Oppositionality and contrarian behavior as invalidation

[Unbroken1]

In my 23 years of being in a relationship and marriage with a high-conflict person, in instances where I might encounter conflict or a problem (usually work-related), my UcommunalNPD ex-wife frequently would find ways to suggest I was at fault, when I would look to her for emotional support. I now realize this was a covert invalidation technique in her arsenal of scapegoating tools. Along with making passive-aggressive comments about me to others in my presence, she would also argue about idiotically obvious questions (for example, what shade of blue the sky was, or even if it was blue).

Killing spontaneity was another specialty of hers. For example, any spur of the moment ideas I might have were generally met with "Well, you know me - Miss Logical. I'll need to think about it. But as you also know, I usually agree!" The waiting period before knowing what her response was might last anywhere from a few hours to a few days. Now I understand this behavior to be a coercive control mechanism meant to dominate and exert power.

I can remember only once in my many attempts to get some kind of emotional support from her, that she was actually able to express emotional support in a similar instance where a work colleague of mine engaged in toxic behavior directly affecting me. But by that time, the marriage had already ended, and she was cheerfully focused on creating the public narrative for our friends and acquaintances that the divorce was mutually agreed-upon, amicable and that we remained "good friends," of course, which was a complete load of BS.

Has anyone else experienced this type of covert stonewalling and withholding?

[losingmyself]

Probably 100% of us.
Congratulations for getting out!

[Unbroken1]

Thanks for the validation. Since my ex initiated the divorce, it's taken me years to understand how fortunate I was, despite the high cost to me in terms of my sanity and finances. And if I were still married, my health issues that appeared just prior to the divorce might very well have turned out be far more serious. I truly believe my UNPDMIL established the pattern with her husband, who died from Parkinson's. I wonder if any academic studies have ever looked at a possible connection between that disease and the long-term effects of NPD-induced trauma as a freeze response.

[Cat of the Canals]

my UcommunalNPD ex-wife frequently would find ways to suggest I was at fault, when I would look to her for emotional support.

My NPD/BPD mom told me I needed to "try harder to get along" when I was being bullied as a child. Really, any problem I had was met with zero sympathy and the order that I needed to "try harder" or "do better" or "fix it."

she would also argue about idiotically obvious questions (for example, what shade of blue the sky was, or even if it was blue).

She also frequently argues with enDad about stupid details like that. If he describes seeing a car that was the "brightest purple he's ever seen," she'll interrupt to say, "It wasn't THAT bright. And it was more maroon than purple." Or if he says, "There had to be 40 geese on the lake!" She'll loudly correct him. "There were NOT 40. Maybe 35."

The funny thing is that she exaggerates and uses hyperbole more than anyone else I know. For some reason, she can't stand when my dad does it and very loudly and publicly "sets him straight."

So yes, this is all very familiar.

[IsleOfSong]

Or if he says, "There had to be 40 geese on the lake!" She'll loudly correct him. "There were NOT 40. Maybe 35."

Oof, I'm feeling this. My uNPDw once told me it hadn't rained when just five minutes earlier I had watched rain fall from the sky.

Unbroken1, how did you manage to have her initiate the divorce, you lucky guy?

[Unbroken1]

I guess I'm still dealing with the after effects of the divorce, still self-questioning about my role and accountability for my behavior (ie, reactive abuse). In my naivety, I did everything I could to "save" the marriage and was surprised when she agreed at my insistence to get her own  therapist. Eventually she accused our couples therapist of siding with me, and quit attending sessions.

I think her decision to initiate the split came about when she realized that the lead-up to the discard wasn't getting her the results she wanted, which was to make me so miserable with her sniping and leakage of repressed anger that I would do the dirty work for her and start the divorce myself. That way, she could create a Victim persona for herself in her narrative. Since she was the gregarious and popular one in the relationship, and had also morphed into a church lady in public, I was screwed from the get-go if I made any noise about the insanity she was creating in private. She was also busy triangulating me with mutual acquaintances and assembling a group of supporting Flying Monkeys. I don't know how long she planned it but probably had been thinking about how to do it for some time. There was a whole other person I never knew who emerged during this time and I was stunned at the viciousness that she was capable of.

