My head feels muddled by friends behaviour?

Amy-Rose · July 29, 2022, 04:45:02 PM

I'm sorry this is long but I desperately need some support and guidance with this friendship. My head feels very muddled and confused by this person's behaviour.
I would just like to hear opinions/advice on what I've experienced and how to take it from here in a way that will avoid any drama. Sometimes I feel like I'm making a mountain out of a molehill, and no longer trust my judgement on this person.

I met Natalie 3 years ago through a mutual friend of ours, Heather. For the first year I had little to do with her but I really liked her. She seemed quiet, shy, reserved and a bit of a loner. She seemed to have a bit of social anxiety but plenty of friends. She never really spoke to me but she seemed like a genuinely kind hearted person. She always seemed to have these pie in the sky ideas about how she was going to help the world. After 3 years none of it happened.

Our friendship began on a rather horrible day when we arrived at Heather's home for a meeting and found she had passed in the night. It was a pretty traumatic day, but even now, her behaviour was unsettling. I was very upset and not only did she show no effort to comfort me, but she never shed a tear over her friend of 15 years. She did nothing but create chaos and start an argument with Heather's neighbour. When the paramedics came out and told us she had passed and we'd need to give a police statement she said: "Well, how long will the police be as I need to go home and walk my dogs." I just put that cold response down to shock. But in the following days I saw her show no further grief. She spent a lot of time telling everyone who would listen how hard her life was.
We began helping Heather's family clean out her flat. She seemed interested in helping until everything she wanted to take was gone, then it was every excuse to no longer help out. She showed her face occasionally. Offered to help but then never showed up.
The day we lost Heather, a close relative of mine died of co-vid. I told her and she showed no empathy to me. Instead she just started telling me how hard her life was and began crying. She started telling me about her abusive father she had no contact with, her mentally ill sister she looked after, her unfair dismissal from her job, and a bad past relationship. She seemed quite irritable and ranty at times. Still very worked up about bad treatment 15 years ago. I was glad when she left. She made out she had lots of friends yet none of them seemed to be around very much.
Over the next few months she began coming round my home. At first she'd ask to come, then she'd just begin showing up. A month later she lost her sister to suicide and she came to me. I got dragged into the mess and found myself helping out when I didn't really feel up to it. I was dealing with my grief and hers.
Over the next few months the relationship was a bit of a mixed bag. We went out together and had some nice times. She often showed up with boxes of chocolates for me and other items. I'd never had so much generosity from a friend. She had horses so we went riding together, dog walking. On the other hand she'd tell me she was hard up for money, but seemed to always have the money to go away and visit friends every month, sometimes twice a month. Some behaviour felt out of character with this good hearted person. She had an aggressive dog that would bite other dogs and when it did she never apologised, ignored threats to report her and sometimes even swore at the people who rightly complained and made it their fault. She'd then complain about people who let their aggressive dogs off lead, which was what she did. She was very hypocritical. Everyone else was to blame for everything. She was very selfish. The generosity began to disappear and all it really became was me helping her exercise her horses and her dogs. I seemed to do all the giving. She expected to come to mine but when I tried to visit her I was never let in or offered anything. She began making arrangements with me and either: cancelling last minute for another friend, just not turning up, or being hours later. She'd always have excuses but seemed to make it on time for meets with other friends. She'd also suddenly ignore me for weeks on end. I started to feel like I was being used. She'd keep going away and ask me to take care of her horses when she went but seemed to always be vague on where she was going. She'd show up with her "to do lists" and never showed any interest in helping me back and showed very little interest in my life. She never criticised me but everyone else in the world. And all this was mixed in with good times but always doing things that serviced her needs never mine. I never got any support or empathy. It was all about her pain. And sudden weeks of silence before showing back up again, always wanting something. She tended to often be angry and complaining about something, almost constantly irritable.
I asked her for help once and she did help me out for a few hours. I was grateful that she actually did help me this one time and so I wrote off the other stuff.

