Dad giving money to brother

[p123]

Now don't get me wrong I don't need his money but this has annoyed me a bit.

Brother (we don't speak) has a bit of a chequered history with Dad. He'd not visit for months on end. Last few years when hes moved closer to Dad hes visited quite a lot - even more so when theres been money to be had off Dad (they tried to claim carers allowance off the government once!) One of the reasons I fell out with brother is he expected me to visit as many times as he did (I live miles got kids etc).

So probably last 20 years I've visited Dad and done loads for him. Brother as I said, it comes in waves of all or nothing.

Last few years as a lot of you know, I've stopped putting up with his crap so much and scaled things back....

I do some of Dads banking so can see what goes in and out. There are charges to garages for repairs (Dad doesnt drive or have a car!) and quite a few ATM transactions which Dad couldn't have done (i.e. few miles away). I do shopping for Dad and hes recently been asking me to "get him £100" out of the ATM.

Its obvious this money is going to my brother. I asked him about the £200 garage bill making out I wanted to check it wasnt fraudulent and he got flustered....

Thing is I don't want or need his money. Brother has a decent job too so not sure why he thinks he needs the money?
I'm just a bit peed off with Dad that this has turned into "whoever visits me mosts gets paid" sort of thing. Especially when I think of all the years I did this when you couldn't rely on brother.

Of course, know this is a narc thing- hes happy to pay the highest bidder to do what he wants.... I don't visit as much and have made it clear things aren't changing so its pointless "buying" my services.

I am a bit hurt by it all though.... Makes me want to say to him that Im not visiting at all.

Got to be fair I look at Dad now and what hes become and I am ashamed of him and the way he behaves. There is no way I'm going to be like that when I'm old.

[Boat Babe]

Hey P123. This is yet another attempt at manipulation on your disordered dad's part. If you can see it as that, and name it, then it loses some of its sting. It's obviously a shitty thing to do, but no more or less shitty than tying up the resources of the NHS on fake calls. The man is ghastly! Luckily you have your own career and income so he can't really get to you this way, not in real material terms.  I honestly think the best thing you can do is laugh at this point. I'm not being flippant either.

[Hazy111]

Im not a Christian, but didnt Jesus deal with this issue in the parable about the " prodigal son "

[nanotech]

It sounds as if this could be a reaction to your recent boundary laying.
They often look for an indirect way to react that will be hurtful.  The best thing is to show no emotion, to be unreactive.
When I placed or strengthened a boundary, or gave/ give my dad an intentional disappointment ( see Jerry  Wise) my UNPDdad finds a way to reward the toxic members of my family of origin, then  he makes sure I find out about it!
It used to annoy me, it doesn't now.
Intentional disappointments/ the latest one being his lack of a Father's  Day present. I sent him a card. I was ill that weekend,   so couldn't visit him.  Instead of doing what I usually do if I can't see him, I just sent a card. I used to spend ages searching for the most unique( often expensive)  present and then pay extra to have it delivered. Only to have him criticise  either;
The gift itself
How it was packaged
How it was delivered
Followed by;
What gift he would have preferred
How the delivery should have
been conducted
How they could improve on the packaging
Why the present wasn't very good ( even if he'd said he had wanted the item previously)

The criticisms would be repeated for weeks and weeks. Sometimes they'd be little digs( the balloon was on a stick/m and wasn't helium.
The box was SOOOOO hard to open and 'it took me 20 minutes trying different utensils/ scissors!'
The card was 'too big'
The delivery 'made me jump ' 

So this year? I saved time, money and emotional wrangling. Just a card from the corner shop.
Guess what- NO criticism!
Later on in the month though,  a detailed mention of an outing with the favoured PD family members, my NPD sister's  offspring.
Me:
' ahhh that's good dad.'
Still no mention from me that I'm dashing up there with a belated gift.  Alas for dad,  no guilt buttons pressed, not these days. Not any longer.

He's confused.

[p123]

Hey P123. This is yet another attempt at manipulation on your disordered dad's part. If you can see it as that, and name it, then it loses some of its sting. It's obviously a shitty thing to do, but no more or less shitty than tying up the resources of the NHS on fake calls. The man is ghastly! Luckily you have your own career and income so he can't really get to you this way, not in real material terms.  I honestly think the best thing you can do is laugh at this point. I'm not being flippant either.

Well yeh I don't need the money but its the way hes doing it..... Know what you mean though.

