underachieving

[pianissimo]

A big part of my problem these days is this feeling of underachieving. I wondered if and how you are experiencing this.

So, for me, I don't care about underachieving that much, but, I think I have become less functional. In my attempt to match some standard I set for myself, I've been failing to meet minimum standards. But, then, this is actually subjective. It's possible I'm doing fine given my circumstances, and the toxicity of work environment is making me feel this way. Then, again, in relation to what I have been doing, I feel stuck. I feel like changing direction, but, everything feels meaningless. I don't feel like doing anything else.

Do you have any insight?

I actually just checked psychcentral.com about underachievement, and I related to what is said there. And, I actually know I can just do what I'm supposed to do, but I just don't have the motivation to do even that much. It feels pointless. Doing nothing feels more meaningful than doing something for the sake of doing it. As far as I know, this is also a thing about underachievers. In my case, this is a problem because they are chewing me for this at work. Whatever I do feels failure anyways. I have a strong feeling this is more about the toxic work environment. There is no win for me except I meet some unrealistic standard that is ridiculous to set for anyone where I work, and there is too many of them, so I can't assert the reality of the situation. I suppose it feels meaningless to do anything about it, because it kind of is.

Anyways, I would appreciate any thoughts. It could still help if I found some motivation to do something, regardless of how it is perceived at work.

[justducky]

It sounds like you're in a difficult spot, pianissimo. My heart goes out to you.

I think there are two things going on.

1. Managing being in a toxic work environment
2. Feeling apathetic in general

It might be helpful to examine how you feel through those lenses separately. There's likely some overlap.

Please bear with me here. This is off the top of my head.

In a toxic workplace it makes perfect sense to underachieve. Being abused or surrounded by abuse saps motivation. Why would you want to reward abusive coworkers with your time, energy, and talents?

As for your general sense of meaninglessness, I'm right there with you. It's difficult to function when everything feels pointless.

Are there areas in your life that do hold meaning for you? Perhaps you can focus on those in the short term while acknowledging that your job is not satisfactory. Celebrate the parts of your life that have meaning, then revisit your work situation if/when you're ready.

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi Piannisimo,

I agree with what Justducky wrote here too.

You're talking about some things that I think are hitting a lot of people right now. After the last 2 years, it is like a lot of us are looking around going, what is the point of some of these menial tasks I'm doing? We just went through a period of understanding how important our health is, and now we're trying to go back to pretending things are important, that really are not that important after all. It's hard.

Plus maybe you have management at work who are making everything seem important, for whatever reason. People do that sometimes. They fixate on statistics or achievements, it's a way of feeling in control. You probably don't have much power to affect change there, and you are smart to see that.

People who have a health crisis often report back that after wards, they look around with new eyes, and realize oh, some of that stuff isn't important! I wonder how many of us are feeling that now that we've been through several years of worrying about our health.

Then there's the perfectionism that can plague some of us who grew up in PD homes. Children of narcissists can develop a sense of self that is rooted in the perfectionistic beliefs of their PD parents. Untying that takes time and effort as adults. We spent years performing in order to make things work in our FOO. I don't know if that fits for you personally, but in general, I think it is something a lot of books talk about as part of the experience of PD abuse.

There was no reward system for just 'being' and there was no safety to just 'be'. I was in denial about this until quite late into my recovery work. Perfectionism was 'normal' to me for a long time. So then I define "underachieving" as "anything less than perfect". Not good for our mental health as you well know!!

As adults with jobs, we are required to perform, so that can actually add to our own stress when we try to recover from a childhood where we also had to perform. Performing on the job is one thing, but performing in life is another. And if your job place has unrealistic standards, it can trigger you into feeling that same familiar feeling of "oh boy someone else who needs me to jump through a hoop I can't jump through, and even if I do, it won't give me what I need".

Like you said in your post, regardless of how you manage the work situation, the real inner work is about addressing something that isn't working for you.

As humans, we crave meaning. It's not wrong or bad, it is how we are. When that meaning isn't found through our work, we have to find it elsewhere. Creating meaning in our lives is no small challenge. I speak as someone who is still working to figure out where meaning is created for me. It is such a personal mission. No one can use someone else's fire on this front. What creates meaning for you, is personal to you.

We are surrounded by people who don't talk about these things. You can ask them how they create meaning in their life but they won't understand your question. In our dominant culture, sadly, there are a lot of people who find "meaning" in exploiting others, or in making as much money as possible. Those of us who want a more healthy way of creating meaning need to look in hidden corners to see what possibilities there might be for us.

