Most of them can be trusted with your heart. We set the term PD aside for a special subset.

Further, here on this forum, we aren't qualified to diagnose. So when we say "BPD" we only really mean, "you know...that kind of person." I encourage you to focus on tactics that make you stronger and create peace. And yes, on your own weaknesses to make yourself even better.

[finallyfedup]

Thanks all for the replies. I especially appreciate those who took the time to mention that we're not qualified to diagnose. You're so right - I'm not. And it doesn't matter! The real question is: whether he has it or not, am I willing to put up with the behavior in the future? For 18 more years?

We had a terrible fight this weekend, and I said and did things I wish I hadn't. But I thought about them, owned my part in it, and apologized for my behavior, particularly for the way what I said and did must have made him feel, regardless of whether I intended to hurt him or not.

One of the things that happened is that my spouse said about my dead father, "I don't know what it is like to lose a father. I think it would be interesting, I think it would be fascinating to know, but I haven't asked because the stakes are too high with you. It is not okay that you thanked me for being involved in your father's funeral and for "showing up". Who are you to judge whether I'm emotionally involved or not?  You are not the judge and arbiter of MY grief" (his grief about losing my dad). When I called him out on how hurtful his words were, he said, "I'm sorry that didn't land well (not a real apology) Words are very important to me, and I take a lot of time in choosing them carefully. When it comes to words, you are my kryptonite" blamed me for the hurtful things he said

Thanks to this forum I was able to step back and realize what was happening in a way I never have been able to before. Whether or not he has NPD, I don't want to be in a relationship like this.

[TiredOfNarcs]

I agree with the person that said it's better to focus on yourself and how you handle your partner's behavior than it is to spend time diagnosing him and understanding his symptoms. However, I actually do think it can be helpful to recognize what might be possibly going on with your partner if it helps you to gain a sense of clarity that you're not crazy. For instance, i was a confused wreck during and right after my relationship with my narc ex and I thought I must be going crazy, that it's me, that I had no way to predict his future behaviors and it scared me half to death. Like you, my therapist was the one to suggest that his behaviors were consistent with someone who has covert NPD, which enabled me to realize I wasn't actually going crazy or catastrophizing things, like he tried to make me believe. Realizing he was a narcissist enabled me to find so many of my most helpful resources for recovery (including this forum!). Had I not realized he was a narcissist, I likely wouldn't have found such perfect resources to help me through my situation and be able to better predict his future behaviors so that I could prepare for them accordingly to protect myself.