Why does the system protects the PD?

[escapingman]

SoT, right now with this judge I won't be able to force anything. The only thing she was pushing for was for us both to corporate for the sake of the girls. I have a feeling that anything I do other than working with the social worker will be seen as obstructing the process. Next hearing will be trying to agree a way forward based on the report from the social worker, if nothing is agreed at this hearing I might be able to ask for psych evaluation - I don't know. My very limited experience of the court system so far is that the judge can decide whatever route the hearing should take and anyone that tries to divert from this is reprimanded. I wonder why I paid so much money for a barrister when all she was allowed to do was say "yes ma'm". But should no agreement be reached in the next hearing and we will reach a final hearing, where we will have to be in the witness box etc I am sure there will a different story, and that is probably when all my evidence really will play a part. I don't want to get to that point, but I am almost certain I will get there. If the social worker recommend arrangement in my favour, uNPDx will likely not agree. At the same time, if the social worker doesn't recomment arrangement in my favour, I will very unlikely agree. And as I am dealing with a PD, the only option for her is to win and that would mean I have to lose.

However, I feel better now and with the court case now on a backburner for a few months I intend to rest and recoup my energy. I will very unlikely get anywhere with GC during this time so I will just concentrate on me and DD having as nice time as possible. I booked a holiday in a couple of months for us to go to the canary islands, DD is so excited as she hasn't been to a beach holiday since the pandemic.

The other issue in the divorce is the finances, they are completely detached to the hearings. I will try to reach a deal with uNPDx here, altough this will be impossible unless her solicitor rein her in with her expectations. I really hope I don't have to go to the court for this as well, but as this is not related to the abuse and the children it is not stressful in the same way. This is only money and that can always be handled, altough I need money to provide a roof over my head and for the girls to have a safe place with me.

[SonofThunder]

Understood EM. Thanks for expanding on your thoughts pertaining to my psych-eval question. 👍

" However, I feel better now and with the court case now on a backburner for a few months I intend to rest and recoup my energy. I will very unlikely get anywhere with GC during this time so I will just concentrate on me and DD having as nice time as possible. I booked a holiday in a couple of months for us to go to the canary islands, DD is so excited as she hasn't been to a beach holiday since the pandemic. "

Enjoy the quiet times 😊

SoT

[escapingman]

The no contact order between me and uNPDx expires end of this month, either of us can apply for it to be extended. I am in two minds about this, one is to extend it and make sure there is no contact for another X months, but I lean towards letting it expire and therefor invite uNPDx to trip her self up and initiate contact which very likely would end up in abuse and evidence strengthening my case. At this moment she is very unpredictable and I am not sure she continue down the victim route and keep the no contact, or if she is bussing because of the hearing and therefor will act superior and untouchable and therefor contact me with demands or a possible hoover.

[SonofThunder]

hhaw, thanks for your reply. I know exactly when I should have left and what I should have done, the problem was just that I was not ready back then I was not enough Out of the FOG. I think the problem in general for all us that has got entangled with a PD is that we don't know what to do until it's to late. But at the same time, if I had left by then I would have had no evidence, I started my journal by then instead. But, I would not have given her the opportunity to turn the children against me, or to be honest I am sure she would have managed that anyway with GC. With no evidence I would probably have risked her getting the majority of custody as well, I might still risk it, I don't know.

You are right I didn't know exactly what I agreed to, but I had to make the agreement, at least I thought I had too. Now I am almost 3 months NC (or extreme LC since we have bumped in to each other without talking) and I am feeling better. Today was a real bump in the road but I am getting over it. It was the initial disappointment with the doctors report, but honestly I don't think I seriously can be branded an alcoholic and taken the girls away from me having a doctor incorrectly writing that I consumed the equivalent of 4 bottles of wine a week. Yes it is over the recommendations, but hardly hard core alcoholic stuff. To be honest, I would probably be a better parent after 1 litre of Jack Daniels than she is totally sober. But if I was such a bad parent and husband, why did she beg me to stop the divorce until I got her out of the house? Why did she not try to accuse me of anything until she got the information about the hearing and my accusations of her? I am getting angry about people not seeing what she is doing, it is so obvious to me, it should be obvious to anyone.