Happenstance played a part in the timing, though. We are both self employed and in the previous year, she had lost 2 or 3 clients and I think she panicked, realized how to kill two birds with one stone, and then initiated a campaign to recover $30k from me for the times when business was slow and she had to cover for me when the mortgage or bills were due. Unbeknownst to me, she had been keeping score over the years. During the initial meeting with the attorney from our church who magnanimously agreed to mediate the case, I brought up the fact that I had paid $60k out of pocket for half the down payment on the house, she actually had the gall to say she always intended to pay me back. That was the first time I heard her say anything like that in the 15 years since we bought the house.

The divorce process only lasted 6 months, so I realize I am lucky there as well. She prioritized getting out over exacting revenge (there was plenty of sadism towards me on her part, though). But emotionally, it was like being thrown from a moving car and then having the driver stop and back up a few times to make sure the job was finished.

[square]

The self questioning process can be tricky.

It's a valuable process. We can grow as people, possibly quite a bit.

But the hard part is untangling what we truly need to look at ourselves for from the voices implanted in our heads by those who have sought to control us. They have distorted images of us (and loudly proclaim those imagesto us over and over), and our behavior around them was distorted due to their disordered tactics.

Still, we can rebalance ourselves and, in calm and peace, decide how we will better conduct ourselves should we find ourselves in a situation where someone is attempting to exploit, control, or scapegoat us - such as MC/noJADE and removing ourselves from the situation posthaste.

[Unbroken1]

My self-questioning is part of my character - but I also know that it is the result of being gaslit over long periods of time by my uNPD/uBPD parents and uNPD ex wife. So my innate curiosity sometimes gets unconsciously switched with my inner critic and it's off to the self-doubt races, with Gaslighter (Doubt) usually finishing by a nose over Truthteller (Intuition).

But, I've come to learn that "No" is a complete sentence and works on all types disordered personalities but the one that is the most pernicious, is the inner critic. Does not like that word, no sir, not one bit. It will take the rest of my life to silence that one, I think.

[HadleyBird]

Hi @Unbroken1
Thanks for sharing your experience. You are not alone.

My ex with BPD was one of the most lovely partners I ever had. It took me a while to begin to notice the subtle behaviors she would use to dismiss me or pick at me.

For example, she would often show disdain for clothes I picked out for her, furniture I liked, art I liked. She was dismissive of many things I liked. It was subtle.

She would also make prickly or snappy comments, and would get annoyed with me easily. Sometimes I'd call her out for them, sometimes I'd let them go. Eventually she told me she needs a partner that has more "grit," more of an ability to snap back at her at the same level when she snaps at me. When I did stand up for myself, I did it in too nice of a way. ...Ultimately I learned that she was used to fighting regularly with past partners, and when I didn't snap back at her, she began to feel guilty for her mean behavior. She said she didn't like who she was becoming.

[Unbroken1]

HadleyBird: my XuNPDW leaked anger and contempt for me in much the same way, particularly during the final discard phase when she finally realized I wasn't going to accept the abuse any longer. Her tendency towards passive-aggressive acting out was always a part of this and I understand now that she was an expert at 1. baiting/provoking me into the same circular argument, ad infinitum; 2. Mocking and belittling me/showing contempt/invalidation for me when I would take the bait. This was no doubt a dependable way to get a nonstop source of negative supply.

All through the relationship, we had "fair fights" (she would even brag about this to friends) which were based on honestly airing our differences and trying to manage the outcome based on guidance from our CBT therapist. This was a huge mistake, now that I know NPD individuals use CBT as opportunities to discover the weaknesses and vulnerabilities of their partners so they can later weaponize the knowledge against them.