[p123]

Im not a Christian, but didnt Jesus deal with this issue in the parable about the " prodigal son "

Ha ha yes. Not sure I ever understood how that was right though? lol

[p123]

It sounds as if this could be a reaction to your recent boundary laying.
They often look for an indirect way to react that will be hurtful.  The best thing is to show no emotion, to be unreactive.
When I placed or strengthened a boundary, or gave/ give my dad an intentional disappointment ( see Jerry  Wise) my UNPDdad finds a way to reward the toxic members of my family of origin, then  he makes sure I find out about it!
It used to annoy me, it doesn't now.
Intentional disappointments/ the latest one being his lack of a Father's  Day present. I sent him a card. I was ill that weekend,   so couldn't visit him.  Instead of doing what I usually do if I can't see him, I just sent a card. I used to spend ages searching for the most unique( often expensive)  present and then pay extra to have it delivered. Only to have him criticise  either;
The gift itself
How it was packaged
How it was delivered
Followed by;
What gift he would have preferred
How the delivery should have
been conducted
How they could improve on the packaging
Why the present wasn't very good ( even if he'd said he had wanted the item previously)

The criticisms would be repeated for weeks and weeks. Sometimes they'd be little digs( the balloon was on a stick/m and wasn't helium.
The box was SOOOOO hard to open and 'it took me 20 minutes trying different utensils/ scissors!'
The card was 'too big'
The delivery 'made me jump ' 

So this year? I saved time, money and emotional wrangling. Just a card from the corner shop.
Guess what- NO criticism!
Later on in the month though,  a detailed mention of an outing with the favoured PD family members, my NPD sister's  offspring.
Me:
' ahhh that's good dad.'
Still no mention from me that I'm dashing up there with a belated gift.  Alas for dad,  no guilt buttons pressed, not these days. Not any longer.

He's confused.

Do you know what nothing would surprise me anymore......

Last night he even said "Get me £50 out". Then mentioned "Im helping your brother out with money"...... More like supplying him with more beer tokens!
Like you said he's made sure I knew about it.

Then he had the cheek to say "If you want, I can help you out too but you must be earning loads because you're always so busy".

Nuts. It came over as a sort of "you too can have money if you fall back in line"

To be honest, replied "yes I am busy with work and the kids"

[NarcKiddo]

Then he had the cheek to say "If you want, I can help you out too but you must be earning loads because you're always so busy".

Nuts. It came over as a sort of "you too can have money if you fall back in line"

To be honest, replied "yes I am busy with work and the kids"

That's exactly what he was saying. I might have suggested he keep his money and put it in a taxi fund for his hospital trips!

Narcs absolutely know the power of money in my experience. My mother gives/lends a lot of money to my sister - but boy does she pay for that. "He who pays the piper calls the tune." My mother is the last person in the world I would ask for money. I will accept a gift but a loan of any kind? Forget it.

[Starboard Song]

Im not a Christian, but didnt Jesus deal with this issue in the parable about the " prodigal son "

No. The prodigal son returned home broken and impoverished, and expected to be scolded. Instead he was welcomed home with a celebration, and shown cordial love. Lesson: we should not a maintain hardened hearts against those who have been weak.

An analogy to p123s situation would be the prodigal son never coming home chastened, and just continuing to leech off the father in perpetuity, and Dad funding the ongoing prodigal lifestyle. That is not the story Jesus addressed with the disciples.

[Starboard Song]

p123, I think you need to be absolutely sure your father understands the magnitude of these transactions and approves of them.

It doesn't sound like they've been directly addressed with either your father or brother. When Dad got flustered over the 200 garage bill, did you learn why? Maybe he didn't want to admit they were going on. Maybe, though, he didn't want to do the hard work of dealing with it.

I think you need to draw up a complete list of such charges for, say, 90 days. Bring these to your Dad and make it direct: "Dad, I know you are very careful and responsible with your money. I know you don't ever want to waste or lose any. I've drawn up a list of suspicious transactions totalling 1,856 from just the last 90 days. That's over 7,000 a year! I think we should make sure they are real and proper. Let's review them together." Get an answer.

If the answer is that he doesn't mind your brother taking that money, then it matters: is he well-funded enough that he will never need your financial assistance? If he is not, this needs to stop. But of course, that isn't your decision. But you can make sure he understands that you will not provide financial assistance if he squanders the resources he has from his fixed income. Not ever.

There is a real chance he doesn't understand the magnitude of this leak, and will want to put a stop to it. Even then, a direct conversation with your brother wouldn't be out of line.

[Poison Ivy]

 
My sister has lived with our mom since the beginning of the pandemic. Mom doesn't pay sister but does pay for lots of things for her and has also changed her estate plan so that instead of everything being given in equal shares to the four children (me and my siblings), my sister will get the house and also one-fourth of everything else.

What my mom is doing makes sense and is fair. That said, she also seems a bit narcissistic, and she does like to demonstrate that she is still relevant and needed by giving gifts of money to me and my brothers. I don't like feeling beholden to her or as though I am not an independent adult, and I typically decline the offers of gifts, other than the traditional check on my birthday and at Christmas.