Thanks again hhaw for your reply, it is harsh reading but of course you are right.

EM, you mention the order expiring and it seems the judge has almost hit a 'start over' button in the results of the last hearing.  Therefore i will point you to your ☝️reply and therefore hhaw's post to you, in the event it helps you to circle the experience wagon back around and revisit the past to potentially avoid anything you don't desire to repeat.

SoT

[square]

Just my opinion, given how you described the judge I think I would let it lapse.

Guessing stbx will attempt contact then renew the order when she is not happy.

[escapingman]

Thanks for your advice, I will let it lapse and hope she will lose her cool (which is a very high possibility).

I have gone through her financial proposal now when the child custody is a bit on a back burner, it is frightening to see how entitled she think she is. There are so many "errors" in the calculations in her favour, I wonder how her solicitor is prepared to put her name on that kind of things. If we are supposed to negotiate from that it will be a long talk, if we fail it ends up in court and another big chunk of money goes up in smoke - I can't see how she would like that to happen as money is her drug.  But reading her calculations, she must think I was born yesterday. She can get away with that kind of thing when she argues with shop assistants and hotel receptionists, but not me. If I were to agree with her proposal she would end up with about 75% of all money and her income plus 50% of mine for 6 years. How can a solicitor possible agree to put that in writing?

[escapingman]

I had my last session with my therapist today, I am not sure if she gave me everything I needed - but it was absolutely priceless to be able to talk to someone about what was going on. Her last comment before the end of the session was about how she was in awe for how I was dealing with the situation and for not lowering myself to uNPDx level. That felt really good to hear. Since this was through the NHS and free there is not unlimited sessions, but I can ask for more sessions in 3 months time if I feel I need it. However, I might go through my medical insurance if I decide I need more. I feel so much stronger and better now, but I still have nightmares and flashbacks and keep ruminating about what has happened. Hopefully this will settle down now when the court case is on a backburner for 3 months. DD is suffering right now which I am trying to deal with, uNPDx keeps messaging her and she feels obliged to reply but she doesn't want to. We tried to stop this through the social worker, but so far no improvement. Hopefully this will play in my favour in the end, but I hate to see DD struggle.

I booked some tickets for an event in December, I let my guard down and invited another family to join us. What is the worst that can happen, they say no. With uNPDx a no was the worst thing that could ever happen so we never asked anyone in case they would say no. I need to get out of that thinking, I asked as it would be nice if they came but no worry if they say no.

[guitarman]

It's good to know that your session with your therapist was beneficial. They can help guide and support you.

We have a lot to process when we go no contact. It takes time to readjust to the abuser not being in our life so much. My mind still thinks that I am about to be abused and is always on alert for danger.

You are recognising behaviour and thinking that came automatically to you. We may automatically change our behaviour and thinking so as not to upset the abuser or get harmed. We may not even realise that we have been doing that as that became our normal way of life for so long.

I'm glad that your therapist praised you for your behaviour in staying calm and not reacting like your wife does. It can become so easy to do so, but that is exactly what she wants when she tries to provoke you into anger.

I hope your daughter can find the strength to not reply to her mother. I know it's not easy to do. I felt compelled to reply to my uBPD/NPD sister even when I didn't want to. It takes time to alter our behaviour and do what we WANT to do, not what we feel we MUST do to please someone else so that they don't get upset. Your daughter is not responsible for how her mother feels and behaves or how she copes and reacts when she doesn't get a reply to her messages.

That took me a long time to work out. I am not responsible for how my uBPD/NPD sister feels and behaves.

There are boundaries your daughter can learn to stick to in order to protect her own wellbeing. It's OK for her to do so.

Maybe they can be talked about with her. All the boundaries that she is OK to put in place.