Now that my nervous system is learning to relax and and is unlearning the hypervigilance that dominated my existence in this relationship, I can see the arguments were manipulations meant to establish dominance and control by constantly keeping me off balance and walking on eggshells. I used to take a maladaptive pride in putting up a spirited defense in these sometimes loud and verbally violent occasions.

Now I would gray rock a person or situation like this since I understand so much more about the high-conflict personality of the narcissist. Living with one for two decades left me with re-triggered C-PTSD, heart problems and arthritis from the daily stress and angst of living with someone who is addicted to creating conflict and drama in their close relationships.

[easterncappy]

Or if he says, "There had to be 40 geese on the lake!" She'll loudly correct him. "There were NOT 40. Maybe 35."

Oof, I'm feeling this. My uNPDw once told me it hadn't rained when just five minutes earlier I had watched rain fall from the sky.

Unbroken1, how did you manage to have her initiate the divorce, you lucky guy?

My dad once denied an earthquake. They're not super common here, but the entire house shook and it made the news. Everyone was talking about the earthquake. But just because I was the first person to bring it up, he denied that it happened.

My parents both loved to invalidate me. A lot of it was "devil's advocate" type of stuff, and in really inappropriate situations. For example, I was in an abusive relationship for years... whenever I opened up to my parents about it, my mom said things like "well... you chose him!" and my dad decided that really, I'm "putting that poor boy through hell". They had a way of siding with every abusive partner I had, and immediately despising the few neutral or good ones I've had (they think that my husband is the worst human being to have ever walked the earth). It was really backwards but I think that on some level, they wanted me to have a dysfunctional marriage too, so I'd never leave their cult. Plus, it probably felt good to make me feel bad and like I was in the wrong.

I could never just come to them with an issue and get emotional support, the way people from healthy families can. Everything was always my fault and their advice was always either really condescending and mean, or absolute nonsense... which was often condescending and mean too.

[sunshine702]

Yeah Emotional Support.  This is a key component a lot of us would like in a spouse.  And sometimes we don't get it.  It hurts. I experience that too.  Especially about work situations.  I want my partner to be a loving sounding board.  I am not saying dump all over him and take no responsibility for my response but to be my better half in this game of life.  To lovingly empathize for a bit.   Yeah for some reason that is a big block in my relationships too.  He just can not go there.  I suspect he is being bullied at work and really has a firewall up.  I get help from a website about workplace bullying THEY get it.  Gary Namie is the moderator.  His WorkPlace bullying  Institute.   I highly recommend.  Toxicity can be incredibly bad for your health yes while the divorce may be painful you might have had health problems if exposed to both toxic work sometimes and toxic home.

[Seeking_Peace]

Oh boy, where do I begin? I have a relative who I recently began NC with, who engaged in these behaviors. Sadly, I wasn't too privy to this until recently.

I remember I sought help from her in my 20s for a big breakup. I just remember her saying "He never looked truly happy in the photos of you two. He looks so happy with his new GF." Then, when I started dating my (now) DH, she tried vilifying him to the rest of my family. Joke is on her when she finds out we eloped. 

This relative also liked to criticize my dietary preferences, also shaming me in a restaurant for removing a specific vegetable: "Ugh, how do you not like (vegetable)? You're weird." Then would question me as though it was new information.

Curious if you ever experienced a form of waffling? For instance, my relative loved complaining/speculating about people one week, then the next would become buddy-buddy with them. Just so bizarre and illogical.

[Fae Greenwood]

Along with making passive-aggressive comments about me to others in my presence, she would also argue about idiotically obvious questions (for example, what shade of blue the sky was, or even if it was blue).

I was desperately looking for anything innocuous but positive to say and blurted out about how the sky was a beautiful shade of blue. The response? "No it's not." That led to a useless conversation about whether or not a wisp of cloud made the entire sky not-blue. Sometimes I think some of you are riding in my backseat.

I always must be wrong even when it doesn't matter. Yes it is invalidating. And really stupid on his part. He literally ruined our marriage and my love for him to win points in a game I wasn't playing. He is confused as to why I no longer want to be near him as he always enjoyed our little interactions.