How to warn people they might hear lies about me??

[rockandhardplace]

My close friends and family are rock solid. I don't have any concerns about him co-opting them as his flying monkeys. But there are some neighbours and friends that I suspect think he's super dad. I catch up with a school mum every few months. She knows a fair bit but I feel she doesn't want to hear, that she's in the abuse is private business camp. The thing is though her daughter is best friends with mine and I have some pretty realistic fears of parental alienation so I really don't want her to fall for his lying sob story. How do I gently warn them without seeming like I'm trying to turn them against him? 

[Empie2204]

Rockandhardplace,
I think you are on the right path if you think you can gently warn a school mum but that´s the limit.
If people have the radar for such situations, they will think about it.
They will consider your side of the story if they think with their brains. If not, there is no use trying.
Being in an abusive situation means losing some contacts along the way. And as for rumors, they last for some time, until the new ones appear on the horizon.
There are some things we cannot influence or change. Luckily, not all the people think the same. I am sure there will be enough well-intentioned people for you. 

[escapingman]

I am in the same situation, not sure,what to say but if they side with uNPDx I will cut them lose. I watched this video about the subject yesterday, it's gold dust.  https://youtu.be/ccjohiiwfBk

[Starboard Song]

How do I gently warn them without seeming like I'm trying to turn them against him?

We faced a smear campaign from my MIL. She told amazing lies about us, she portrayed us as monsters, to members of the community.

I encourage you to be proactive only in limited circumstances, where things could get out of hand without you knowing. In most cases, we shouldn't have to bring up the topic to make a preemptive warning. When you do bring it up, you are right to be very careful to understate your fears while accomplishing your goals.

This is a serving suggestion: "Hey Linda, thanks for asking. It's been very hard, and afraid there's been more acrimony than I had hoped for. I want you to know that I understand how hard this can be for our friends, and I respect everyone's friendship with him. I want you to maintain that friendship with him, just as I value your friendship with me. And look, if anything is said that seems off-color or not right, I promise you needn't be afraid to discuss it with me. I promise to help you and all my precious friends to continue to have the relationships they want without being involved in this temporary noise. I really appreciate you."

[moglow]

I feel she doesn't want to hear, that she's in the abuse is private business camp.

To address this: To me it IS private business, nothing that need be discussed other than an as needed basis, as in fears for their/children's safety. Most reasonable people don't want or need to hear specifics, as it truly is none of their business. They don't have to choose sides - that's all on them, how they want to continue the relationships. If they're picking and pushing for information, it would creep me out and make me wonder if they're playing both sides against the middle or possible flying monkeys. By the same token, if you provide more information than they want or need, it might make them feel very uncomfortable and pull away from you, not wanting to be involved in any of it on any level.

I truly believe that we continue to be and show by our own behavior who we are - people will see through his as well, but it may take time. It takes me back to the Golden Rule and do unto others. Do I want him giving acquaintances/not real friends a large view into our private life? No. But neither will I outright lie if asked. I would be honest with them just as I'd like them to be honest with me. Sometimes we can stop the rumor mill simply by shaking our heads in disbelief or "wow. I honestly thought better of him than to say that. He's obviously not the person I thought he was at all. But that's good to know, so thank you."

This is a serving suggestion: "Hey Linda, thanks for asking. It's been very hard, and afraid there's been more acrimony than I had hoped for. I want you to know that I understand how hard this can be for our friends, and I respect everyone's friendship with him. I want you to maintain that friendship with him, just as I value your friendship with me. And look, if anything is said that seems off-color or not right, I promise you needn't be afraid to discuss it with me. I promise to help you and all my precious friends to continue to have the relationships they want without being involved in this temporary noise. I really appreciate you."

VERY reasonable, palatable, open and kind. It doesn't press for discussion or demands that anyone choose sides or carry tales.

[moglow]

On the fears of parental alienation, I totally get it. When my parents went through it and for many years after, mother/custodial parent went to great lengths to look like mother of the year at least on the surface. It wasn't that believable when you get right down to it, because she was the abuser and didn't hide as well as she thought. I didn't know until many years later that quite a few people I thought were "on her side" weren't at all. They were on OUR/kids side, doing what they could where they could to help us.