My sister's children received frequent texts from their mother. She would text them at work with sometimes over 70 texts in a day! Their mother expected them to reply to them all.

She would frequently call and text me expecting me to reply straight away. I didn't want to let her get angry with me so I would answer. That was before I learnt about setting boundaries for myself.

Little by little your daughter can change and feel OK about setting boundaries and sticking with them.

[escapingman]

This thing about texting and demanding a reply is a "funny" business with PD's. I remember once when uNPDfil was still alive, I was working on a new project 200 miles from home. Whilst in the office he texted me, can't remember what it was about, but when I was out of any meetings I was in I had 2 new texts. The first one I just wrote about, but then another one about 2 hours later. The second text had a line "Your phone seems to not be working". He then moved on to not speak to me for a week or so.

DD is doing quite well with not replying to her mum, but she told me she feels really bad and guilty for not replying, She said she was worried her mum will get angry with her for not texting. She is also panicking about it being her mums birthday soon and she think she is expected to see her and give her presents. I tried to calmly explain to her she does not need to stress about that, an d that right now it is not up to her what happens on uNPDx birthday and that she can talk to the girl from social services about her worries. It's quite tricky and a fine line for me to walk here, I want to support her and ideally keep contact to a minimum, but I also don't want to alienate her and tell get what to do.

Following the hearing everything just calmed down, nothing from the solicitors, nothing much from uNPDx other than the texts to DD. I don't know what to do with all the peace and quiet, I actually struggle right now as I don't know what to do with time and don't want to take on any projects or anything around the house as I want to move. I started listening to divorce poison again, I have 11 hours left of the audiobook which I will try to get through. I have work to do, but I work from home and I struggle to motivate myself right now. I could really do with a much longer break to recover, but I need money as all of us do.

But I realise, I need to try to get a reaction out of uNPDx over the coming months. I need her to trip up and lose her temper, either for the social worker or on a recording or a text/email. 3 months is a long time for her to not slip up, at least if I can try to covertly provoke her.

[escapingman]

This is starting to be interesting, uNPDx is clearly starting to think she has the upper hand following the hearing. When the social worker came here and met with both me and DD directly after the hearing DD made 2 complaints about uNPDx which the social worker said she would talk to to uNPDx about. The first one was to stop sending requests about DD packing up items in the house for her, and the other was that DD requested a letter with an apology before she had any contact with her mum. The social worker was going to see her and GC following our meeting and must have done so by now as it is now 10 days ago. Today DD received an email with a list of all items she expect DD to pack up and put in a box for uNPDmil to collect - at the same time she will drop of some school uniform items. It sounds like DD will not get the school uniform if she doesn't comply. The letter with an apology seems also haven't materialised and instead contact as usual and the end of the email she said she hope to see DD soon. On top of all this, she involved DD and asked her to forward some financial obligations we still have mutual. This is not on, that should be sent through the solicitor, yes that cost a couple of pounds, but she only need to send it to her solicitor to forward to mine who then forward it to me. She should not involve DD, and after this month she is allowed to send that directly to me anyway.

I hope this direct ignorance of the current contact rules and requests will come back and royally bite her in the backside. 

At the same time I have not heard anything about GC from the social worker and another 10 days of not having any contact has gone by. I am getting very frustrated with all this.

[escapingman]

I really struggle right now, DD forwarded the email so I could see what was actually requested. It was also a message to DD about something she had shared with uNPDx yesterday. I asked DD about it and she said she still does some messages with her mum but that she don't want to see her. I found it really hard to read, not because DD has contact, but it threw me back in the time and my brain suddenly craved that kind of attention from uNPDx. It really is a drug as many has explained, and no contact is the only way for protection. Reading the one liner of "niceness" towards DD not only alerted my brain about wanting this too, it also took me straight back to the court room and uNPDx crying and starting feeling sorry for her. WTF, I don't feel sorry for her, I am disgusted with what she has done and for pretending she is a victim in all this. Why can't my brain understand this and just let go of all this? This has just left me quite depressed right now, DD is out right now and I am sitting here lonely just feeling quite crap. I am subconsciously starting to feel left out and wonder what is going on at the other house and how everyone are enjoying themselves. Looking at myself in the mirror and just feel like an ugly useless man that uNPDx always told me I am. Makes me feel no one will ever want to be friends with me or more, even though I am sure it's not true but I feel like people laugh behind my back because I am so unlikeable. I know I need to lose a few more pounds, but I am not that unattractive, or am I? Sorry about all this rambling and self pity, but I am just feeling very low right now.