I was woken up one morning at 6:45am to a woman screaming. I get out of bed and look out of the window to see her kicking the cramp out of an older man's car. I go outside just to see her car vanishing around the corner and I'm standing alone with this man, who turns out to be the father she has nothing to do with. He'd come to jump start her car but wasn't specific about why she'd reacted so violently, but seemed very clued up on her life. He said she had a 'mean streak,' was selfish, took no blame, couldn't tolerate not getting her way and apologised to me for the disruption. I felt quite shocked by what I'd seen.
As expected, hours later she returned knocking on my door and began immediately telling me she'd had an argument with her Dad who had slapped her in the face. After several renditions of this story she began asking me why I hadn't come out and helped her or called the police. I told her all I'd seen was her kicking his car, that's what I'd have called the police on if anything. She looked shocked that I'd seen that and excused it with the fact he'd slapped her. But she continued to ask why I hadn't helped her or called the police on her behalf. I continued to explain I did come out but you'd left. I never saw him slap her. She just said it again, like she couldn't hear me and I lost my temper and told her not to blame me and I wasn't tolerating her bad behaviour towards me anymore. She laughed and said she was only joking. I said I wasn't. I was tired of being used, ignored, having my time wasted and her self-obsession. She asked for times when I thought she'd used me and I gave them to her. Everytime she just said "I'm sorry you feel that way." over and over. Nothing else. I replied I'm sorry your actions make me feel that way. She then told me I was unreliable because sometimes when she knocked on my door I didn't answer because I was out and that I'd been ignoring all her texts (I hadn't received any from her in weeks) She had multiple ways of contacting me other than text. I also mentioned her making arrangements with me and either not showing up in favour of other friends that never seemed to be there for her like I was or being hours late. She said she had a hard year and had a bad memory so forgot the arrangements. No mention of bad memory before.

Her memory seemed no worse than anyone else's and she seemed able to remember and be on time to meet with other friends.
I asked if there was something going on with her, mentally or otherwise, that I needed to know as her behaviour felt "off". She said no.Then began drying and hugging me promising to mend her ways. I got a box of chocolates the next day and a "sorry" card.
Somehow this resolved itself and I walked away feeling completely confused, like nothing had been resolved, I still had this dark weight in the pit of my stomach and my goal of ending the friendship hadn't been accomplished. I felt guilty. I felt ashamed of losing my temper but I'd taken 8 months of what felt like bad treatment. I'd been suffering too but no empathy was given for me. I began to question myself and my reliability and realised I'd been more than reliable to her.

The next 6 months returned to old ways. I saw less of her but it was still her only showing up when she wanted something and weeks of complete silence. She needed constant help with the animals for a month and I did it for their sake. Now there's been 6 whole weeks of silence from her. I want things to end here. This is no friendship. But I have a horrible feeling that she'll find her way back to me again. This silence feels a bit like a punishment. She knows I'm close to her pets and will be missing them. I'm trying to get over it and find other things to do. But my head feels a bit muddled. Any advice? Thanks for taking the time to read

Lilyloo · July 30, 2022, 01:05:12 PM

I hope you get some replies and good advice on this issue. I myself am having friend issues and don't understand their behavior. Your friend sounds very self absorbed and
narcisstic just from things you say she is doing and that line " sorry you feel that way" is what my narcisstic mother says all the time. It seems a way for them to not take any blame and toss it back on you. I'm not the best at giving advice. I hope some of the members here will post. They are so good at giving the best advice. I do think what her father said is very possibly true about her. The silent treatment is also classic Ns. I'm so sorry for what you've gone through. Keep checking. You will get replies. Take care of you!

Amy-Rose · July 30, 2022, 01:40:34 PM

Thank you so so much. I've been looking for a good support place like this for ages and this forum got nothing but recommended and good reviews from people. It's a lot to read I understand that. Just to hear someone else see what I'm saying and not fob me of with "maybe that's just how she is." means a lot. I feel so confused and my mind feels split. I get angry and think the worst, then I start making excuses for her behaviour, I've never felt so muddled or conflicted about someone in my life. Thank you again for your time and your understanding. Sorry to hear you got it from your mother, and that you have to sit in that head space 24/7. My relief is that I don't. Take care of you, too. x hugs to you.

treesgrowslowly · July 31, 2022, 12:59:16 PM

Hi Amy-Rose,

Welcome to this site.

I'll share my 2 cents. The reason you feel confused and muddled, is because her behaviour was not normal or healthy for someone her age (i.e. an adult). I say this because of what you shared about her behaviours overall, and also how she reacted when you tried to talk to her about her own behaviours.

