Wondering IF This Will Get Better

[makingachange]

Hi Everyone!

It has now been almost 2 years since I've seen my parents.  I can't say I miss seeing them...I can't say I miss the stress of it and the anxiety it gave me (feeling judged...feeling like how I felt never mattered.  But, somehow somewhere deep inside me I feel sad still even though it has been 2 long years.  I feel heartbroken that I didn't get what I wanted or what I felt I needed from them...and sometimes I feel like a little 8 year old girl looking for parent.

I feel upset...and I find myself crying at times...feeling triggered from other people who have a set of parents that are there for them and feel supported/loved....but I am feeling like I am still in the process of grieving. 

My parents have cooled off big time...they haven't really sent me anymore messages....but randomly with huge gaps of time in between. 

My father one year ago left me a ice cold voice mail asking me how much longer I planned on cold shouldering them....

I am deeply trying to focus on gratitude...for the family I have such as my loving husband and kids...but this is still so hard.  I am afraid that I won't find peace over this...I am worried that this won't improve and I'll stay in this place of feeling deep sadness....

I don't want to see my parents...I don't honestly feel comfortable talking to them...they give me a ton of anxiety...but I feel like they completely won't/can't understand why I went no contact even though I have explained it...I feel hurt that they just don't get it...and want me to jump back into line...(they do not understand how they have effected me).

But now, they really have left me alone for the most part...I feel this sadness and guilt...I feel stuck like I can't seem to push forward...I feel like a hamster on a wheel going in circles at times...and I can't get off the wheel.  I feel like other people in my life don't understand why I just stopped talking to my parents...my parents in social circles are loved and people think they are great...but don't know the "real" them....I know I don't have to explain anything to anyone...but I feel in my society and where I live that it is truly a sin to banish away your parents...=)

I feel unheard...uncared for by them...and it honestly stings like a deep cut.

My birthday is coming up in a couple of weeks...and I am having anxiety they will send me a birthday message....or try to contact me in some way....

I feel anxiety that they will pass away and that we couldn't ever get this "right"....this gives me so much anxiety....I feel like I am putting it all on me...like I know intellectually that how they have acted and what they have said to me is not acceptable...but the programming of "do as I say" is still active within me somehow...and I can't cut it...or escape it...even though we are not in contact.

I really am tired of the tears, sadness, and feeling stuck with this whole situation.  It feels like it has been going on way too long and I am missing out on other beautiful moments of my life for feeling still sucked into the sadness I feel about this...

I truly want to move forward and enjoy life...but I can't get past this...and I am stuck...

I suppose I am looking for any advice and guidance on how I can get past this sadness...how I can heal and move forward....has anyone else struggled with letting it go??  I am a loss on this at this point....I've tried writing letters to them and then destroying them to help get out how I feel....this has helped some...<3 Any ideas, guidance, suggestions are very welcome!

I appreciate each and every one of you!  Thanks!

[moglow]

I feel the pain throughout your post. I know we have to work through and find acceptance but it sure is hard. Would that we had the ability of our parents to somehow thrust it all aside as if it never happened. I understand about the upcoming birthday, dread that they will contact and wondering what if they don't.

I had a milestone birthday this year that began with a text from my mother followed by complaints that I didn't acknowledge [I had, but near as I can figure she's blocked my texts and doesn't have any idea how to undo it - whole OTHER story there!] and a complete turnaround meltdown via multiple phone calls [mine] and hang ups [hers] before the week was out where it was made clear to me that I wasn't wanted. I reached out again mother's day - had a whole 2+ minutes/less than three before she cut me off and ended the call. On mother's day. I suspect she just needed to check the box: Mo called, check! so she could move on to whatever else.  But I digress ...

My brother shared this with me a few weeks after the birthday fracas, said it popped up after we'd had been talking about the emotional damage done by mother with her lack of interest and repeated abuses. I was spinning pretty hard and nothing was really reaching me, but this has. It is based in and references Bible verses throughout. Praying Medic walks you through the background of emotional healing then through the process itself. Find yourself some quiet time and give it a listen: http://prayingmedic.org/2022/03/13/supernatural-saturday-emotional-healing/

I was stunned how effective this was for me, and has been since. I started with a specific violent incident with my mother that had haunted me since I was a teen, and I'd had recurring nightmares about it since. Every time I had that nightmare it was all fresh and new as if it had just happened. Anyhoo, I worked through this healing session a few times focusing on that one incident - and I don't have those nightmares anymore, haven't had even one since. I'm finding peace I had wondered if was even possible at all. I'd be interested to know what you think.

