Is the alternative to arguing any better?

[Associate of Daniel]

I don't want to start another Depp/Heard thread here.  I just want to mention a realisation I had about my own UNPD experience as a result  of hearing some of the recordings of their interactions.

And I feel guilty about my response:  At least they were communicating with each other, even if it was yelling/swearing at each other.

My UNPD exH would just shut down on anything that wasn't essentially small talk.

He would literally just not talk, a lot of the time.

What should have been detailed to and fro conversations in order to make some decisions didn't happen.

Buying the next car, homeschooling, holiday arrangements, date nights etc.. Maybe one statement from him. That would be it.

If he was offended by something I did/didn't do:  silent treatment. I had no idea what my crime was.

If I pulled him up on something he'd done to offend me:  silence.

I'm thankful he never swore at me or called me names or yelled at me.  But the neglect and silence were so frustrating.

Neither of the Depp/Heard or AOD/UNPD exH methods of communication are effective or acceptable, I know.

It just would have been nice to have Something, Anything to communicate with.

AOD

[square]

I hear ya.

Some of it is down to our own personalities. I would not enjoy ST but I dislike being yelled at more. At some point it's just a case of picking your poison, cause it's all poison.

I don't get ST or stonewalled but things can still not be arranged or worked out anyway. I'm still lonely anyway. I still have to wonder how to deal with even basic household things anyway. If I trigger him, it won't shut him down, but we won't be having any useful discussion or getting anywhere. I'll just hear how everything is my fault, or I make up issues for "no reason," or he will try as hard as he can to hurt me with his words (and he has unleashed some real doozies over the years).

It's not worse than your experience with ST. But it's not any better, either.

I do feel the ache for basic things like, sheesh, what would I give for a partner who even slightly enjoyed anything in life, looked forward to anything, or who liked anybody. As a PPD hermit he hates everyone and everything. But a toxic person who enjoys things is no better than he is. No point in looking at toxic relationships and thinking "at least they enjoy things." Better to yearn for a healthy relationship than bargaining at the bottom of the barrel.

[SeaBreeze]

uNPDh does both. Rages paired with circular arguments, gaslighting, and mockery. Followed by ST or stonewalling. They both suck, and they've both worn me down. Though I've learned to use his ST as my breather, while the arguing is minimal thanks to my using the tools. Believe me, arguments with a PD aren't "communicating" either. Nothing ever gets resolved, because to uNPDh, compromise equals defeat.

I think we all can agree here that nice, normal conversation without landmines would be amazing.

[Prototypian]

Mine has communication problems but it's either that she is ignoring me like I'm talking to a dog that sees squirrels or she is angry about something.   We don't talk ever for enjoyment.   She monitors many many social media, news and information systems and responds instantly to requests or queries from her constituents.   Her watch and phone are tied into the communication streams and she follows literally everything.   When I say everything, she dvr's all three major news networks and watches them all every night to avoid missing any stories or slants about the city or area.   So when you talk to her any second you can be stopped and she can take on a conversation for 1-10 minutes while you wait. 

At the other end is the isntantaneuous engagement ignoring all social mores or cues to break into a conversation loudly if she finds that somehthung is out of place, wrong, incorrect or in her mind "out of place"

Example of number one:
Years ago we had a date breakfast and I asked for some time and we went to a local place and sat down.   Someone we both knew texted about the high school team in some sport with questions and concerns about something.   It was a Sunday morning after church and we didn't have the kids and the conversation lasted the whole meal with her laughing, texting, reading and ignoring everything I said.   I stopped speaking and got in the car.  She was angry but it had no benefit to me.

Type 2 example was yesterday.   Our son starts college this fall.   The school needed a photo of his social security card which we keep in a fire safe with birth certificates, home deed, passports, etc.  In putting the fire safe back beneath the bottom shelf of the closet some clothes draped in a different way.   She stormed into my office while I was at work on a call and demanded to know why somoen had been in the fire safe.   No "excuse me" or "can I ask a question".  Then while also on the call an interrogation began about why he needed it, why couldn't he just send the number, what did he do with it,".  This was while I was working.   