I agree with Lilyloo who wrote about how some of this is "classic N behaviour". Yep.

A healthy person, doesn't behave like this. They just don't. She is not emotionally secure enough for the type of friendship you wanted. I would bet good money that she has had these behaviours for a long time. You are not obligated to fix any of this.

A red flag: she wanted you to feel close to her, and to disarm you she gave you things, and tried to appear generous. However, over time she couldn't keep that up, since she isn't actually healthy enough for a reciprocal friendship with someone like you. Narcissistic people will love bomb us at the start, because they need us to feel safe around them. Giving us things, is a classic strategy to accomplish this. A healthy person will be generous, yes, but they will have other 'green flags' that go along with their kindness and generosity.

Anyone can be the target or victim of narcissistic abuse. There are a lot of people like this in the world today. To them, their behaviours 'make sense'. That is why you don't feel better after trying to talk to them about your concerns / their behaviour / the friendship with them. Basically, it is 'working' for them.

You will recover from this. In my experience, a narcissist will be able to come into our lives, and bring something into our lives that we want (initially). It is only over time that we can see what actually happened after we let them in.

You will recover from this.

Over time, you will find that you feel better and better with the lack of contact with her. I say that because I've been on the forum a long time, I've recovered from multiple narcissistic relationships and I've learned that it is indeed very possible to go from confused, to clear, about what happened and how much better life is once we stop having contact with them.

There is research that shows that there is a 'bond' that can occur with a narcissistic person, and that we can end up in the same sort of brain chemistry someone had when addicted to a substance - you may or may not be in a 'hangover' or 'withdrawal' phase.. But that feeling can pass and fade away over time. (you can google "withdrawal after narc abuse" to see more about that if you think it fits).

Your confusion is totally valid! I think that it might be the case where she brought some things into your life, that you feel are important and valuable. But because of her own issues (that you do not need to fix), she wasn't consistent with those things.

For example, years ago I had a new friend, and we shared a love of a certain hobby. At first, I really enjoyed what she brought to the friendship - and we enjoyed our shared love of the hobby. Over time, she brought other things to me - her worries about this and that, her unresolved grief about a death in her family, her anxiety, her need for constant reassurance. Once she brought all of those things over to my "house" (emotionally speaking) I felt like whoa whoa whoa, now it's very cluttered in here. Yes, there is the first thing that we brought to the friendship, our shared enjoyment of a hobby, but now there are all sorts of other expectations here that this friendship is going to be for x and z as well.

Perhaps like you right now, I had a period where I was very conflicted about all of it. I had let this person in, hoping for the best. I liked some of what she brought to the friendship, very very much. That is why I felt so conflicted. There were aspects of the friendship that I legitimately enjoyed. Hence the confused feelings.

You've met someone who is capable of a lot of different behaviours - and not all of them are conducive to a healthy friendship. And that might be putting it mildly. She may be one of those people who runs "hot and cold" -warm and charming one day, cold and distant the next 6 weeks....

You deserve better friendships in your life. I wish you nothing but healing and hope as you process what happened during the course of this friendship.

I let go of the friendship with the person with the shared hobby. Over time, the stuff she 'brought' to the friendship was not what I wanted to 'unpack' with her. We went our separate ways. The confusion lasted quite a few months , but over time I realized I was looking for a friendship with less baggage. I was sad, and still am, about how we couldn't just enjoy the good times together.

But we deserve friendships that do not cause so much confusion.

Trees

Amy-Rose · July 31, 2022, 01:24:49 PM

Thank you so much for taking the time to read and give such a thoughtful, supportive answer.

Something I've noticed in the days after posting this is how much better I feel for writing it down. This question was written out four times because my head felt so muddled. I know this friendship isn't healthy but I kept making excuses for it.

I took 3 days of writing everything down and just condensed it for here. But as I was writing it all down I began to see the toxic patterns I hadn't seen before and thought "WOW! Am I still friends with this very screwed up individual?" This is pretty bad. I get she had losses last year but so did I. Getting it all out of paper and it being 100% true to what happened helped me figure my head out a bit more. Maybe this might be useful for others, just to see how bad a situation is. It helped straighten my head out.