Whether this is your cup of tea or no, I'm here with you. We all are.

[treesgrowslowly]

Hello makingachange (great name!)

Yes, it can get easier. I have been NC from PD parents for over 10 years now.

And I think that the grieving process is a very personal journey for each of us. As I read your post, I could remember the first 2 years after I went NC, and how much anxiety I also felt about similar things that you describe - having to deal with them if they do contact me, and also, finding a way to enjoy my birthday, in a post-NC situation.

When I went NC, many years ago, I also did not miss the drama and dysfunction, like you wrote about as well.

The real challenge was living in a world where people don't understand NC. No one around me understood what I was going through - I was grieving for people who were still alive - and most people in the general population have no idea what that looks like. In my experience, very few people know how to really support someone who has had to estrange from their parents.

So we are all braving through this here, in our Out of the FOG community where we DO understand estrangement situations.

So going NC can isolate us, because we shoulder a lot of this alone. I mean, if a pet dies, and you tell someone your pet died, you get sympathy - people have context to understand what that means. But with going NC with PD parents, wow, it can be a much more confusing and isolating experience. People don't tend to shame us for grieving a loss through death but that same sympathy is not there if the loss happened due to NC. I found it really hard to deal with people in my life who didn't understand estrangement.

The anxiety you feel is very very common and understandable to those of us who have been through the NC process with family members. I would say that this is where therapists can be helpful because they can validate the sorts of things that are creating the anxiety for you. Are you working with a counsellor?

The book "Adult children of emotionally immature parents" has helped me and also I think others here have said it has helped them. A lot of us went through years where our parents imposed their ideas on us, they messed with our sense of boundaries, and the result is that we then fear what they will do when we finally go NC with them. I know for the first year I was NC, I had a lot of the same anxieties you are dealing with.

You wrote about the anxiety that they will pass away and that "we couldn't get it right". I think this is a familiar feeling for those of us with PD relatives, and especially PD parents. I think that you saying "we couldn't get it right" hits the nail on the head - relationships are a "we" endeavour. You know you can't go to emotional places with them that they don't know how to go to. You know that you cannot fix them. You cannot change them into people who know how to "get it right".

In essense, in my opinion, they don't know how to 'get it right' with us. Of course people in your community see them as fine folks - a lot of us here deal with that. Socially, PDs can be charming and charismatic. It is superficial. It doesn't mean they know how to repair their relationships with their adult children. It doesn't mean they know how to really listen. It just means they know how to charm people in certain settings.

My advice to you is to keep trusting your gut and to keep reminding yourself - when people in your life try to tell you your parents are fine people - remind yourself that you know the truth about how they have treated you.

Those other people have bought into the PD's the public persona, and have no motivation to look behind the mask. That is on them, not on you.

I also don't live in a place where there is much understanding about estrangement - and people are quick to judge us without knowing anything about the situation.

I came to realize that a lot of us adults who come Out of the FOG with narc parents, we are challenging two cultural taboos based on these beliefs:

1. "All parents love their children, so if you pulled away from your parents, there is something wrong with you." Basically the cultural belief is "you shouldn't shun your parents" (shaming us for going NC).

2. "Grief takes x days / weeks and so if you are still grieving after x, there is something wrong with you." The belief is "You shouldn't be grieving this" (shaming us for being sad)

Going up against these cultural taboos, can result in feeling anxious, isolated, sad, etc...Most people don't understand PD abuse, nor the recovery process from it. They don't know what it is like for us to manage our emotions around our birthdays - after going NC. They just don't.

You mentioned other people who have loving parents. I felt hugely resentful and envious of people who have good parents. Parents you don't have to estrange yourself from - just to get peace as an adult, raising your own kids. How lucky are those people! They have no idea. It is luck of the draw. Random - who our parents are and whether they were ever equipped to protect us from abuse.

My advice is to keep learning. Learning information about what PD abuse does to us, that really helped me. For me, learning about codependency recovery from people like Darlene Lancer and Ross Rosenberg helped me to understand what healing would look like for me.

And the Out of the FOG forum and community has been so helpful to me over the years. I really needed to understand my anxiety - why it existed, how much fear I felt at times, and I had to understand my anger. This is where therapy can also be helpful because good therapists can talk with us about our anger.

