Where to start

[escapingman]

So far we are both OK,  hopefully we dodged a bullet there. My dad keeps calling and messaging but I am to cross to pick up, not that he has appollogised anyway.

2 months of no contact with uNPDx now,  I am starting to feel a bit alive again. I have done all I can do for now for the hearing so will try to disconnect and enjoy a few days with SG. Hopefully the weather is nice tomorrow and if so we are planning to take a ferry out for a beach on an island. Life is so much better without drama.

[escapingman]

Just need this verified by you. I am obviously upset with my dad and his spouse for what they did, my dad keep calling and messaging.  I have not picked up or replied, I am very concerned he would just pretend all is OK, no apology and try to meet up despite himself testing positive just a few days ago. I am not giving him the silent treatment, I am protecting myself. Right? I don't want to hurt him but I cannot let him walk all over me again.

[square]

You don't have to take his calls if you don't want to. You have enough going on.

You don't evenneed tojustifynot taking his calls. You don't want to, is a good enough reason.

I don't harrass people who don't want to talk with me, and it doesn't matter whether I don't understand their reasoning, or don't agree with it. And yes, I have been in that position.

A couple of calls from him is fine, then  he should figure the ball's in your court.

If you want to call him in a few months, fine. If he decides he doesn't want to take your call then, fine.

If he continues to call you, he istrying to control you.

[escapingman]

Thank square, even though I know I am doing it to protest me I feel bad. Now my mum is doing the same bombarding me with messages to meet up. We are hardly out of the woods for catching Covid so feel quite stressed about it all. It's not like I had planned to spend a fortune on hotels to hang around my parents area and now I am supposed to spend even more to spend the second week in a hotel as well. We lost the first week now,and the second was planned for us to go somewhere else. I am getting quite tired of having parents behaving like children, expecting whatever but not able to cater for our needs.

[hhaw]

Adjust your expectations for your FOO, EM and keep moving.

You can't fix or change them... they are what they are and you're very right to protect yourself in all the ways possible.

I will also say, your responses TO them can just let them off the hook to go about their business without  stirring up what might be a hornets nest during the divorce. 

Sometimes really disordered people go on the offense IF they feel attacked or unjustly accused.  Not saying your father, Stepmum or mum WOULD DO SUCH A THINK,but hey..... don't poke any more bears than you have to right now....maybe?

Make excuses, claim you're not feeling well, but plan to deal with their lack of boundaries and disordered behavior AFTER the divorce is over, IMO.

The FOO stuff will be more cans of worms than I think you want to take on during this stressful time and as someone who's been sabotaged from the inside.... during many Court battles, I just want to say avoid the trouble, prioritize your care and it's OK to keep your disgust and upset under your hat for a while.

Or not.

It's up to you.  I hope the weather gives you a lovley day at the beach, EM.

[escapingman]

I am losing focus on the important stuff with all this crap going on with my parents. UNPDx has been messaging with SG in the background. I wouldn't want to prevent contact between them, but with uNPDx brain washing GC to have no contact with us I don't think she deserves any contact. Secondly she is using the contact in her case in the court hearing to pretend her and SG are close therefor she should have SG. I am so angry and I am struggling to control my emotions now. In one way I want to take the phone off SG to stop all contact, but at the same time I know that is wrong. But how do I win when it looks like every option I have will make me lose.

[moglow]

I'm not following - They don't understand that the visit ended with the covid issue, that you're not hanging about for more of the same? Why not just respond with: "We've got a lot going on and not feeling up to anything. It's best we head back home. We'll plan a trip back another time." Then do just that. Don't get into a big back and forth or make a bunch of excuses and explain yourself to pieces, just make your arrangements and go. There is no harm in just telling them honestly, plans have changed and you're not up to a visit. If they get all offended, then they just do. Plans change. People change. And life goes on.

Maybe a break from everything would do you and SG good anyway. It there maybe a little side trip you can make on your way back that you'd both enjoy?

[escapingman]

Thanks for your reply Moglow. It's a tricky one, we need to hang around as I need my travel documents back which could take up to a week. I have no interest in seeing or even talking to my dad, others I don't trust to let him in through the back door. I will rhino about best way but right now me and DD are enjoying ourselves. I will call her DD from now as she is no longer a scape goat. We had an amazing day on the beach taking a ferry there, DD is worn out now but happy.

[escapingman]

I am struggling a bit, DD wants constant entertaining and attention. This is really wearing me out staying in a hotel with no space for either of us to be on our own. I just want to go back home now, absolutely fed up and feel let down by family. I already spent the budget for this holiday and really can't afford throwing money at hotels where I don't want to be. We were supposed to go on an adventure the second week but the first week just didn't turn out as expected.

Had a nightmare about uNPDx as well, we were back together and she was all I ever wanted her to be. Really messing with my head. I need this nightmare to end. I miss my other girl so much I just want to cry.

How can I be expected to be social and smile with family and extended family when all I want to do is cry? Not once have they asked how I really feel.