I noticed a pattern of 3 months weekly interaction, then weeks of silence. The silence, this time, has gone on for 6 weeks because she re-homed all her foster pets and doesn't need so much help. My concern is, every time I felt like I was done she'd suddenly show up all nice.

She never totally discarded me. She has suddenly begun liking my posts on social media and sending me cute pictures of her pets that I haven't seen for 2 months. I miss them so bad. I think she's going to start knocking on my door again soon and that realisation filled me with panic. How do I react if she does? Just keep saying I'm too busy? I feel like she tries to keep hold of me through her pets.

Is there a good way to respond if she does come back again?

countrygirl · August 02, 2022, 03:30:12 PM

Hi Amy-Rose,

I so relate to feeling muddled about a difficult friend. I always tell myself that when the bad outweighs the good, it is time to move on; but it can take me time to reach that decision.

What strikes me about your friend is that she is very manipulative. You realize that she uses her animals to get to you, but yet you are afraid of responding to this manipulation. As an animal lover, particularly of horses and dogs, I also relate to this!

If I were you, I would tell her that you are uncomfortable with her sudden, lengthy silences. Say you have enjoyed seeing her and helping her with the pets, but that her withdrawals make you wonder if she really cares about you and/or appreciates the work you've done for her. See what she says. If you just allow her to keep repeating this pattern, you will always feel muddled. Asking her for feedback might bring things to a head for you. You might decide that you can't deal with her anymore, or you might decide that you will see her when you work with the animals, but will accept that she is not a great friend. Or you might decide that you want no contact whatsoever.

Amy-Rose · August 02, 2022, 09:41:49 PM

@countrygirl

Thanks for your reply. I did confront her about her silences and all she said was:
"I'm sorry you feel that way." That was her main response to everything I brought up about her behaviours (inability to take blame or accountability for mistakes/poor decisions, self-absorbed attitude, hot/cold treatment, only visiting when she wanted something. The fact I bought her presents at xmas and I I got back was something out of her house, wrapped up and covered in dust and some chocolates I'd actually given her the month before. (unless she happened to buy me the exact same chocolate back). Not really valuing my time,

Just: "Sorry you feel that way."

She also tried the victim card "I've had a bad year." "I've had a tough life that's affected me. "
Then told me I was unreliable because when she knocked I sometimes not answer the door as I was out. She got all the hours our wasted supporting and helping her with things it seemed. Was I being unreliable then?

I think she uses her pets to hold onto me, like you said, to pull me back in. After a month of little contact with her, it's them I deeply miss. We had nothing in common accept her pets.

countrygirl · August 03, 2022, 09:06:57 AM

Hi Amy-Rose,

I should have remembered that you HAD spoken to her, and that she'd said, 'I'm sorry you feel that way." I replied immediately after reading your post, because it resonated for me, but forgot that. My apologies! And I HATE that "non apology apology," that horrible, "I'm sorry you feel that way," which takes no responsibility, but turns the tables on the other person.

The good thing is that you really see her for who she is. And it's not a pretty sight.

My former friend who treated me this way never thanked me for all of the hard work I put in, either.

I wish you could find someone better who has animals! You seem like such a nice person! But sometimes these users are drawn to those who are nice, as I'm sure you already know.

Amy-Rose · August 03, 2022, 09:19:07 AM

No problem, it was a LONG question with LOTS of information. I appreciate you taking the time to read it and give your thoughts.

carrots · August 03, 2022, 02:53:16 PM

How to react if she comes knocking on your door?
Well, do you still want contact with her? If you don't, I would say so and close the door. Or end the phone call or whatever other means she used to get hold of you. If this is new for you, don't worry, it will get easier the more you do it.

If you still genuinely want contact with her, then maybe somebody else can give you some ideas.

Amy-Rose · August 10, 2022, 05:47:15 PM

@Carrots - Not really. We have a mutual friend and live opposite each other. So no contact isn't really that feasible. I don't want to drag this mutual friend into our drama. She's started noticing me a bit again but I think the main thing is I'm just not much use to her at the moment so she's not wasting her time on me. I'll just stick with the "I'm busy" - which works very well when she'll just show up on my door without contacting me first.