There are periods of feeling stuck during this journey. It is part of the journey, to think you are stuck and on a hamster wheel. It's only in hindsight that you'll look back and realize, oh when I felt stuck, I was actually doing some valuable things to help myself through some sticky emotions.

As for celebrating your birthday this year, yes, please remind yourself it will get easier over time. I understand my sadness more these days, and I've had to figure out through trial and error, what sorts of things I will and won't be able to enjoy on my birthday each year. I avoid movies and tv shows that depict birthdays as these really big, communal events because I know that in real life, most of us don't have those, and we are being shown images of family life, that don't really exist for most of us anyways. PD or not, most families are not living like we see on tv. I think those images can mess with us, making us feel ashamed of not having those sorts of "over the top" events in our own lives.

It is much better to learn what small pleasures we ourselves enjoy and focus on making that list longer each year. If you have a favourite movie, maybe watching that the week of your birthday will help you to feel more grounded in who you are, and getting that list of 'small pleasures' going for yourself.

Healing is a back and forth process. You'll enjoy a beautiful moment, and then you'll endure some feelings of sadness and confusion. Then you'll take in another small joy or pleasure, and then the next day you'll deal with anxiety that has come up.

I know that I was the type to desperately want my life to feel good and feel like I've found a way to let go of what happened. But then I realized, I can't deny what happened - because it happened. We can make room for more joy, and for me that meant understanding my own emotions much better than I did when I was in contact with my FOO. Going NC created that space for me to heal. When I was in contact with my FOO, they ensured that there was NO space in my life, to process my emotions. They kept me busy, they kept me distracted by drama, and well, you know how that is....

I'm reading your post and wondering if you feel pressure to be in the 'right' mood on your birthday, to have the 'right feelings' that day, and to be able to 'enjoy' your birthday in the right way. This sort of pressure is SO familiar to many of us here. And it comes from an important place - we know we have a right to a good life.  And also - we also feel a lot of sadness inside.

And so what I had to learn was that birthdays create a lot of confusion because how do you hold onto the things you know you have a right to (joy, happiness, celebration with family) AND the sadness that is just as real, just as valid and present?

It was hard - for years I walked around, with the 'wrong' feelings inside me after going NC. I tried to have the 'right' feelings for the present - but the real stuff I felt inside, I could pretend it wasn't there but it would just come out later anyways. The sadness was real, and like you, I got real tired of it after a few years of carrying it.

What I dearly wish I had back then, was someone in my life who understood what I was dealing with, and could say "Ok trees let's talk about the feelings you are feeling inside, and then that strong desire to feel joy instead of sorrow". And have someone who knew that on my birthday, there are a lot of emotional triggers to the past. Birthdays can be hard for us.

After PD abuse, I craved emotional honesty with people, and not finding it, just made me feel like I was the one who had the 'wrong' emotions - on my own birthday.

I am glad you are here. This community does a great job with people sharing what has worked for them!

Trees

[makingachange]

I feel the pain throughout your post. I know we have to work through and find acceptance but it sure is hard. Would that we had the ability of our parents to somehow thrust it all aside as if it never happened. I understand about the upcoming birthday, dread that they will contact and wondering what if they don't.

I had a milestone birthday this year that began with a text from my mother followed by complaints that I didn't acknowledge [I had, but near as I can figure she's blocked my texts and doesn't have any idea how to undo it - whole OTHER story there!] and a complete turnaround meltdown via multiple phone calls [mine] and hang ups [hers] before the week was out where it was made clear to me that I wasn't wanted. I reached out again mother's day - had a whole 2+ minutes/less than three before she cut me off and ended the call. On mother's day. I suspect she just needed to check the box: Mo called, check! so she could move on to whatever else.  But I digress ...

My brother shared this with me a few weeks after the birthday fracas, said it popped up after we'd had been talking about the emotional damage done by mother with her lack of interest and repeated abuses. I was spinning pretty hard and nothing was really reaching me, but this has. It is based in and references Bible verses throughout. Praying Medic walks you through the background of emotional healing then through the process itself. Find yourself some quiet time and give it a listen: http://prayingmedic.org/2022/03/13/supernatural-saturday-emotional-healing/

I was stunned how effective this was for me, and has been since. I started with a specific violent incident with my mother that had haunted me since I was a teen, and I'd had recurring nightmares about it since. Every time I had that nightmare it was all fresh and new as if it had just happened. Anyhoo, I worked through this healing session a few times focusing on that one incident - and I don't have those nightmares anymore, haven't had even one since. I'm finding peace I had wondered if was even possible at all. I'd be interested to know what you think.