It took a while for me to see that she didn't have friends and a lot of people actually seemed to avoid her completely because of the things she said and did. Through it all, Daddy/alienated parent said not one word against her. He didn't air their dirty laundry, didn't talk smack or share details of their problems, and while he had concerns for us and our well being, he knew he'd be resented [if believed at all] if he interfered. He focused on having a stable safe place for us to land when we were ready. He listened.

All these years later I still look back and appreciate what he must have gone through with that woman.

[rockandhardplace]

moglow, thanks so much for your post. I'm so sorry that you had to go through that. Are you close to either of your parents now?

I try not to say anything negative about their dad, but I am starting to call out negative behaviours. Like when my 8 year old comes to me and says it makes me feel bad when dad compares me to my cousins or when she witnesses him calling me names. I tell her that it wasn't ok but that even adults can do the wrong thing. I just don't think that it's enough to stop them absorbing the horrible things he says to them about me as it's clear my eldest has already and I never even called out his bad behaviour back then. He's managed to get a weirdly subtle level of control over the family. He talks with such authority about everything that I used to completely get sucked into just believing his perspective. He was constantly putting me down, belittling my ideas / perspectives. I feel that they grew up to see me through his eyes. And because we have no family here and in recent years not even much contact with other "normal" families they know no different. I suspect either he's overtly blamed me for our families issues or it's safer to blame me? I know the SG is usually a child, but I feel in our family it was me. There was a stage where I'd be talking to my eldest about something and she'd be looking over at her dad before answering, like she needed to check how he expected her to answer. His most favourite thing is when I talk to her and she makes a sarky comment like "did you read that on your mums facebook group" and looks to him and they'd both crack up laughing at me. Another time when my youngest had a bleeding nose my eldest was saying things like "oh stop being so overprotective I have them all the time" and I was saying that I read that they should get seen if lasts more than 5 hours and he pipes up "you never took eldest to hospital" and she joins in "oh yeah the favourite is more important, got to look after her". She made this presentation once about why we should go to x attraction on holidays instead of y. I said very good, but I still want to see y can we work out how to do both? His response was "we shouldn't trash her idea". Oh and more recently youngest was talking about getting $5 from tooth-fairy and he makes some comment to older ones about it going up in value - knowing they know it was me. It's just any opportunity to put a negative spin on anything I say and do. When our youngest was 3 I decided to keep her in pull up nappies when we went to stay with his parents and I overheard him talking to our eldest saying "there's always some excuse". I have to have dinner with him every night of the week now that he works from home. He tries to monopolise all conversations - only talks to kids. When I do manage to talk to them I can tell his rolling his eyes to the kids.
Is just not playing this nasty game going to be enough in the long run?? What will happen when we separate? Will it escalate and the kids will have to reject me for his approval?? If I wasn't so scared of the alienation and the impact on my youngest I would think it might improve their lives and the differences between our houses and styles of relating and parenting would be clear and my home could be the safe, respectful, calm respite from his chaos. But if he manages to alienate them they will grow up with his toxic way being normalised and thinking their loving mum was useless and didn't love them.

[moglow]

I won't lie, it was bad and mother hasnt improved with time. She drove a hard wedge that took some time to undo. We were at her limited mercy, and I'm sad to say it was easier to go along with her as much as possible or she'd make life a bigger hell. Any indication that we chose sides -other than hers- and we paid dearly.

Daddy passed years ago and way after he was gone she'd still say the most vile things, still fighting that battle in her own mind. Mother ultimately destroyed possibility of us having any real relationship with *her* so there's that. She truly showed us who she is, but it took a long time to fight back.

[escapingman]

moglow, thanks so much for your post. I'm so sorry that you had to go through that. Are you close to either of your parents now?