[moglow]

P123, I had to remove myself from any responsibility of what mommie dearest does with her money. At this point I have a general idea how much she gets from retirement etc every month and it's more than I make working. That said, she's without question frittered it away on all kinds of senseless buying and I know she's also given away to one of my cousins in particular. If she's giving and cousin is accepting, that's between them. I don't know how much, don't care to know. Her money, her stuff. I've seen that hoardfest she lives in and personally I think when she's gone we need to burn it all to the ground rather than try and sort through it. When she's offered to me I've turned her down - I can't and won't let responsibility for any of that be mine to carry on any level.

[lkdrymom]

Next time dad calls for something suggest he pay brother to do it for him.  You know, because you are so busy.  He straight up told you he was punishing you for not doing everything he wanted.  Time for one more giant step back.

[p123]

p123, I think you need to be absolutely sure your father understands the magnitude of these transactions and approves of them.

It doesn't sound like they've been directly addressed with either your father or brother. When Dad got flustered over the 200 garage bill, did you learn why? Maybe he didn't want to admit they were going on. Maybe, though, he didn't want to do the hard work of dealing with it.

I think you need to draw up a complete list of such charges for, say, 90 days. Bring these to your Dad and make it direct: "Dad, I know you are very careful and responsible with your money. I know you don't ever want to waste or lose any. I've drawn up a list of suspicious transactions totalling 1,856 from just the last 90 days. That's over 7,000 a year! I think we should make sure they are real and proper. Let's review them together." Get an answer.

If the answer is that he doesn't mind your brother taking that money, then it matters: is he well-funded enough that he will never need your financial assistance? If he is not, this needs to stop. But of course, that isn't your decision. But you can make sure he understands that you will not provide financial assistance if he squanders the resources he has from his fixed income. Not ever.

There is a real chance he doesn't understand the magnitude of this leak, and will want to put a stop to it. Even then, a direct conversation with your brother wouldn't be out of line.

Oh he understand the money all right. He writes down on a piece of paper EVERY outgoing then checks it against the statement he gets in the post. Without fail.
Things is he has close to £30K in his account  so hes never running out.

Yeh he got flustered because I found out what he was doing. He knew that I knew that he'd let brother have him pay for his car repairs. Now, like I said, he doesnt seem to care. Complete 360 - maybe a new tactic - and he almost shoves it in my face. Sort of like a "you too can have a bit of this if you visit me more often".

Im not going to do that because, in the my main part, with my other commitments its impossible. It just rankles with me that Dad thinks he can buy my time, and that I'd be willing to let down my own kids to do this as well.

Its just so sad that when he goes my memories of his last 10 years of life are going to be acts like this.... Thats what upsets me a lot.

[p123]

Next time dad calls for something suggest he pay brother to do it for him.  You know, because you are so busy.  He straight up told you he was punishing you for not doing everything he wanted.  Time for one more giant step back.

Ha ha yeh good plan. I already get "your brother is so good to me". And worse still "Oh A (brothers wife) is so good to me, she comes to visit, she bakes me cakes".
Yeh she can smell the money. Sometimes it reminds me of what do they call it in nature, symbiotic, where one animal leaches off another but the first one doesnt mind because they get something out of the deal too.

[Spring Butterfly]

It's his money and thanks to this Toolbox topic removing myself from others personal affairs helped me so I'll share the link with you to review
My Stuff / Your Stuff

[p123]

Thanks.... I know I know I know its his money....

Its just annoying knowing hes feeding this money to brother all the time..... and still expecting me to play the dutiful son and visit all the time.
It makes it so that I dont want to visit to be honest.

The saddest thing is when he does finally go I'm not going to remember him with fond memories I'm going to remember all these damn awful stunts hes pulled in later life.

[Outsiderchild]

That's true for everyone.  You have a lot of company.   No one will be sad when our PD parents pass on.   I know I will have two emotions, first one is relief and I'm not sure what to call the second one.   What's the name for that peculiar mixture of grief, loneliness, apathy, anger that a child of a PD parent has when we have to deal with the fact that we NEVER had the parent any child deserves and that we NEVER will.  I'm trying to let go of this self-destructive hope now, for my own health.  When I read about other members' PD's passing and they seem to have a balanced, healthy response I am inspired to do the work and hopeful that my parent's last toxic gift won't be successful in hurting me the rest of my life. 

[Hazy111]

Outsiderchild. "Orphans in all but name."  "A child cannot raise a child"

[1footouttadefog]

If I remember correctly, It was not so long ago you spoke of your father having in the 40's in savings.  So he is indeed spending it down. 

Either way, you dont have to own the consequences.  I would let bro kn now Dad will ne living with him when he becomes penniless.