Whether this is your cup of tea or no, I'm here with you. We all are.

Thank you so much for this!!  I am going to go check out the link you shared with me!  I deeply appreciate your insight on this as well...Thank you again! 

[makingachange]

Hello makingachange (great name!)

Yes, it can get easier. I have been NC from PD parents for over 10 years now.

And I think that the grieving process is a very personal journey for each of us. As I read your post, I could remember the first 2 years after I went NC, and how much anxiety I also felt about similar things that you describe - having to deal with them if they do contact me, and also, finding a way to enjoy my birthday, in a post-NC situation.

When I went NC, many years ago, I also did not miss the drama and dysfunction, like you wrote about as well.

The real challenge was living in a world where people don't understand NC. No one around me understood what I was going through - I was grieving for people who were still alive - and most people in the general population have no idea what that looks like. In my experience, very few people know how to really support someone who has had to estrange from their parents.

So we are all braving through this here, in our Out of the FOG community where we DO understand estrangement situations.

So going NC can isolate us, because we shoulder a lot of this alone. I mean, if a pet dies, and you tell someone your pet died, you get sympathy - people have context to understand what that means. But with going NC with PD parents, wow, it can be a much more confusing and isolating experience. People don't tend to shame us for grieving a loss through death but that same sympathy is not there if the loss happened due to NC. I found it really hard to deal with people in my life who didn't understand estrangement.

The anxiety you feel is very very common and understandable to those of us who have been through the NC process with family members. I would say that this is where therapists can be helpful because they can validate the sorts of things that are creating the anxiety for you. Are you working with a counsellor?

The book "Adult children of emotionally immature parents" has helped me and also I think others here have said it has helped them. A lot of us went through years where our parents imposed their ideas on us, they messed with our sense of boundaries, and the result is that we then fear what they will do when we finally go NC with them. I know for the first year I was NC, I had a lot of the same anxieties you are dealing with.

You wrote about the anxiety that they will pass away and that "we couldn't get it right". I think this is a familiar feeling for those of us with PD relatives, and especially PD parents. I think that you saying "we couldn't get it right" hits the nail on the head - relationships are a "we" endeavour. You know you can't go to emotional places with them that they don't know how to go to. You know that you cannot fix them. You cannot change them into people who know how to "get it right".

In essense, in my opinion, they don't know how to 'get it right' with us. Of course people in your community see them as fine folks - a lot of us here deal with that. Socially, PDs can be charming and charismatic. It is superficial. It doesn't mean they know how to repair their relationships with their adult children. It doesn't mean they know how to really listen. It just means they know how to charm people in certain settings.

My advice to you is to keep trusting your gut and to keep reminding yourself - when people in your life try to tell you your parents are fine people - remind yourself that you know the truth about how they have treated you.

Those other people have bought into the PD's the public persona, and have no motivation to look behind the mask. That is on them, not on you.

I also don't live in a place where there is much understanding about estrangement - and people are quick to judge us without knowing anything about the situation.

I came to realize that a lot of us adults who come Out of the FOG with narc parents, we are challenging two cultural taboos based on these beliefs:

1. "All parents love their children, so if you pulled away from your parents, there is something wrong with you." Basically the cultural belief is "you shouldn't shun your parents" (shaming us for going NC).

2. "Grief takes x days / weeks and so if you are still grieving after x, there is something wrong with you." The belief is "You shouldn't be grieving this" (shaming us for being sad)

Going up against these cultural taboos, can result in feeling anxious, isolated, sad, etc...Most people don't understand PD abuse, nor the recovery process from it. They don't know what it is like for us to manage our emotions around our birthdays - after going NC. They just don't.

You mentioned other people who have loving parents. I felt hugely resentful and envious of people who have good parents. Parents you don't have to estrange yourself from - just to get peace as an adult, raising your own kids. How lucky are those people! They have no idea. It is luck of the draw. Random - who our parents are and whether they were ever equipped to protect us from abuse.

My advice is to keep learning. Learning information about what PD abuse does to us, that really helped me. For me, learning about codependency recovery from people like Darlene Lancer and Ross Rosenberg helped me to understand what healing would look like for me.

And the Out of the FOG forum and community has been so helpful to me over the years. I really needed to understand my anxiety - why it existed, how much fear I felt at times, and I had to understand my anger. This is where therapy can also be helpful because good therapists can talk with us about our anger.

