Why does the system protects the PD?

[escapingman]

I am starting to lose my hope, it's like everything is setup to protect uNPDx and to put all the blame on me. I am feeling really depressed and got some really badly worded phrases from my doctors report that could really go against me. uNPDx has accused me of many things, one of them is being an alcoholic, made up several stories about me doing things when drunk. So the report from the doctor states I am a high alcohol consumer drinking way more than recommended. WTF. I never told the doctor that, I said when reporting the abuse that I SOMETIMES have a drink or two to take the edge of the abuse. Now the judge will add 1 and 1 and make out I am an alcoholic and probably rule everything against me. At the same time uNPDx has managed to charm the social services lady to such an extend that she has told me to stop contacting GC and only communicate by letter I give to her - but she is encouraging my other daughter to have as much contact as possible with uNPDx, even so much that she made her call uNPDx on her last visit. I could also almost feel that my solicitor is about to prepare for defeat as everything goes against me.

How can they allow uNPDx to blatantly lie, believe her lies and then punish me? The social worker has even listened to the recordings, but instead of holding them against uNPDx she blamed me for not reporting her to the police. Maybe it just is the fact that it is perfectly OK for a woman to abuse a man and I have to accept it.

[guitarman]

It is awful what is happening to you. So much stress and worry about your future and the future of your children.

You need to get your legal team to add another doctor's note. It seems very biased and not a true representation of what you reported.

I would recommend that you contact Families Need Fathers. They are experts in helping people in your situation.

https://fnf.org.uk/

I have heard of social workers not believing men if they have been abused. There seems to be a bias in their training to accept that it's usually women who get abused.

I know men who have been abused by a woman: my father, my nephew, my brother-in-law, my brothers and myself. We are not alone.

Attitudes have to change. I know the majority of abuse is against women but men can be abused as well. The professionals need to open their eyes and see what is in front of them. They shouldn't automatically believe women. I know it's not easy to do. They are the professionals. They need to examine the evidence. You have so much.

[escapingman]

Thanks guitarman.

I really just don't have any more in the tank right now to fight anymore. I know I have to, not for myself but for the children. However I really think I have lost one daughter as no one get it and she is now protected against me. The longer she has been away from me the worse she has spoken to the social worker about me, how can they not see? I have evidence of her and uNPDx screaming and swearing at me, bullying me, belittle me, but she still told the social worker she was scared I would kill her whilst living together. I just got to wonder, if you are scared of someone, would you laugh in that persons face, making fun of him, hitting him, belittle him? To be honest, should it not be some kind of requirement that someone working with children and families with problems have some kind of awareness of parental alienation?

[hhaw]

EM:

The reason your stbx has so much pull in this legal situation is bc you gave her the rope, put it around your arms and legs then allowed her to yank it tight.  When you got the house,. the stbx got the Order keeping you away from her too.... which is sort of an admission she NEEEEEDS you to be kept away from her by Order of the Court, bc there's a reason she fears you and you NEED to be kept away from her.  You signed that and Agreed it was the truth then you celebtrated and prepared for the PD to sign anything you put in front of her to avoid being held accountable in Court,. but her attorney was telling her HOW to stop you from holding her accuntable and you went for it, bc honestly.... it's human nature to avoid the pain of a trail AND you 're a kind person who has shielded the PD for what?  12 years and you're not the kind of person to cause harm or create trauma... you let the PD off the hook but put yuorself on it.... it was a trade and I watched you do it.

You seemed perfectly happy with the deal you made without understanding what  you';d signed away.  Now you understand how it works.

I think you've stopped sabotaging your ability to be heard,  so that's the good news.

In other good news, I think you have enough evidence to win your case at trial, bc the PD will have NOTHING to back up her very dramatic "stories" and the social worker will appear as she is...... a biased witness who's been unduly influenced by the STBX but I remember telling you not to fear this when it happens
bc
it
always
happens
with
at
least
one
person
and in your case it's the social services gal.  At least you know who the manipulated person is and it's really unlikely the PD can fool everyone all the time.... just impossible, really, so breathe and regain your ability to reason and problem solve, EM.