[PlantFlowersNotWeeds]

I hear ya - and I've been there.

A few days back, my son was over at his dad's, with his dad's new friends.  I imagined this wonderful time with great people.

After a few hours - I woke up.  Any of our "good" times, had an underlying tension because I never knew what would happen - something during the event, a mean comment after, some unfounded complaint  the next day.  I paid dearly for every event that seemed like a good time.  During these times, he better be the center of attention and I be a quiet mouse, so yeah, no fun at all. 

So, this time, my son came home and didn't have to deal with any of his dad's horrific possible behaviors later that night or the next day.  And, I didn't have to deal with any of it.

I've told myself that I am taking a year to work on myself - what do I like to do?  what kind of person do I want to do things with?  who are going to be my friends?  Until, I have a fulfilling life of my own, I don't even want to think about dating and all that.  I need to work on myself - I'm really not in a good, healthy place to be in a relationship.

My STBXuNP may have had a nice little party, but we all know it wasn't with authentic friends and with people that will stay in his life.  He's looking for supply right now - maybe he's found it, and enjoying it.  If so, we all know the cycle.....

We can't help at times to look at them like it's so easy and they are getting away with being so cruel to us, whether it's at a party or family court.  They attract people because they are so fake - it's not real.  Try and remember the big picture, re-read your journals, and it might help you get back into a better space.

[escapingman]

Now this is getting worse.

DD started misbehaving and were very rude to me. She was swearing at me and giving me the finger, it ended up with me having to raise my voice and send her to bed. To my complete astonishment I could see a smirk in her face when I eventually lost it with her. Later when I went up and spoke to her she apologetic and told me how her mum is making her stressed out. I am not surprised about that after the email she was sent this morning. But apparently the only two times she has spoken to uNPDx, one forced face to face and one on the phone pushed by the social worker, uNPDx told DD that this all is just temporary and that we all will be living together as a family again. DD is frightened like mad about this, she does NOT want to ever live with her mum again, she told me she wanted me to get her a new mum. She also told me to sell the house as soon as possible as she wants to move, she is stressed just remembering what has been going on in the house. She used to share room with GC and now she doesn't want to sleep in there as she has so many bad memories of this, the other room she is sleeping in she feels bad about as well as her mum used to sleep in there. When I got into the room to calm her, she was writing in her diary, I saw a little bit on the back side where she was writing and it was "I f***in hate my mum........." .

Why is the social services not helping me to save my children?

[guitarman]

Other people really don't understand the long term impact of having lived with someone with EUPD Emotional Unstable Personality Disorder or NPD.

I am constantly doubting myself about what actually happened. I am doubting if it was abuse as I got so used to all the dramatic threatening behaviour. It all became usual and expected.

Abusers can prey on our vulnerabilities. They are experts in pushing all our buttons to get the response they crave. They know exactly how to twist the knife. They are skilful manipulators. They are even able to turn the situation around so that they become the victim. We can then begin to believe that we are the ones who created all the upset and dramas. Cognitive dissonance and gaslighting can twist our reality. It can all seem so surreal and bizarre.

We need to keep working on building our self esteem. We have been subjected to abuse and trauma for a long time. It can take a long time to find our normal selves again. We may feel lost for years. We may feel that we can't express our own thoughts and feelings because of all the trauma that may have occurred if we dared to before.

Be gentle with yourself. You've been abused for years. You've been through such a lot.

You maybe experiencing CPTSD Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.