When I've posed your question to various therapists over the years, their answers fall into two camps. One is , "well, then find out what creates meaning for you and pursue that".

The other is, "well sometimes the search for meaning is about learning that you don't have to achieve anything, you can just 'be' and live ,and not focus on what you create or produce or achieve".

Both answers have annoyed me, fyi. Lol.

As the saying goes, the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. Our species has a long history of working to create meaning. Otherwise, what would art be for? On the other hand, we are a species that is good at getting addicted to producing rather than being. We are good at being busy, and giving rewards for producing, especially at work.

My own take on this question is that those of us who feel like we are underachieving, are in touch with some part of ourselves that needs a voice.

If we were all taught from an early age, how to practice appreciating the fact that the sun rises every morning, giving us sunlight no matter what we achieved or what we produced or how much we worked the day before, we might be better prepared to understand our search for meaning once we become older adults (capable of pondering such things). But most of us were not taught anything about inner work as children, so we come to it as adults.

I am glad there are still people who are looking inside and asking themselves these questions. A lot of people I know are just 'turning off' that stuff and going through life without asking themselves any of these sorts of questions at all.

I think that maybe the unrealistic expectations at your workplace have raised some deeper questions in you. This is not a bad thing, but it isn't an easy thing either. I can appreciate your situation. I thought that my meaning in life would come from enjoying strong, healthy family relationships. Boy was I wrong. I don't have those, and never will. I search for meaning elsewhere. It is not easy.

Trees

[justducky]

There was no reward system for just 'being' and there was no safety to just 'be'.

You keep writing statements that hit me like a thunderbolt. Thank you!

I'll be chewing on this and the rest of your reply today. Good stuff. 

[pianissimo]

You keep writing statements that hit me like a thunderbolt.

I would repeat that. Your post gave me a lot to think about treesgrowslowly.

My own take on this question is that those of us who feel like we are underachieving, are in touch with some part of ourselves that needs a voice.

I have heard about being curious about negative feelings, but, in this instance, I forgot that principle. Thanks for reminding me. Experiencing the feeling with this mindset is better. More hopeful.

I suppose it's best if I stay with the feeling.

Justducky, the work thing is a mixture of functionality and satisfaction. These days, it feels like, I'm not functional either. I actually need work to be mundane, to be a routine, but I couldn't attain a routine that could produce output in an acceptable way. Sometimes, it feels like I have skills that do not match what I'm doing, and I have skills I don't feel like using to produce output.

Like treesgrowslowly pointed out, this dynamic is reminiscent of how things were with my father. Until I set a boundary, whenever he talked to me, it was as if he is my boss, and he pushed me to do things I'm incapable of doing. If I'm honest, it's possible I'm stuck now because I tried to walk the path he wanted me to. I wanted to check if I could do it. The circumstances at work now feel like the pressure he has put me under since I was a child. Perhaps, I'm getting some kind of c-PTSD out of this. I'm not doing anything erratic, but perhaps it feels so bad, like suffocating, because of it. Perhaps this is why I feel stuck, perhaps that feeling is coming from the past trauma.

Anyway, thank you all, I will stay with the feeling and see where it goes. Being curious is motivating actually, so thanks for that.

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi Pianissimo,

I can't take credit for these insights I've shared. I learned them over the years - a lot of them in therapy but also from Pete Walker's writing, and other sources along the way that helped me to make sense of everything related to FOG.

I still get flashbacks even after years of working for recovery, and I'm realizing that with c PTSD, it will always be possible to have flashbacks. Hang in there and remind yourself you really are making progress even when it doesn't feel like it. I love this forum because we remind each other of the things that help us to understand FOG, PTSD and recovery. So important to have those reminders!

Trees

[bee well]

Hi Pianissimo,

I'm glad to see the valuable support and insight  you have received here. I don't have a lot to add but I will share a few thoughts. Some of what I am about to say overlaps with other responses.

You have been navigating a toxic work situation. That takes a lot of force. Please give yourself credit for the work you are doing, now, in facing that situation.

When we have the "I am underachieving feeling" it can be useful to put it into context with the various situations in our lives, and try to separate it out between what we can/are reasonably capable of doing, and what we need to do at any given moment. It's easier when we break it down. Me, I have long term goals on the backburner but I try to focus on each day, even if it means forgetting about all else for awhile. This means I don't always reach all of my goals when I would have liked to, but however far off or out of reach they may seem, I have them. I revise my dates whenever possible and necessary. Alot, actually.

