Newbie with PDILs

[Seeking_Peace]

Hey everyone, I'm a newbie and am seeking some support.

Backstory is my partner passed away and we had a child together. I placed a lot of trust in my xILs and spent quite a bit of time with them as my kiddo was a baby. I always thought my xFIL was a bit 'off,' but I brushed it off as social awkwardness. I now believe he may have BPD. xMIL has always been grandiose, plans every family party, and quite literally makes everything about her. She is a notorious boundary stomper with a charming smile and a facade of compassion. At the minimum, she has N traits, but may be narcissistic or histrionic.

After some serious false accusations against my BF (now DH) I limited contact with them and sought therapy for myself and kiddo. This angered xFIL and he began threatening me with legal action and claiming he would follow me if I moved away. They also sent a threatening letter to my DH and refuse to look at, or speak with him. Unfortunately, my xILs were able to obtain visitation of my kiddo, and it has been a nightmare. \ During all of this, I discovered they stole some money and their attorney dropped them. I could compose another thread just on the legal matters.

I have been isolated from that side of the family, and they do not know the extent of the abuse. I am wondering if I should tell a few family members for support, or to just drop it?

Now that I've eloped, my husband and I have both obtained jobs in our dream city. I have lots of family there, and there are great opportunities for my kiddo's education.
I legally have to notify the xILs about our impending move, and I am afraid to do so. I also somewhat fear what will happen if they discover we eloped, since we are now a 'package deal.'

I will be seeking advice from an attorney, but as far as escaping PD individuals, does anyone have tips on escaping unscathed?

[engineer31]

Seeking_Peace, first I am so sorry for your loss of DH. I can't imagine losing my DH and then having to deal with my IL's. We are currently NC with them due to a lot of issues that have built up over the last 7 years.

I am curious if the threatening letter that they sent to your now DH was sent before or after the visitation was granted. Because if it was sent after, I would definitely talk to an attorney. They do not sound safe to be around I would hope a judge would see that and maybe revoke their visitation.

Honestly, I wouldn't tell any family members unless they ask. In my experience, I tried to talk to a few on DH side of the family and it just made things worse. They went back and told MIL what I said and she blew up on DH. They only believe her and what she has to say. Which is fine, I have made peace. DH still has family that lives near us that still treat us like family and love us. It's mainly the family that lives near MIL and FIL that have ostracized us. But at the end of the day, it is up to you and your decision of what you want to do.

As far as "escaping" PD individuals unscathed...PD's don't give up easily. They choose you for a reason. Because you put up with their crap. (Not saying you specifically, just in general) I put up with my PD IL's crap for a long time. I guess you could say I rocked the boat by standing up for myself, my mental health and my family. I had enough of the mistreatment and told MIL I wanted nothing to do with anyone out there. DH wasn't very happy at first. He was still kind of foggy. But when MIL no longer had me to mistreat, she turned to other family members (BIL and wife). Now they are separated and getting a divorce and won't be living near MIL so she's going to have to find someone else to mistreat. I'm a little worried she's going to try and "mend" things just to get back in our lives to mistreat us again because in about a month all she will have left is GC SIL and I don't think she will ever mistreat her and her husband and kids. BUT I know a lot of that has to do with us continuing to hold firm to our boundaries (ie, having them blocked, not seeing them, not letting them in our house, etc) I know for myself, I had to do a LOT of therapy work to get to where I am today. And even now I am not 100% at peace after all of the abuse but I am making progress. If I were you, I would take everything to an attorney and see what they can do for you. The whole thing of your FIL threatening to follow you if you move away is screaming restraining order, IMO.

Good luck! We are here for you!

[treesgrowslowly]

Hello,

I really feel for you. This is a nightmare situation in my view and you will need some legal support, so glad you are talking to a lawyer.

In case you have not already done so, be very clear on exactly what your legal obligations are to them, and ask a lawyer to clarify what are your obligations.

In my experience observing people with NPD, your task is to protect yourself and your child from their manipulations. Narcissists are manipulative.

They act in ways that do not align with the 'typical person', and so you may need to educate your attorney about their narcissism. You may want to write out some examples of their past behaviours, focusing on the facts (i.e. keeping out all of the things it made you feel) to show a pattern of manipulative behaviour.