There are periods of feeling stuck during this journey. It is part of the journey, to think you are stuck and on a hamster wheel. It's only in hindsight that you'll look back and realize, oh when I felt stuck, I was actually doing some valuable things to help myself through some sticky emotions.

As for celebrating your birthday this year, yes, please remind yourself it will get easier over time. I understand my sadness more these days, and I've had to figure out through trial and error, what sorts of things I will and won't be able to enjoy on my birthday each year. I avoid movies and tv shows that depict birthdays as these really big, communal events because I know that in real life, most of us don't have those, and we are being shown images of family life, that don't really exist for most of us anyways. PD or not, most families are not living like we see on tv. I think those images can mess with us, making us feel ashamed of not having those sorts of "over the top" events in our own lives.

It is much better to learn what small pleasures we ourselves enjoy and focus on making that list longer each year. If you have a favourite movie, maybe watching that the week of your birthday will help you to feel more grounded in who you are, and getting that list of 'small pleasures' going for yourself.

Healing is a back and forth process. You'll enjoy a beautiful moment, and then you'll endure some feelings of sadness and confusion. Then you'll take in another small joy or pleasure, and then the next day you'll deal with anxiety that has come up.

I know that I was the type to desperately want my life to feel good and feel like I've found a way to let go of what happened. But then I realized, I can't deny what happened - because it happened. We can make room for more joy, and for me that meant understanding my own emotions much better than I did when I was in contact with my FOO. Going NC created that space for me to heal. When I was in contact with my FOO, they ensured that there was NO space in my life, to process my emotions. They kept me busy, they kept me distracted by drama, and well, you know how that is....

I'm reading your post and wondering if you feel pressure to be in the 'right' mood on your birthday, to have the 'right feelings' that day, and to be able to 'enjoy' your birthday in the right way. This sort of pressure is SO familiar to many of us here. And it comes from an important place - we know we have a right to a good life.  And also - we also feel a lot of sadness inside.

And so what I had to learn was that birthdays create a lot of confusion because how do you hold onto the things you know you have a right to (joy, happiness, celebration with family) AND the sadness that is just as real, just as valid and present?

It was hard - for years I walked around, with the 'wrong' feelings inside me after going NC. I tried to have the 'right' feelings for the present - but the real stuff I felt inside, I could pretend it wasn't there but it would just come out later anyways. The sadness was real, and like you, I got real tired of it after a few years of carrying it.

What I dearly wish I had back then, was someone in my life who understood what I was dealing with, and could say "Ok trees let's talk about the feelings you are feeling inside, and then that strong desire to feel joy instead of sorrow". And have someone who knew that on my birthday, there are a lot of emotional triggers to the past. Birthdays can be hard for us.

After PD abuse, I craved emotional honesty with people, and not finding it, just made me feel like I was the one who had the 'wrong' emotions - on my own birthday.

I am glad you are here. This community does a great job with people sharing what has worked for them!

Trees

Hi Trees!

Thank you so much for your response!  I deeply appreciate your words and advice!

I actually started talking to a therapist early on with this situation.  But, the therapist really didn't get this...and kept pushing for me to be in contact with them...asking me if I could just talk to them in general but never get too deep....It felt like the therapist didn't understand why I felt the way I did...and never gave any validation either...which led me to stop seeing this Dr.

I have read several books...especially about healing the inner child...

They have been somewhat helpful...but hasn't completely helped "heal" the sadness.

I think at this point there is a part of me that sees that their behavior is completely wrong and not right....but still a part of me that feels guilt...that feels like I somehow did this....even though I know I didn't.

It is like I can't seem to see things clearly at times...and I feel this heaviness....It is like this complete shock still at times...that I didn't see all of this until the last couple of years...and I can't believe it....

You see, I had just had a newborn baby...me and my family were so happy and excited by the new addition...but then some big thing happened to my parents...it was a stressful event that involved their home...I was understanding of their problem...but, it felt like they were not interested in my new baby...they weren't interested in anything but their own issues/life.....I knew that things were not right even before all of this happened...but I always managed to let it slide...but then, it felt like they just didn't care ...it felt so strange...and I eventually got the point where I felt completely uncomfortable left alone with them...I started to gray rock them pretty hard.....because I felt like I couldn't take this with them anymore...the negative things they would say, the anxiety they made me feel, and the way they behaved...and the gray rocking is what led to them exploding towards me BIG time/threats for wellness checks/craziness/threats to sit outside my house in my driveway all day...so much so, that I told them point blank if they kept going crazy towards me...I would have to go no contact....their response was that this didn't sound like me.....they wouldn't stop and for literally 3 months every single day I would get text messages from them that were guilt inducing/threating/love bombing/...so I did go no contact...(I was having cold sweats/nervous a lot to even be outside afraid they would show up/it was too much....so I cut communication.