[hhaw]

Your family won't ask bc they're broken and can't do better.  Drop hope they'll change.

Accept they're never going to be the supportive, caring FOO you deserved.  Someone broke them and now they're unable to do better.

YOU CAN do better for your children.

Maybe go back home and plan some more BBQs and sleepovers for DD's friends and make smoors and hang fairy lights in the backyard....... put up a tent for the girls to sleep in....... build a camp fire....... find a forest and go adventuring...... pick up interesting rocks and sticks.... splash around in a stream...... find a river and jump on the rocks, but go into nature and breathe, EM.

Let evertything be what it is.... put it down and turn to what's in front of you..... notice the trees and colors and shapes around you.......touch bark...  wiggle your toes in the grass.... do this w DD and explain how pleasing it is to be present in nature then go find more cool stuff and splash around a bit more.

It's going to be OK.

[escapingman]

Thanks hhaw for your reply. Yes you are right and I am tired of it. Just another missed call and message from my dad, he said according to current guidelines he is now deemed fine so asked us to come back to his place. Not an apology, just an expectation. I just can't believe he could even ask. DD screamed no way when I told her.

We have been out playing mini golf, walked in the nature and had a pizza. She is amazing. We just need to hang around for a few more days then we see what we do.

[escapingman]

I am struggling right now, my FOO is letting me down and I am wondering is it me, is it them, was uNPDx not the problem after all. It is driving me insane. I know uNPDx was toxic and I needed to leave. But now I feel I need to leave my FOO too. I am starting to feel very lonely. It's only me and DD, she agrees with me but she is only 12.

Me and DD are creating memories and a bond together. I think I need to put us first, second and  third and create a life fir us now. Fight for my other daughter to join us but ditch all toxic people now.

[Andeza]

The brokenness of your Foo groomed you to fall in love with a woman like your stbx, EM. I wholeheartedly agree with hhaw in this matter. I will second that get out into nature go to parks, find kids for your dd to play with while you are on this vacation that makes it still a good vacation for you both.

[escapingman]

Thanks Andazea, I realise that is what happened. I got zero love and attention from them as,a child and had to fend for myself emotionally.  I can't remember either of my parents ever hugging me or telling me they loved me. My mum was shouting a lot when I got in to my teens but I never thought much about it. Since they never hit me I never thought about the "neglect" as abuse. I was good ain school,  but had no encouragement and they had already decided I was going to work in the family business as everybody else. Not until I left town at 18 for studying and then going on to university I started to really do well in school, I can see the correlation now to when I moved away. They never expressed any joy or proudness when I as the first person in the entire family got a university degree, they didn't even attend my degree ceremony (I think I made it easy for them by telling them they don't need to come). I then lived in the big city, 2 hours from my home town, my mum came to see me once in 3 years - together with my sister. My dad had lots of business in the city and used to meet me when on a job out of convince.

I can see it all now. When I met uNPDx she showed me so much attention and it was just us. She didn't spend any time with anyone else, just me. I was in heaven, I could not believe my luck. Then her family, all of them showered me with attention. I loved them all, I git everything my FOO didn't give me. But then the love bombing was over and bang down to the ground, the devaluation started shortly after she moved in (only 3 months after we met). But I was hooked, I was so hooked on her I could not see. But I knew something was wrong, when we moved to another area and she got me totally isolated from friends, I was wondering the streets after our daily/weekly rows wondering what was wrong. I got a job working from home and hardly saw a other sole for a year or two until I changed job and we moved. My new job took me away being out all the time, I felt better, much better. Things were still bad at home but not that bad, I can't remember so much badness but we both worked a lot as nd didn't see each other that much. Then came the kids, and the move to her home town. BANG, that killed it. Her FOO involved themselves in everything, trying to control us and detailed tell us what to do. Her dad a very overt narc and alcoholic, ger mum covert narc or something similar. Then her dad died, she cut contact with her mum and made me her total supply. That was when I woke up and realised she had issues, found out on the Internet she probably has BPD. I didn't like diagnose so ignored it and didn't look again for 5 years. Then it was so bad I couldn't ignore it anymore and mu journey Out of the FOG slowly started, 6 years later here I am.

And breathe.....

[justducky]

As painful as it all is, thank goodness you're Out of the FOG and see things so clearly. Thank goodness you had the strength to move away from your family and start discovering yourself.

You deserve love, kindness, and respect. Unfortunately many people are too broken and/or unable to give those things.

You're doing great, EM. Keep going! 