It's okay to reach out for help, where it's safe to do so. (Like in this forum. I love this place!)

Sometimes when the inner critic starts berating me about not being motivated, I remember when I was in college, overloaded, worn down by competition and comparing myself to others in that situation (Why am I not achieving more, producing more,  I see others doing so, that kind of self talk). At the same time had no one in my peer group I could talk to, and had no idea what anyone was thinking or feeling about their load, I just assumed they were doing ok. (Looking back I can see this was very toxic.) At one point I said to a counselor "But why can't I carry this (course) load, why am I burning out?" The counselor replied "They are not carrying 'your' load!" (load of life circumstances, or whatever else was important to me in that moment. In essence, they were not me.) It was a reminder of the dangers of comparison, which I think is at the heart of the "I am underachieving feeling."

That phrase  "They are not carrying 'your' load!" has stuck in my head all these years, and has been grounding  in many situations.

I hope you will forgive me for that "back in my days" story. I'm not sure if you will find it relevant, but I just thought I'd put it out there.

Whatever you do, take care, and please be kind to yourself.

[Amadahy]

Hi pianissimo,

You've gotten some golden feedback here!  I just want to share that I had a flash of insight while reading and if it helps you, all the better!

The ONLY thing Nmom ever seemed to "admire" about me was my ability to zip around doing sh*t for her and others.  Multitasking used to be my middle name.  It became a source of pride, I see now.  (Actually, I JUST SAW with this post, so thank you.)  Several years ago, I just crashed.  The combination of a pandemic, job loss, Nmom's decline (where I had to realize I couldn't do anything, no more zip, zip), and some health issues just knocked me in ways I would have never imagined.  I am (slowly) getting back to me, but in it all I realize I am *extraordinarily* tired.  47 years of zip, zip will do that.  Does that resonate in your situation at all?  I don't think I've seen it addressed anywhere, but the deep tiredness I feel is real and looks like (or is related to) apathy or underachievement, as you say.  I find it very hard to give myself grace and patience, but that is precisely what I need.  I hope you can extend a loving eye toward your situation, too.   

[Boat Babe]

Wise, compassionate feedback everyone! My take:

Toxic workplaces: there's the stress of being bullied/manipulated plus the stress that if you walk out you lose your salary/wages. I put up with workplace bullying for years as I had a child and a mortgage. It was horrible. Are you able to jump ship and get another job? Move to a different department within the organisation? Get some support from your Union Rep?

Underachieving:. This is what interests me about your post. The choice of this word rather than any other.  Being an "achiever" is massively overrated and is a product of an economic and social system that praises and rewards those who make it to the "top" by climbing over others. All a bit PD in itself, but that's another discussion. Calling someone else an underachiever is an insult in our current culture.  You are being very, very hard on yourself my dear. It sounds like the current stress at work and any cptsd you may have are impacting on your wellbeing and ability to function. This is not underachieving! You are possibly experiencing depression, anxiety etc with a consequent dip in your executive function. You need to extend some compassion towards yourself rather than judgement. You need to be taking deep breaths and stepping back, if at all possible, from what's happening to you and take stock. Not easy, for sure.

Sending hugs as you navigate this difficult moment. Keep posting.

[pianissimo]

Thanks everyone, your posts have been great support. I might come back and read this thread whenever I feel like this.

I have been thinking about my work, and I can now express what I feel when it feels like I'm failing a little bit more clearly. So, since I realized how abusive was my environment when I was a child, I have had this belief  that, if I did things right this time, I could do better at work (not at the work place, but in my own project). When I feel stuck, this belief translates into a negative one:  Abuse had nothing to do with my perceived underachievement. I failed because I was simply not good. And, now, I'm wasting my time on something that's beyond my limits. Then, I wonder if I should work on less challenging projects. But, when I think of those kinds of projects, I feel apathy. I suppose when the abuse at work combines with my failure, I feel under pressure to sign up for easier projects.

I don't know if you are familiar with the schema therapy, but, to me, what I wrote above seems like the schema of failure. It's possible the abuse at work is triggering the schema and my mind is going between ways to cope with it. For example, the idea of working on easier projects is a surrender response to the schema. Also, it's likely the abuse is getting under my skin because deep down I believe I'm a failure.

Good news is that, I can now see how this schema was getting in my way too. I was identifying with my failures because of the schema. I think the schema is also distorting the way I view work. It's just work. The work doesn't have to say anything about me. I can do whatever I like, whatever works for me.