I don't have any experience with the legal aspect of narc abuse, but I do suspect that being able to show / prove that they lied in the past, might help you if you need to get legal help on how to deal with their antics. The legal system cares about things they can prove, and so much of narc abuse is very hard to prove, and the emotional damage they cause is very hard to prove legally. Again, asking your lawyer what information will be helpful to your case, will be a good idea.

Having a written list of the specific past behaviours they have done / tried that you know are true / very likely true will probably help in a few ways. It might be needed for legal matters that arise over the next while. It can also give you a lot of 'visual' confirmation of who these people are. Narcs always have a public mask and those of us who have seen behind the mask, tend to have a long list of things we've seen them do that reveals who they actually are and how they actually operate.

If they are narcissists, then they try real hard to only present their public persona to people in authority ie. judges. Only a few people will know the real deal - how they actually behave behind the scenes.

they have zero legal recourse regarding you getting re-married. Your fear of telling them, indicates that they have been emotionally manipulative...it is wise of you to think strategically about how to deal with them. These do not sound like reasonable people.

As for telling others - that really really depends on each person. There is little point in disclosing about abuse that you've witnessed / are the target of, to someone who is just going to minimize that abuse, or deny it or make you feel like it is your fault (blame you). None of that will help you at all. I would take it case by case. If you have a family member that you trust, and who will believe you, then that is something to consider.

It is sad to say, but a lot of people will NOT support the victims / targets of narc abuse. They will question the victim's claims, they will try hard not to have to believe this is actually happening. Others here can share about how often they have told someone about narc abuse, only to have that person minimize it "oh it can't be that bad" and so on. So choose your people carefully.

If you want support, do not assume that you'll get it from most people - sadly you will only get it from those who are willing to understand that this is actually happening to you and your family. If they have a relationship of any sort with the narcissists, then you have to be very careful with them - people will often choose to believe the abuser is a 'good guy' even in the face of being told the truth about him.

This has nothing to do with you, and is about their denial that they are dealing with a narcissist, and they don't want to face that.

I speak from experience. Once you have a child, and you are aware of people's character, you can't stick your head in the sand the way others in the family still can. You might find more support here in this forum than with people around you IRL.

As for escaping unscathed - depends how you define that. Sounds like you are moving so there is the geographical 'escape' to a new place (congrats on this!). Escaping unscathed emotionally is a different thing. Learning all you can about narcissism, so that you fully understand that this is how they behave, it has nothing to do with your character or how kind you probably tried to be at some point in your history with them. It is about disordered thinking and behaving that goes back a long time in their own lives.

Understanding how their behaviours affect you emotionally will be helpful. Some of us have ILs or xILs who trigger things that are tied to our own childhood experiences of loss or hurt. We need to understand the way that this affects us, so we know how to take care of ourselves when anyone is 'coming after us' as adults. Do what you can to stay focused on your own goals and boundaries and self-care, because narc manipulations will try to pull you away from those things, and will create drama.

Trust yourself when you think about the damage they do (sounds like they create chaos from what you said about their own lawyer experience). Work not to gaslight yourself (can be hard for anyone who is around a narc!).

Spend time around people who believe you.

Trees

[Cat of the Canals]

Seeking_Peace, this sounds like such a painful position to be in. It might not be the picture perfect definition of "unscathed," but I do think moving is going to really help with things. Will they have a tantrum about it? Probably. Expect it, but don't fear it. And when it happens, you can nod your head internally when it happens "Ah yes, there it is. The exact behavior I predicted!" As we say here, "Observe, don't absorb." Their reactions and words aren't really about you anyway. It's about the own self-loathing and emptiness they feel inside.

I think it's wise to consult with a lawyer, and I hope your relocation goes smoothly. Congrats on the new start!

[Seeking_Peace]

This forum has already been so helpful. I appreciate each of you who responded.

We were waiting on DHs future employer to provide us with his start date before we notified the PDxILs. We finally received his date, and I started my job remotely about a month ago.  I ended up sending an email detailing the reasons for the move, hoping to initiate a dialogue, but xFIL wrote back repeatedly saying 'we' will never approve of this, and that I improperly notified them. It was scathing, and I'm looking forward to passing it along as evidence of the abuse. I have been a complete nervous Nelly since I received the response. I have no idea how these people can be so cruel.

