PDs claiming to be “empaths”

[square]

I have seen more than once people who seem to have PD traits talk about being "empaths" and I wondered what other peoples' thoughts and experiences are with that.

One aspect of that seems perhaps connected to that feelings-create-facts trait we see with PD. Some types of PD feel very reactive to the feelings of other people, and find it difficult to individuate their own feelings, or regulate them. So I can really see how some PDs feel like empaths because the expressed feelings of others can have such a strong effect on their own feelings. This is potentially true for almost anyone to some extent, but perhaps more pronounced for many (not all) PDs.

Another aspect I see is some form of overconfidence in their perceptions of other peoples' thoughts and feelings.

My uPPD H had expressed the idea he was an empath about 10 years ago. He is very suspicious of other peoples' motives and honestly pretty insightful (imho) in picking up clues in what people say and other behaviors. He also expressed a belief that psychopaths dislike him because they sense he is on to them.

The fact is, I actually do think he is good at it, but sometimes he is in a certain level of paranoia/psychosis that he is way off. If he's having a normal day, his instincts are very good. He would fit in well here, having been burned by his PD family and seen the patterns in others. If his psychosis level is up, he is waaaay off and is literally delusional, seeing people pull all sorts of evil faces at him (when they may have not even noticed him) and doing that PD thing where he literally thinks somebody said something critical when they didn't.

Anyway, all those years ago I was okay with him thinking he had a good radar for people, but his conviction that he knew things that nobody else knew made me go NOPE. I was not Out of the FOG but that idea went SPLAT on my mental wall and was a clue, right in that moment, that something was wrong.

A note: we are all surely guilty of being overconfident in our skills to Google diagnose everyone who crosses our paths. And we must all remind ourselves to keep that heavily in our minds and not use these ideas for more than just seeing red flags and modifying our own behaviors to protect ourselves and our children. But I don't see people here going around claiming to be empaths the way I've noticed people who, imho, also possess PD traits do. But idk, I could be off base.

[PlantFlowersNotWeeds]

You just described my stbx....He almost thinks he has special powers

[SonofThunder]

Square,

Both my uPDf and uPDstbx are extremely 'high-radar'.  They are finely tuned to facial expression, tone of voice, word choice and body language, as well as very high situational awareness. 

But, imo, they use these readings in a self-focused manner to better position themselves for control, covert manipulation, persecution, gaslighting and all the other reprehensible traits of PD.  I do not experience empathy or sympathy from my PDpeople, unless sympathy allows them to be the rescuer on the drama triangle and then afterward, use their rescuer efforts in expectation of grateful behaviors from the non, and if the PD is not compensated in a manner suitable to their expectations, their rotation to persecutor begins again, which eventually takes them back to home base as victim, where they park until a drama role-dance can begin once again.

My opinion is that some empath high-radar traits are present, but that it stops short.  I believe PD's are proud of their high-radar, and give themselves silent trophies for good manipulation and situational control.  Possibly a PD may look up the traits in which they are proud to own, and find 'empath', claiming empath publicly, both as a self-given trophy but also a label-facade to hide behind for unsuspecting people. 

SoT

[Boat Babe]

The term empath really gets my goat!  (My goat clearly lacks empathy!!!)

[Cat of the Canals]

Another aspect I see is some form of overconfidence in their perceptions of other peoples' thoughts and feelings.

This is my PDmil right here. Absolutely convinced she knows what's going on in everyone else's head (spoiler alert: everyone is obsessed with her and judging her at all times).

I think she has a very loud "inner critic," but she's incapable of hearing it as herself. And it is so loud, in fact, that she believes the message must be coming from whoever she's speaking to or thinking about.

[wisingup]

Wow square - what you wrote really resonates with me regarding my uBPDm.  I've always known she was smart & very capable at doing the things that are important to her.  I do feel like she can be a good judge of people when she is in a calm and 'normal' state of mind.  But put her under any kind of stress and that is ALL out the window.  Rage and paranoia reign supreme around people that challenge her or make her nervous, and she becomes waify helpless around any tasks that she doesn't want to do or fears she might fail at.  She's really like 2 different people - one that I like & enjoy & one that is the biggest source of anxiety in my life.

[gj438]

This is also something I experienced with my NPD coworker/sexual abuser. He also said to me he had too much empathy for this world, and so on. In his case, yes, it was to boast but not only. He also did that so as to manipulate me. He said that he had so much empathy that he couldn't help being overinvolved in relationships and therefore my asking for some basic human decency was too much for him. Or when I was angry at him after he sexually abused me, he kind of also hid behind this "high empathy". He basically used it to dismiss all my emotions with a varnish of altruism. As in "I feel your emotions so much because of my high empathy that I can't take it so just get out of my way". So, to me, saying they are empaths is also a way for them to victimize themselves, and make their real victim think that they are cold hearted compared to them.

[square]

I think she has a very loud "inner critic," but she's incapable of hearing it as herself. And it is so loud, in fact, that she believes the message must be coming from whoever she's speaking to or thinking about.

Wow! That sounds like it could potentially be a factor for H sometimes.

She's really like 2 different people - one that I like & enjoy & one that is the biggest source of anxiety in my life.

SAME <sad fist bump>

gj, that sounds just awful. Abusing you, and then not only turning it around on you but patting himself on the back for it is some real black belt narc level.