I think that I have a tendency to view the things I like doing through the lenses of this schema too. So I doubt if I should do them in the first place. I think the schema is giving me a black and white thinking about work related activities.

Boat Babe, it doesn't seem like I can leave work any time soon. Where I live, unions are not strong. About my emphasis on underachievement, well spotted.

Amadahy, my mother didn't want anything from me. Well, she asked for very big favours that were way beyond my capabilities, but, of course, I didn't know that. It's possible my feelings of underachievement and failure are partially linked to this.

bee well, thanks for reminding me to see myself for who I am. I try to tell myself I have my own life experience that gives a particular direction to the path I take, and that I shouldn't feel like a failure (the schema crops up everywhere) if it's different from others' paths. I try to pace my work too, but the situation at work has been getting in the way lately.

treesgrowslowly, I took a look at Pete Walker's book and saved it for reading. Thanks for the mention.

Thank you all!

[1footouttadefog]

This is a word I can relate to so much so It's almost triggering.

Underachiever
I can remember seeing it in so many school progress reports and such over the years.

I always scored quite high on tests, especially standardized tests.  However I am A. D. D and dyslexic so my grades on assignments were often lower than my test scores would indicate they should be.

This caused me to be labeled an underachiever.  To make matters worse, no one helped me figure out these things until I was in college and I saught help to become a faster reader and the reading lab folks sent me for some testing etc.

I am a fairly chill and definitely not a Type A personality. However, I do have a decent work ethic and integrity so I do try to be an excellent worker especially when working for others.

Around the house and such I am finding I am not achieving up to my own standards.  Personally I think part of this is related to my having become too easily distracted from real life by the internet and such.  Additionally the emotional toll of two covid years at the same time my pdh spouse was having huge issues is to be considered Ann some bad habits and couch potato-ism need remediated. 

I do feel like that I am on a better path for now.  I hope you find your forward momentum also. 

For now I make a list of what is bare minimum for r each day and silently rejoice if I get anything beyond that done.

To help I am trying to put real off time I to my schedule.  I am not truly off work if I am home.  So I am putting ihtings on the Calendar.  Day trips, overnights at camp grounds and such as that. 

I am also trying to put some TV or reading time in place for evenings.  Basically even though I work for myself, I am trying to have more structure.  I feel like in this way I will have more to show for my work time,  by actually seeing what came of my off time.  I hope that makes sense.

This past few weeks I have found myself making progress beyond the bare minimum and that is nice.  Perhaps I will move into finishing up odds and ends and old projects.  That will really brighten things for me as there is an overwhelming backlog and I cannot even solve it by hiring someone and throwing money at it all. 

One positive thing for me has been to break things I to smaller bites so I can squeeze things in more easily.  It helps me procrastinate less and helps redice perfectionism and over planning etc.

Instead of remodel bathroom, it's now change nasty looking faucet and fix wiggly towel rack.  Even these smaller chunks help as small stresses add up when they are all over the place and encountered in daily life. 

I hope you find a way to be at peace with your accomplishments as enough and that you find away to get the momentum you need to operate at a level that seems right for you and your circumstances. 

[pianissimo]

I can remember seeing it in so many school progress reports and such over the years.

I always scored quite high on tests, especially standardized tests.  However I am A. D. D and dyslexic so my grades on assignments were often lower than my test scores would indicate they should be.

I relate to your feelings a lot too 1footouttadefog. I can't imagine the pressure you felt when you had to do things in a way that wasn't accommodating your needs. As far as I know, I'm neurotypical, but I find the education system difficult to navigate too. Looking back, I can see that it's structured for a segment of society. So, I have been trying to give myself what it felt like I was deprived of as a child: time, understanding, lenience, and encouragement. But, no tangible output yet. Well, I guess I'm still learning, and I can see the progress I have made, but I do need some kind of output to show for.

The thing about these kinds of environments is (add narcissism to that), it doesn't allow you to explore yourself in a healthy way. I think this is a big part of the reason I give too much weight to failure in defining myself. In the past, failure defined who I am in some way or another. No wonder I'm still doing this without realizing. Also, I think, most societies tend to scapegoat people who fail in some way. At schools, kids who act up are treated as if there is something demonic about them, or those who don't do well are treated as if there is laziness is in their nature. I went through an education system that was harsh on kids. It's bothering me to see this mindset is lingering at work.

Many thanks for the encouragement. Fingers crossed : )