The fact the social services gal has lost her mind means you won't be making ANY AGREEMENTS BASED ON THAT PERSON's opinions or reports.  That's IT. She doesn't get to tell you what you HAVE to do.  She gets to give her "opinion" to the Judge, maybe, if you don't find a reason to discredit her before that happens and you might.

At this point I'm hoping the social services gal is young and inezperienced or really disordered and writes just terriftingly terrible things about you so that it's OBVIOUS and easily disproved when you're INSIDE THE COURTROOM.  A worst case scenario is if she's crafty and understated, IME., but typically when they're being manipulated by the PDs the PDs whip them into frenzies and over the top actions and words that OUT their intentions and bias, which is a good thing for you, though it will feel like the end of the world for a while. 

Sorry about that.  It;s part of marrying a PD, making children with her and coming to a place where no one was safe in the family home and so you were forced to do what you really didn't want to do, hence.... you've been tentative and gentle and done things to avoid getting ahead of the legals......
I think most everyone on this forum did it that way EM. You're a nice guy, trained up to avoid conflict and protect the PDs.

Understanding how that happened will help you going forward.

Do not despair, or... get it over with then come back to center and get copies of the social service gal's report.  That's a really good place to start and I have to tell you.....
you're going to need to ask more questions, get more information form at least ONE attorney who knows the ins and outs of what you're going through or at least can read the laws you're dealing with and tell you exactly what they mean and how they're typically "interpreted" so you can adhere to the language of that law and PROVE YOUR CASE to meet the criteria around that law and law language, etc.

You have the evidence your stbx does not have.

You have your dd's support and testimony and the stbx will be making up so many stories she'll lose track and it will be apparent so many stories CAN'T be true AND why didn't SHE report you?  Why were you the only one who went to the police?  Why didn't she record ANYTIHNG or document ANYTHING or anyt part of her story?

That will all work against her in the court room, EM.

I've advised you to get a second opinion from a criminal attorney or a high powered attorney working in another field, just so you can get the truth about your Judges, about the laws, about the likely outcomes and maybe for referrals to Forensic Ts and people who can help you prove your case.... advocates and respected experts who can TELL this Judge your truth and be understood and believed.

I'm pretty sure you got to the place you're at bc you listened to your attorneys and let them talk you into signing an unfortunate agreement whereby you admitted your wife needed a protective order against you, just as you had one against her, but that was her finding leverage, weakening your case and strengthening her own.

She was never going to give you a divorce without fighting like a wildcat, EM.  I think you believe that     now.  She dangled the house and you felt you'd won, but she got something and you lost something.  Regular attorneys don't GET that and they'll push you to agree to things that add time, trauma and expense to this process.

I think you see how the game works           now.

If you don't, you soon will.

[escapingman]

hhaw, thanks for your reply. I know exactly when I should have left and what I should have done, the problem was just that I was not ready back then I was not enough Out of the FOG. I think the problem in general for all us that has got entangled with a PD is that we don't know what to do until it's to late. But at the same time, if I had left by then I would have had no evidence, I started my journal by then instead. But, I would not have given her the opportunity to turn the children against me, or to be honest I am sure she would have managed that anyway with GC. With no evidence I would probably have risked her getting the majority of custody as well, I might still risk it, I don't know.

You are right I didn't know exactly what I agreed to, but I had to make the agreement, at least I thought I had too. Now I am almost 3 months NC (or extreme LC since we have bumped in to each other without talking) and I am feeling better. Today was a real bump in the road but I am getting over it. It was the initial disappointment with the doctors report, but honestly I don't think I seriously can be branded an alcoholic and taken the girls away from me having a doctor incorrectly writing that I consumed the equivalent of 4 bottles of wine a week. Yes it is over the recommendations, but hardly hard core alcoholic stuff. To be honest, I would probably be a better parent after 1 litre of Jack Daniels than she is totally sober. But if I was such a bad parent and husband, why did she beg me to stop the divorce until I got her out of the house? Why did she not try to accuse me of anything until she got the information about the hearing and my accusations of her? I am getting angry about people not seeing what she is doing, it is so obvious to me, it should be obvious to anyone.