There will be times when your daughter tests all your boundaries. She is scared and frightened and feels threatened. She needs to feel safe and cared for. When she misbehaves she needs the security of knowing that you will not leave her. She may fear abandonment. She needs to know that you love her unconditionally, no matter what she does. She's still trying to cope with all that has occurred for years. It must be so difficult for her to understand and cope with. She is still trying to process what has happened. She maybe acting out in order to feel the security of knowing there are boundaries to her behaviour. You all have been through so much trauma together.

Keep calm. Stay strong. Stay safe. Keep posting.

[PlantFlowersNotWeeds]

 

I appreciated reading your thoughts this morning

[escapingman]

Thanks for your replies.

I really need to put a stop to uNPDx having a free contact route to DD, this was already requested almost 2 weeks ago but nothing has changed. I find it astonishing that uNPDx is sending adult stuff through to DD. DD wants some contact, but every time she send something her mum immediately replies with demands. I cannot believe that DD would be expected to collect her and GC's items, pack them up, some of them even requested to be wrapped in tissue so they don't break. And if she can do this, then uNPDmil will come and collect it AND leave her stuff she has been promised for weeks. I am sure that the social worker will manage to not see the abuse for what it is, this is putting pressure on DD with veiled threats. So far the social worker has got almost everything wrong, how can I trust her to recommend what's best for the children and for the judge to be able to rule what is best for the children. They are treating it as we are two adults just hating each other and can't agree, not one mention about understanding this is domestic abuse and seeing the implications of it.

[SonofThunder]

EM,

Sorry if you have stated this before; is your DD regularly seeing a therapist?  If yes, is her therapist able to professionally input any recommendations/truth to a social worker or to a court/judge on what is best for DD? 

SoT

[escapingman]

EM,

Sorry if you have stated this before; is your DD regularly seeing a therapist?  If yes, is her therapist able to professionally input any recommendations/truth to a social worker or to a court/judge on what is best for DD? 

SoT

No she isn't, I have tried for quite some time but no one seems to take it seriously. I have asked the social worker to arrange it, I have asked my GP, I have asked my therapist and I have tried to get it forced through the solicitor. This is now absolutely top of my agenda and I am going to go full out on this next week, actually I am going full out on quite a lot as things seems to be settling down with uNPDx getting it all her way. I am going to push back on everyone, but I am very aware of that if I become the difficult one that could end up against me in what the social worker recommends. I need a therapist not just for her but GC too.

DD is better today, we went to IKEA and bought removal boxes so she can start packing her stuff. She is desperate to leave the house and the bad memories. She got another message from her mother this afternoon asking for more favours and she is just not having it. I am proud of her, but I need to help her.

[losingmyself]

I am wondering....
Can you get DD a new phone, one that STBX doesn't have the # to?
Keep the old phone, to yourself. Maybe this would be a relief to DD. Then X can send as many messages as she wants, but DD won't see them unless they're reasonable.
There's nothing that says you can't, is there?
I feel so bad for DD that STBX is sending her things that are not her problem.
I hope you can find her therapy.

[escapingman]

I have suggested a new phone number before, but she doesn't want that as all her friends now it and also all accounts and apps are linked. But also, for every way I can show uNPDx is not capable of having proper contact it must be a pointer in the right direction. Right now, the more I am encouraging DD to have contact with her mum the more she is feeling let down. uNPDx is incapable of emotionally hold a conversation on DD's terms. DD message her for example a one liner asking her how she is, she replies fine thanks how are you. DD then sends a picture of something she has done, uNPDx replies with that looks great and then moves straight on to asking DD to pack bags of stuff to give her. At this point DD stops the contact until next time, rinse repeat. All DD wants is a mum that cares and is interested in her, we know that's not possible but I think DD must get to the final conclusion (with some help) herself. I just with the social worker could see. Maybe she will understand if DD can open her mouth and tell her everything. But DD has already told me she feels the social worker isn't listening to her and therefor isn't bothered.

It will be interesting how her communication will look like from Thursday when she is legally allowed to contact me again.