I try not to say anything negative about their dad, but I am starting to call out negative behaviours. Like when my 8 year old comes to me and says it makes me feel bad when dad compares me to my cousins or when she witnesses him calling me names. I tell her that it wasn't ok but that even adults can do the wrong thing. I just don't think that it's enough to stop them absorbing the horrible things he says to them about me as it's clear my eldest has already and I never even called out his bad behaviour back then. He's managed to get a weirdly subtle level of control over the family. He talks with such authority about everything that I used to completely get sucked into just believing his perspective. He was constantly putting me down, belittling my ideas / perspectives. I feel that they grew up to see me through his eyes. And because we have no family here and in recent years not even much contact with other "normal" families they know no different. I suspect either he's overtly blamed me for our families issues or it's safer to blame me? I know the SG is usually a child, but I feel in our family it was me. There was a stage where I'd be talking to my eldest about something and she'd be looking over at her dad before answering, like she needed to check how he expected her to answer. His most favourite thing is when I talk to her and she makes a sarky comment like "did you read that on your mums facebook group" and looks to him and they'd both crack up laughing at me. Another time when my youngest had a bleeding nose my eldest was saying things like "oh stop being so overprotective I have them all the time" and I was saying that I read that they should get seen if lasts more than 5 hours and he pipes up "you never took eldest to hospital" and she joins in "oh yeah the favourite is more important, got to look after her". She made this presentation once about why we should go to x attraction on holidays instead of y. I said very good, but I still want to see y can we work out how to do both? His response was "we shouldn't trash her idea". Oh and more recently youngest was talking about getting $5 from tooth-fairy and he makes some comment to older ones about it going up in value - knowing they know it was me. It's just any opportunity to put a negative spin on anything I say and do. When our youngest was 3 I decided to keep her in pull up nappies when we went to stay with his parents and I overheard him talking to our eldest saying "there's always some excuse". I have to have dinner with him every night of the week now that he works from home. He tries to monopolise all conversations - only talks to kids. When I do manage to talk to them I can tell his rolling his eyes to the kids.
Is just not playing this nasty game going to be enough in the long run?? What will happen when we separate? Will it escalate and the kids will have to reject me for his approval?? If I wasn't so scared of the alienation and the impact on my youngest I would think it might improve their lives and the differences between our houses and styles of relating and parenting would be clear and my home could be the safe, respectful, calm respite from his chaos. But if he manages to alienate them they will grow up with his toxic way being normalised and thinking their loving mum was useless and didn't love them.

Reading this gives me shivers, you are almost into to smallest detail explaining exactly how things have been in my house with uNPDw, GC and SG. The alienation towards me, SG and my entire family became so bad that I had no choice than to initiate a divorce. During the first 6 months whilst still living together it went worse and worse and in the end GC thought she was running the house together with her mum and could abuse me and SG at will. Any discussion I had with her she was looking around for where her mum were to het validation, if she was in trouble she ran away from me screaming and then hiding behind her mum.

I am not going to lie to you, but after we have separated (uNPDx took GC with her) GC has not spoken to me for over a month and I can only imagine how bad the smearing is. I am on my own with SG now and SG is starting to forgetting all the bad and after an incident yesterday where uNPDx lovebombed her she thinks all will be fine. I have not said a bad word about her mum, maybe I should have? It is very hard to try to stay neutral on the subject, but I do remind her about past behaviours and that she is not safe with her mum at the moment.

As you are asking rockandhardplace, will this pay off in the long run or will the alienation win and in the end I lose both my girls?

[rockandhardplace]

Escaping - I'm not surprised that you see similarities- when I found this site I read an old post of yours and it gave me shivers- I think you were calling out your wife's abuse and she was flipping it.
I don't know what we can do to fight alienation. It's what keeps me so stuck. Living like this is so bad for me and for my kids but I'm so scared of losing them and them growing up thinking their mum didn't love them. Weirdly in my family GC is getting too old to be his supply. She's so busy with friends. Now SG is taking that spot. It's so confusing for my eldest. She used to bully SG with her dad and now he tells her off for that. SG is so happy to finally have his dad's attention he's completely forgotten how awful he was treated. I'm so close to my youngest I couldn't bare for her to come under his spell but there is no joy in our house while we live like this. There was so much joy and laughter when they were little and their dad was out 7-7 every day. Now he works from home and I don't walk on eggshells but I give him nothing so GR he needs to find more and more crazy ways to bait me but mostly he needs the kids for his supply. I can't imagine how bad the denigration of me will get when I leave. Rock and hard place it feels so hopeless.
Have you read Amy Baker's books? Coparenting with a toxic ex is about parental alienation. The hard thing is there is no sure way to stop it. Even in the book she says this might just help delay severe alienation, but it does underline the importance to never give up.