Is it worth saying how I feel?

[MIB]

Hi everyone,

I'm looking for some advice from those who understand. My situation is this:

I was VvvvvvvvLC with my parents before my Dad died a year ish ago. Dad was an enabler for sure, had diagnosed PTSD, and was likely an undiagnosed narc. Mom is almost certainly a PD, likely Borderline or histrionic. I'm am only child and my mom is a housewife who literally had no useful life management skills (she cooked and cleaned, Dad literally did everything else) and so I helped her sell dad's business (which was *a lot * of work under time pressure), planned the funeral, helped her with her finances. She bombarded me night and day for months with all kinds of urgent questions/demands.

Out of the goodness of my heart, I had daily text contact with her and we video called once a week.

Fast forward to a few months ago when my 92 year old grandmother had a fall and my mother basically threw up her hands, tapped out of helping, then had the nerve to say to me that I should "have compassion for my family", then suggested that karma would get me.

Boy, was I pissed. So I blocked her for 2 months.

She then sent me a birthday card with some gift cards in it - honestly the most thoughtful things she's done for me in ages (sad but true). I unblocked her to say thanks. She has been keeping a tolerable distance but wants to start video calling again, which I was vaguely receptive to.

What I would really like to do one time is ask her, "do you think you're a good friend?" Friends help each other, take an interest in the other person, takes their feelings into account etc...it's a reciprocal relationship. My relationship with my mother is none of that - she honestly just takes - and I'm wondering if this simple question (that I could ask my five year old and get a somewhat meaningful answer) might spark a fruitful discussion, or at least be productive in helping me share how I feel and therefore why we aren't close (because I honestly don't think she knows why)?

Has anyone had success with this type of approach, or something else? While I'm not optimistic it would make any difference, I wonder if it just needs to be said for my own sake.

Thank you for your insight,
MIB

[notrightinthehead]

Hmmm, what would you want to find out with such a question?  If you would want to make her think about her behaviour, have a deep conversation, and make her change her ways - you will probably be disappointed. If you want to clarify for yourself (once again) that you are dealing with a self centered person, who cannot meet you as an equal, but instead uses you and manipulates you - you will probably be able to confirm that (once again). Sometimes we need to do that in order to finally believe it. I know, I had to with my husband.
Whatever you decide to do, have some kindness and patience for yourself. It's not easy to be an emotionally healthy person with such a background and you have your own child and yourself to protect.

[feralcat]

Hi MIB.
The quote you chose for under your avatar says it all. I'm sorry, but she won't improve. Been there, tried it.
If you have an honest conversation the best you'll get is evidence that she won't/can't see anyone else's point of view apart from her own. And , painfully (or clarifyingly) her view of you. And then you'll have to decide where to proceed from then on. I had a small convo with my MOO recently, in a compassionate but clear manner. She wriggled like a worm on a hook. Excuses, blaming others, 'not remembering'. Then aggression. She didn't tell me anything I hadn't already worked out. Interesting to hear things said out loud, but I know it will change naaaaathing. Apart from ramping up the waifing, side order of smearing ? 

And the longer you talk to her, the more she'll try to revert your relationship back to what it was.
Ps . For someone who's so bad at sorting things she seems to have managed ok whilst you were NC ? My exMIL similarly said she couldn't handle anything (and she was a deputy head mistress. Hmm). When FIL died all of a sudden she could. Moved house, joined a bridge club etc etc.

[NarcKiddo]

Up to you, obviously, but before you do anything I suggest you consider very carefully what you think you would get out of it.

You might like to check out Dr Ramani on You Tube. She has various videos on why you should never call out a narcissist and they make a lot of sense. Your mother may or may not be a narc but Dr R's points are good and worth listening to.