Thanks again hhaw for your reply, it is harsh reading but of course you are right. 

[guitarman]

Please be aware that she might be deliberately provoking you into anger. That way she can get more evidence against you and can portray herself as the victim.

If you contact her she might be recording you so whatever happens stay calm.

[escapingman]

Guitarman, yes I do know this. The way some of the communications from her solicitor comes through is definitely her wording it in a way she knows I know what she is doing. I have not contacted her and I won't contact her, but I am getting angry with the way she happily go ahead and just tries to ruin mine and the girls lives. I am fighting this in the courts as a defence to save me and the kids, she is fighting it just to win and make my life miserable. In the end I suppose it benefits me as I am fighting for my life, she isn't and it shows in her lazy statements. She thinks that she is entitled and right and that she doesn't even need to provide much as she thinks she will win anyway, why wouldn't she as she has always hoodwinked people and won in the past.

[PlantFlowersNotWeeds]

hhaw wrote a very good response to one of my posts from yesterday- here are some points hhaw made

It (court) works well for the PDs bc they don't have to do any trial prep or work to make false allegations and drag their feet, which is seen as a fair strategy in Court.   My STBX did has done this again and again - not to your extent, but enough to stress me out and drag out this divorce.  He throws out these red herrings and then, I have to prove them wrong.  Ugh.  When I talk to my lawyer again, I'm going to absolutely discuss this and request that , at least for now, she make a strong NO to their requests.  Enough already.  Unless something is getting documented, I want to ignore it.

New information, imperfect practice and better coping strategies/ habits (dropping judgment and expectations) come together with radical acceptance and self compassion to combat and sometimes overcome the PD' strategies and intentions......which is oddly everything and nothing, bc it's Learning to accept the reality then rise above the fear/ regret and strife....
Learn to be present in the moment in order to avoid the reactive emotional charges the PDs depend on to remain front and center in our lives.  This is me - I am working on avoiding my reactive emotions - my brain has a 20 year habit which is hard to break all at once, but I'm so much better.  You are too. 

My STBX's actions aren't reasonable, but they have purpose.  To create chaos, to make himself look like the victim, and to hurt me.  Sounds like yours as well?
Unfortunately, you will have to act calm and collected ALL OF THE TIME.  It's hard, but to win the game, I think this is very important. 

[escapingman]

It certainly works well for the PD's, the lies are not exposed immediately and put delays on everything. I reckon her false accusations are going to add at least 6 months (to start with) and tens of thousands of pounds to the process. I doubt she would even be held accountable for the lies if/when they are exposed. During all this time GC is suffering and being turned more and more against me. I have a feeling the hearing next week will end up with the judge deciding that they can't know who is telling the truth and therefor order a new hearing for finding the truth, at least this is what I have been told. My gut feeling is that that hearing will be months down the line and until then status quo will stay and I will have no contact with GC for this time. I reckon I am spending 5 times on lawyers than uNPDx as she just throws out lies and not even defend any accusations I am filing.

My head is all over the place, some moments I feel good and then I feel absolute crap again.

[escapingman]

Just came across this video on youtube, this is probably the best divorce video I have ever seen about divorcing a narcissist. I had already started to get the idea of what Sam is taking about but this is gold dust.

In short if you don't want have 46 minutes to invest in yourself, make the Narc drop the mask in court.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0Z1QLXbb_k

[Rose1]

I have this idea that everyone is scared of a pd losing it. They have no boundaries and escalate to overkill and that's very confronting. So people like to avoid that by giving them what they want. They also probably don't quite believe what we say about the behaviour which is why we shouldn't sugar coat it since 50% of what we say will be discounted anyway.