[SonofThunder]

Thanks Andazea, I realise that is what happened. I got zero love and attention from them as,a child and had to fend for myself emotionally.  I can't remember either of my parents ever hugging me or telling me they loved me. My mum was shouting a lot when I got in to my teens but I never thought much about it. Since they never hit me I never thought about the "neglect" as abuse. I was good ain school,  but had no encouragement and they had already decided I was going to work in the family business as everybody else. Not until I left town at 18 for studying and then going on to university I started to really do well in school, I can see the correlation now to when I moved away. They never expressed any joy or proudness when I as the first person in the entire family got a university degree, they didn't even attend my degree ceremony (I think I made it easy for them by telling them they don't need to come). I then lived in the big city, 2 hours from my home town, my mum came to see me once in 3 years - together with my sister. My dad had lots of business in the city and used to meet me when on a job out of convince.

I can see it all now. When I met uNPDx she showed me so much attention and it was just us. She didn't spend any time with anyone else, just me. I was in heaven, I could not believe my luck. Then her family, all of them showered me with attention. I loved them all, I git everything my FOO didn't give me. But then the love bombing was over and bang down to the ground, the devaluation started shortly after she moved in (only 3 months after we met). But I was hooked, I was so hooked on her I could not see. But I knew something was wrong, when we moved to another area and she got me totally isolated from friends, I was wondering the streets after our daily/weekly rows wondering what was wrong. I got a job working from home and hardly saw a other sole for a year or two until I changed job and we moved. My new job took me away being out all the time, I felt better, much better. Things were still bad at home but not that bad, I can't remember so much badness but we both worked a lot as nd didn't see each other that much. Then came the kids, and the move to her home town. BANG, that killed it. Her FOO involved themselves in everything, trying to control us and detailed tell us what to do. Her dad a very overt narc and alcoholic, ger mum covert narc or something similar. Then her dad died, she cut contact with her mum and made me her total supply. That was when I woke up and realised she had issues, found out on the Internet she probably has BPD. I didn't like diagnose so ignored it and didn't look again for 5 years. Then it was so bad I couldn't ignore it anymore and mu journey Out of the FOG slowly started, 6 years later here I am.

And breathe.....

That sir, is very healthy knowledge, and in my own experiences, helped me to understand that my self diagnosis, both of my uPDstbx, my uPDf and also myself as a 'caretaker', may be very accurate.  I then had to unlearn those habits, protect myself, allow adults to adult themselves, forgive myself for my past caretaking ways and begin new to embrace the real me, that had been suppressed. 

For me, understanding this past in all my foo and how i was groomed by that dynamic to attract a PD was a further fog-clearing experience.  Im so very glad you understand your past and hopefully you will be able to use that understanding to retrain DD and in the near future, possibly DD2 as well, away from GC traits and the caretaking you may have modeled in their much younger years. 

They may learn from your education and experiences and learn to spot needer's and facades and learn to balance true caring and not 'caretaking'. 

SoT

[escapingman]

Thanks for your replies, it us so good have you all.

Have been to a waterland today with slides, DD had the time of her life (I had the fright of mine). We were missing her sister so much as this is things they should do together. It got me thinking and got me angry again, uNPDx really thought putting a wedge between them and destroy their relationship for her own pleasure was a good idea. It got me fired up for the hearing and gave me fuel to fight, GC needs saving, not for me but for herself and her sister.

At the same time as all this going on my dad keep calling and texting. I told him in a message yesterday we don't want to see him cause we don't want to risk getting covid. Today he called again and texted and asked to see us. I am getting mildly annoyed with him to say the least.

[moglow]

Boundaries, escapingman - just because he keeps asking doesn't mean you have to keep answering. My mother would do that, ask the same question over and over. Even after I'd answered her she'd turn around and ask same question if it wasn't what she wanted to hear. It's not open for discussion - you feel how you feel and they stomped all over it with knowing they were sick and choosing to say nothing. He may [or may not!] be in the clear now, and you've decided you don't want to risk further exposure. Done.

[escapingman]

Thanks Moglow, I really need validation now. Boundaries has never existed between me and my dad, he has always just walked all over me. To see that I needed uNPDx, she made me stand up to him which I actually will be grateful for. Not in the way she would think but I am. I suspect he has a dependent personality disorder or severe co dependency as he need someone all the time (not me until I had enough and then he need me). I always have 2 choices, do what he want and assist him in pleasing someone else, or say no and have him chasing me day in day out until I give up and agree to what he wants, and then he throw me under a bus,again as he need to please some one else. I can see now, but I wish I had seen it 40 years ago in my childhood.

[moglow]

It's never too late to draw that line, EM. I'm 60 and just in the past several years have I found that courage with mother. I had to really think about it - she gets mad either way, so I take the softer path. I still try to not hold on to it all until I explode but I've found No. She was never very persistent but once she gets on a subject she wants to fight about it's hard to shut it down. I had to take a hard step back and think what's the worst that would happen - she wouldn't call? I didn't want to go into all that again anyway, so her silent treats actually kind of worked for me. Same with dad - what's he going to do? He can't take your keys, shut off your allowance, put you on restriction. At some point for your sake you have to learn that No means No and it doesn't have to be repeated over and over.


You could always quietly block or have his calls go straight to voicemail, then refuse to even look at them for x days ... You need a break, and only you can provide that.