[Unbroken1]

Wow. This is my uNPD ex to a T. She would tell anyone about how she was a natural empath and finely tuned in to the emotions of others (true empaths don't feel the need to go around broadcasting that aspect of themselves to the world).  As far as I can tell she is a Communal subtype, which is an overt trait from what I know, but she was skilled at covert NPD behavior as well. I consider her to be a professional victim. She considers herself to be an emotionally superior being, who may let you bask in the aura of her wise and caring munificence, if it serves her. She is definitely projects a Good Vibes Mostly! type of persona. She loves to be the neutral arbiter between conflicting parties in her congregate art studio space and has described herself as "Switzerland" when personality conflicts there inevitably arise among the other artists.

The flip side of that was her paranoia and hypersensitivity to perceived insult or verbal threat. I came to understand that I could not use a certain "tone of voice" which was extremely triggering and which she perceived as being condescending (oh, the irony). In time I came to vaguely understand that the so-called empathy was actually this hypersensitivity to any perceived "negativity" coming from myself or her close platonic friends, one of whom was discarded, before I was, because her friend's husband was in long-term recovery from surgery and being stressed, had probably made some innocuous comment that set her off, or wasn't providing the requisite N supply at the time. The sad part is that this friend and her husband had provided emotional support and physical refuge for my ex when she had fled a previous relationship in which she claimed to have been emotionally abused.

Here is the really weird part: everything I learned about empathy (only child, raised by uNPD/BPD parents), I learned from someone who is a fake empath. She also was so good at projecting this false persona that she was able to skillfully create a false public narrative about how we ended our marriage mutually and amicably, and are still BFFs even though I've been NC for about 4 years. But there is a Hyde for every Jekyll, and that I what I saw at home that nobody else did.

She really should get an Oscar for her performance during the discard phase and the final act of The End: we had started attending church as a means of support when things got really rocky between us. I was enthusiastic about the community support and agreed to give it a try despite my doubts about religion (part of my codependent childhood was a brief spell as a Jesus Freak in the 70s, something my best friend convinced me to do and since it was the era of Jesus Christ Superstar, kind of hip at the time for an eighth grader).

But my ex, as someone who grew up in a very religious family, readily re-adapted to this new starring role and was even asked to be one of the lay parishioners to give blessings by the laying on of hands for "healing" during services, the thought of which actually makes me nauseous to contemplate. Before this she never indicated any spirituality besides word-salady phrases that were occasionally useful to throw around at parties and an attraction to The Secret and Tony Robbins. If you have ever seen Dana Carvey's Church Lady from SNL, you know the kind of smarmy condescension and phony platitudes that I'm referring to. Even a mutual friend commented how weird and uncomfortable she felt when my ex humble bragged about her new Specialness in the blessing role.

Oddly enough, thinking and reading about all aspects of personalities, disordered or not, so much after that experience has led me to the awareness that I am likely an HSP individual and made me aware of the role true empathy for myself plays in recovering from that relationship, and helps me establish healthier relationships while helping me identify toxic individuals. I'm still working on holding that empathic space for her, but it's hard to reconcile given her behavior during the divorce. I know her childhood was as nightmarish as mine, in different ways, but that doesn't give her an excuse for being a horrible person.

[UncomfortablyNumb]

Anyway, all those years ago I was okay with him thinking he had a good radar for people, but his conviction that he knew things that nobody else knew made me go NOPE. I was not Out of the FOG but that idea went SPLAT on my mental wall and was a clue, right in that moment, that something was

My stbx wBPD says something similar all the time.  States he can see/notice things others can't.   Okay then 

[Catothecat]

I've heard them make this claim as well, but in the PDs I've known their empathy is more on the order of someone who's pulling a con on you and trying to figure all your angles.  They may be quite good at it because they train themselves to be good at it.  It serves their purpose and ultimately their purpose only, which is why they're so eager to tell you how empathetic they are. 

[losingmyself]

I think in their arrogance, they say they know how people feel, because that's what they say it is. "you're mad"  "no I'm not" "yes you are, I can read your mind"  They say they can understand other's feelings, but it's just the feeling they have assigned to them.
Did that make sense??

[easterncappy]

I think in their arrogance, they say they know how people feel, because that's what they say it is. "you're mad"  "no I'm not" "yes you are, I can read your mind"  They say they can understand other's feelings, but it's just the feeling they have assigned to them.
Did that make sense??

I never really understood this either. I'm not sure if my mom actually perceived things the way she claimed, or if she pretended to perceive things the way she claimed for manipulative purpose. She would sometimes repeat things that I said to me in a totally different tone than I actually said them in, so maybe she thought I really was angry? Or she'd repeat things she said in a totally different tone from how she said them the previous day... something she literally hissed at me with pure malice in her voice magically turned into a calm, caring statement if I told her it made me feel bad. She'd beg me to "please don't get angry with me!" before telling me things but like... I might be cold with her after two and a half decades of abuse, but I'm almost never angry with her. This leads me to think she is being manipulative and doesn't really believe people are being so vile to her all of the time. I don't know! It seems like both and neither.

Either way, she sure is a mind reader. When I was younger, I'd try to talk her out of some of her ridiculous judgments of people. Now I don't bother. Yes, mom, the cashier at the grocery store is plotting against you and is jealous and angry because of how she handed you your receipt. I'm sure of it. I guess. Knock yourself out...

[square]

I think in their arrogance, they say they know how people feel, because that's what they say it is. "you're mad"  "no I'm not" "yes you are, I can read your mind"  They say they can understand other's feelings, but it's just the feeling they have assigned to them.
Did that make sense??

Yeah, great point. My H does that. Sometimes he's right, sometimes he's dead wrong. I deny my feelings even when I have them because then it will turn into how I caused a problem by being upset.