But there are never ever times to just talk about our future or our lives or the world.   It's just one rant or ingore after another.

[Cat of the Canals]

PDmom's punishment of choice is the silent treatment. And there was a lot of rugsweeping as a result, since when she decided she was done punishing us, we were supposed to move on as if the conflict had ever happened.

I've been around families who do a lot of bickering, and then everyone seems to just get over it or be used to it so it's not even treated as a big deal. When I was younger, I sometimes wished my family was more like that... like you, it seemed that then there would at least be something to actually talk about. Maybe there'd be resolutions here and there. But the times I've witnessed outright disagreement in my PD family and others, there's still no resolution.

[Poison Ivy]

One book I read about relationships said that among the most difficult behaviors to deal with in a relationship is "off-the-table-itis": when one person refuses to talk about the problems. My ex frequently exhibited that behavior.

[SonofThunder]

Mine has communication problems but it's either that she is ignoring me like I'm talking to a dog that sees squirrels or she is angry about something.   We don't talk ever for enjoyment.   She monitors many many social media, news and information systems and responds instantly to requests or queries from her constituents.   Her watch and phone are tied into the communication streams and she follows literally everything.

That was my experience.  After realizing, i just stopped "talking to a dog that sees squirrels", and then was accused of silent treatment. There is a big difference between ST=silent treatment and silence.  It's very similar to the vast difference between being alone, and loneliness.  Experiences can mimic, but they are very different.  I enjoy silence, but loathe silent treatment.

SoT

[Mary]

I experience circular arguments where the point of the communication is to lecture/badger me. I get caught between medium chill to keep things from escalating and a conversation with no exit point. It's awkward to just walk out of the room when you don't know if walking away has escalated things or not.

Mary

[notrightinthehead]

In my experience it is the whole range of hurtful behaviour. Ultimately the message was always the same, disregard, disrespect, being less than. If he raged, if he gave me the silent treatment, the eye rolling, the smirks, the put downs,  the waiting games...all were hurtful and made me feel unwanted. And no, for me it is not better than having no conversation at all. When there is no contact, then there is no further infliction of pain. 

[escapingman]

uNPDw stopped giving me silent treatment when I stopped trying to confront her about her silent treatment. When that stopped she went to shouting instead. Silent treatment is awful when you are in the FOG and don't know what it is, when you know it's a rest. The rage is never fun, even if you are Out of the FOG.

[guitarman]

Abusers are all about power and control. When they withdrawal from communication and stay silent they are controlling your interaction with them which is so frustrating.

They are provoking you into anger so that you shout at them. That way they become the victim. It is the narcissistic cycle of abuse where the abuser turns everything around to become the victim.

How to combat this is to stay calm and not react just carry on as usual. You do not have to feed their narcissistic supply. It's all such a childish mind game. We have to be careful not to play along and become childish ourselves but to remain an adult and become indifferent.

When this happens to me I silently half smile to myself and congratulate myself for staying calm and recognising what is going on. I recognise the mind games that I will not participate in.

Observe, don't absorb.

[Mary]

"Observe, don't absorb."

I will try to do this.
Thanks,
Mary

[falsebalance2]

There is a big difference between ST=silent treatment and silence.  It's very similar to the vast difference between being alone, and loneliness.  Experiences can mimic, but they are very different.  I enjoy silence, but loathe silent treatment.

SoT

Thanks for that. If I don't speak - little to nothing gets said....So my way of dealing was becomming a rambler! I couldn't understand why I kept talking about my past. Then I spent time with a dementia patient this past week and I had this realization each time she told (and retold) me her stories - It was her way of saying "I'm still in here!"
It hit me I have been doing the same! Rambling on to his rolling eyes to say "I am still in here somewhere!"

Once I stopped talking I freaked myself out wondering if I was the pd! And if I was giving silent treatment. But this so clearly expresses the difference.