They said they were sorry for anything that they did that offended me...they never really sent a heart filled apology or anything of that sort...and it felt like they just couldn't see or didn't want to see that they had been so mean....they would say things like...we have apologized over and over and don't know what to do....and at other times would say that they knew I was missing and that this wasn't me...and that even people in jail get a second chance....?

I guess I ask myself ....should I just have dealt with the feelings of feeling uncomfortable with them...should I have just dealt with it and not gray rocked...would that have prevented me from going through all of this?

It is this push and pull of I know I had to do this...but the other side is ....did I do this?  Did I ruin this...should I have just sucked it up...was it really all that bad or was I just over reacting. 

I guess one thing that really sticks in my head is my Father yelling at my 6 year old daughter to help make her (infant) 9 month old brother stop crying...which left my daughter crying...and feeling upset that her grandfather was "mean" to her....

I guess it also boils down to the fact that I feel upset still...still in the fog to a certain degree that I can't see things more clearly....and the pain that it feels to know that I didn't get what I wanted or needed in my own parents.

I want my own children to have the best life...I want them to feel good...be comfortable growing up....and know that me and their Father are always there for them ....I want things for my children to be different...=)

I just need to figure out how to get over the guilt/sadness/and see more clearly...and I suppose this just takes time.  <3

Again, thank you so so so much for your words...I will focus on doing happy things for my birthday...and with my family I know they will have something fun that day...I hope you have a great rest of your day!  <3

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi Making a change,

I am sorry about the experience you had with that therapist. When I went NC, and told the counsellors I met with that I was NC, they didn't question me at all about it. They accepted it, and assumed I had good reasons. When I was less than 2 years NC, this made a huge difference. Out in the world, I was not getting that response but in the therapy office I was.

So based on knowing how affirming it felt to have someone nod in agreement when I said I went NC, I feel that you may have needed that affirmation as well. Instead, you had someone who did what most average people do - question your decision.

During the grieving process, there is normal feelings of shock and normal feelings of bargaining (wondering if there are things we could do / could have done to make things better). It is very common to question ourselves and our decisions, especially if others are also questioning our decisions.

From what you describe, it sounds like your parents are focused on what is going on for them - what works for them, what they want, what they want to say, what they feel, what they want you to hear, what they think, what they believe, etc etc etc.

Sounds like they want a lot from you.

You're a mom to two small kids -you already have 2 people who have legit needs that you have to parent each day.

I hope you find more and more peace as time goes on. I hope you keep posting here. It is a good place where people understand this process of going NC.

Trees

[moglow]

 
Worse, you're already questioning and doubting a decision you didn't take lightly, and yet another person asks "but have you/can you/what if you ..." Yes, Lord have mercy, yes! I've tried everything I know to do and sixteen other things I'd have never thought of and I'm MISERABLE. Nobody in this situation is happy and they're still pulling at me for something I don't have and maybe never did! They don't hear me, don't see me and aren't showing any signs of respecting me on any level and I can't keep doing it!

One of my best therapist discussions ever was when she asked me point blank what I'd do if a good friend treated me the way mother did. Before I even thought it all the way through, I laughed and I told her well I sure wouldn't consider that person a friend! And the doc just looked at me then repeated what I'd said, kind of deadpanned where I had to listen it all the way through. It was so eye opening having my own words repeated back to me, the realization that on some level I really did get what I was saying and it came from way down deep. This was my mother we were talking about and it hit me like a ton of bricks how toxic it all was.

I honestly believe a great number of people think they're helping us with their suggestions, but damn. Do they really not think we've tried all that, that maybe we need some actual distance to decompress and get out of our own way?? No contact doesn't have to be forever, or it might be the best thing that ever happened for us. But seriously, the path we've been on isn't helping anyone and is only compounding the damage, so let's move a whole other direction for a while. Those anxiety attacks were sending you a clear message - whether or not your parents happen to agree is immaterial. Change can be a really good thing.

It DOES get better. Part of that is learning to trust yourself first instead of what "they" [all the other theys!] think.