I have been watching videos from Dr. Ramani on BPD, and I swear my xFIL is a textbook case. I remember a few years ago, my MIL was running late, and he started yelling: "Your mother is a liar! She isn't picking up her phone. She's not at work, she's just not coming!" It was so absurd, and she showed up less than 10 minutes later - she just didn't hear her phone. I also got the same vibe when I told him about the move, he doesn't want us to leave.

As far as protecting LO, the therapist indicated she wants to have a session while LO is in their care. Apparently they are continuing to accuse DH, but the therapist told me it is actually defense mechanisms she taught LO. I am very curious if she can enact a safety plan or have LO sent home early if she discovers they are being abusive or neglectful, especially since LO told xFIL a few weeks ago that the visits weren't fun.

I also ended up speaking with a trusted relative on that side. She was appalled and said she knew something happened with xMIL, but didn't realize the extent of it. After explaining, she completely understood why I have been absent, but said she is happy to get together without them. She also mentioned that she will be a little more alert to xILs behavior towards LO.

I'm speaking with the attorney again today. I'll keep everyone posted.

[moglow]

"We" don't have to approve since "we" are neither the parent nor provide a home for your child, guess he's forgotten that part. He may be able to petition the court for visitation but that may or may not be granted. It's not a "right" and nothing is guaranteed. I'm glad you're meeting with an attorney to see your path forward. In the meantime, obvs keep copies of any/all communication and try to not react to his provocations.

[Leonor]

Hello Seeking Peace, welcome!

You are almost there ... Hang tight, it will all work out!

This nonsense has gone on long enough. These aren't grandparents. They're not mothers or fathers in anything. They are acting like a jilted, jealous, stalky spouse. It's time for you to file for divorce.

Document document document. Every email, text, birthday card, dates of phone calls, notes, phone messages from before and definitely now on get documented. If you can record conversations without the other party knowing (this depends on where you are), do so.

Attorney attorney attorney. Family law. Specializing in divorce and domestic abuse. If you don't feel like your lawyer is 10000% on your side and ready to go to the mat for you, dh, and lo, find another one. Trauma therapists and women's shelters usually know the best lawyers. Then only communicate with ILs through lawyer. No phone calls, texts, emails or visits. Everything goes through your lawyer. That includes your possible move.

Kris Godinez and Susanna Quintana have great YouTube videos on divorcing a narcissist. They also recommend a book called Splitting for people in your situation.


You and your little family deserve a future of live and happiness and, yes, peace. Your lo deserves to have a memory story of her father that is loving and kind, and not all mucked up by his awful crazy parents. You and your dh deserve to have your own marriage in which other safe and kind adults are allowed to visit by express invitation, not duress and blackmail.

And you deserve a life that allows you to continue to grow and live and blossom.

[Seeking_Peace]

Can't thank you all enough for the resources, love, and support!

I'm currently in the "thick of things," and they are absolutely groveling. One of them refused personal service for nearly two weeks, just to delay and be cruel. My attorney has been dotting her i's and crossing her t's so that they can't try to postpone anything. I've been told this is a very easy case to win for a few reasons, so that's putting my mind at ease.

Incidentally, they hired an attorney once xFIL read "the dirt" and that is a whole other can of worms. It's apparent the firm doesn't want to represent them, and haven't shown much interest in the case. (LOL.) I'm thinking the firm just wants some desperation money? 

They've been snarky on the virtual visits, and I just smile and set a good example for kiddo. I'm not responsible for their emotions, and I'm certainly not responsible for their actions.

Anywho, if you guys could keep us in your thoughts, we would appreciate it!

[Cat of the Canals]

My attorney has been dotting her i's and crossing her t's so that they can't try to postpone anything. I've been told this is a very easy case to win for a few reasons, so that's putting my mind at ease.

This is great news! And it sounds like you're standing strong and not letting them drag you down into the muck with them. You got this. 

[Seeking_Peace]

Good news and bad news. Unfortunately, the judge wouldn't advance the hearing. I strongly suspect with the holidays coming up.

Otherwise, the judge approved getting the therapists testimony. I'm hoping that will really help us out.