In terms of her not knowing why you aren't close - if you explain it, do you think she will understand? Or do you run the risk of her justifying her actions and blaming you? The whole thing could blow up in your face. Are you prepared to deal with a possibly very ugly conversation so that you can at least know you said what you wanted to say? I am not trying to dissuade you as such, but you do need to be prepared for the unexpected and unpleasant and possibly be prepared to go NC again.

[Liketheducks]

It IS worth saying how you feel....to a trusted friend.....posting here.....a therapist......in an unsent letter......

But, I don't think you'll get the response your looking for from mom.     Unfortunately, that sad fact is the reason most of us are here.      I'm so sorry.

[Starboard Song]

What I would really like to do one time is ask her, "do you think you're a good friend?" Friends help each other, take an interest in the other person, takes their feelings into account etc...it's a reciprocal relationship. My relationship with my mother is none of that - she honestly just takes - and I'm wondering if this simple question (that I could ask my five year old and get a somewhat meaningful answer) might spark a fruitful discussion, or at least be productive in helping me share how I feel and therefore why we aren't close (because I honestly don't think she knows why)?

I think conversations like this can be very valuable: PDs are not a binary condition, and they are not all the same and it is entirely possible to at least bend their path a little.

But I wouldn't start with that question.

Asking "do you think you are a good friend" is only a setup for "I need to let you know you are NOT a good friend." That won't go well. It offers a hurtful generalization about her that is framed as definitive: it isn't about her behavior but about who she is. Like short-term blocking of her out of anger, it is not well-engineered to earn her trust and win her adoption of a better way.

Instead, focus on some things that you NEED from a relationship. Some things you really APPRECIATE and would like MORE of. Such a framing would say "you are my mother, and I want more of you, because you can be good. I am sharing my needs with you because I care about you." It is well-engineered to breed mutual respect and trust.

Will it make things better? No single conversation will. But strong modeling of good behavior, along with watertight boundaries can certainly make a change. And a little change can keep VLC from becoming NC.

[treesgrowslowly]

I agree with the other replies.

If she doesn't have self-awareness, then in her mind, someone is to blame for her behaviours - but it's not her....

In my experience: They will blame you for all the things you "do" that make it "impossible" for them to be the wonderful person they actually are. Eye roll. None of this is true of course, but it is how they will spin the conversation about their behaviours.

If someone doesn't have a clear self-concept, trying to have honest discussions with them about their own behaviour, can just lead to more upset for you to deal with afterwards. If you do talk to her, make a plan for yourself, on your own after care and how you will help yourself to deal with her reaction.

Trees

[Cat of the Canals]

I'm with Starboard Song, in that the conversation may certainly be worth having, but the particular question might need some rewording. The PDs I know would feel put on the spot -- and thus get defensive -- if asked that question.

If there's any hope for a good outcome, I think you're better off being more direct. Like Starboard suggested: stating what things you need/want from a healthy relationship with your mom. And perhaps even addressing the elephant in the room: "When Grandma fell and you told me I needed to have compassion for the family, that felt really unfair and hurt my feelings."

[MIB]

Thank you everyone for taking the time to reply.  I have read them all and taken some time to reflect.

I also had a video call with my mother this weekend for the first time in 2 months. It was no different than before - all about her, and very surface. Any information about me or my family was volunteered by me - not a single question about us was asked. In fact, when I told her about my son's school report card and how well he did on it (he's 7 years old), she actually responded by telling me about the subjects she is interested in and would like to study  ....

That incident reminded me of when I recently told her, "I don't feel like you take any interest whatsoever in me or my family" and she simply replied, "oh that's not true" and changed the subject (I think a normal, healthy person would say, "oh I'm so sorry you feel that way! What have I done to make you feel like that?"... or something similar.)

So I do think it's a lost cause. I also think the choice to be vvvvLC is a good one - saves me an hour each week of listening to a pointless, frustrating monologue.

I do know though that disappointed feelings about her and our relationship will pop up from time to time. Perhaps that's when journaling/unsent letters can come in handy.

Thank you to everyone who took the time to respond. You really helped. Hugs.