This came home to me years ago when a guy suddenly went off his nut in a train and threw cans around. When we got to our stop another guy and I went and reported it to the police. We got so much back pedalling (not our issue, check with railways) I was shocked. Then it occurred to me that they don't really want to deal with that sort of person. And sadly 40 percent of their calls are to domestic situations so they see it continually.

In court the judges etc see mostly pd and disturbed people. Everyone else settles their differences out of court. It's hard to imagine 6 pd cases a day but i guess that's what they get.

So getting the pd to show their disrespect to the court system is probably the only thing likely to get a reaction.
My 2c

[notrightinthehead]

I used to believe that I was a coward if I don't fight back. And as you wrote,

They have no boundaries and escalate to overkill

and there was nothing in my repertoire that could top that. So after such an engagement I found myself confused, enraged, sad, ashamed, helpless and defeated.

I have since come to believe that engagement is not the healthy reaction to such a behaviour. It allows the PD to pass their unpleasant feelings on to their opponents.  The healthy reaction is to take a step back and let them act out their drama. Much as a kind mother would with a toddler having a temper tantrum. Slightly amused and detached. Then not show any response and walk away.  The reaction Refuse-to-engage is quite a harsh one, as many of us have learned when they have been exposed to silent treatment.

I believe that law enforcement follow a similar approach. Only when a law is broken, they can act. Bad behaviour doesn't brake any laws, even though it might frighten some people.

[escapingman]

With my hearing coming up I have done prep, prep and more prep. The house is a tip, stuff everywhere, but I don't care, I spent all days reading through statements, talking to solicitor, emails, watching encouraging youtube videos, reading this forum and..... EATING WELL! I started a 5 day water fast over a week ago, the results where incredible. My mental clarity came back, trauma came to surface and I cried, but my brain is focused, never been so focused. Since the fast I have been following a strict Keto diet with intermittent fasting, all to keep the brain as focused as possible.

Being this focused and brain working I have been able to listen and focus to some of Sam Vaknins videos, they are hardcore. But he knows his shit, I don't think anyone else on youtube comes close to him when it comes to really explain what's going on. My uNPDx has really lost her plot since I filed for divorce 6 months ago, and she is getting worse. I have started to suspect she isn't just NPD but that there is something more about her, she is so disordered and so entitled. I have started to get the feeling she is also suffering from ASPD or even more likely being a psychopath. Vaknin explains this very well in the videos I have watched, he mentions there are two types of psychopaths, primary and secondary. A secondary psychopath in his description is the more dangerous and more criminal one, the less successful, and the secondary comes from a borderline narcissist suffering a narcissistic injury. This explains my uNPDx 100%, since I filed she has reach another level in her absolute evilness and lack of empathy. Her entitlement has reached new levels and she really could not care less that she is ruining the life of GC just to win against me. She doesn't care all money will burn on legal costs, all she cares about is winning. BUT, she just expect to win without putting any effort in. She has alienated GC and it's clear she think that will be enough to win the court case.  I am not going into any details as this is not a legal forum, but she has shown a new level of lack of empathy and an enormous amount of entitlement.

I am feeling strong after 3 months of NC, eating better and also doing some EFT Tapping (which actually helps, at least for the moment) and breathing. 

[escapingman]

Hundreds of hours of preparations, hundreds of pages with evidence, voice recordings, everything...... Judge complains about me having to much evidence, blames me for gathering the evidence and then put equal blame on me and uNPDx and makes us apologise in court. I never felt so humiliated in my life, I had to apologise for being a victim of domestic violence. Then we were asked to grow up and respect each other and just get along and work together for the children's sake.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE UK COURT SYSTEM????????

I could have had as many reports from specialists, police, anything, the judge was only interested in us apologising and moving forward. uNPDx obviously visible and loudly applauded the judge decision, this was after she had cried like a baby when she had some fingers pointed towards her. The judge now seriously thinks that GC will be safe in her hands just because she was forced to apologize in court. Who in the right mind would not have made an apology if forced to by the judge?

So now, another 3 months until the next hearing, and in the meantime another report from the social services will be constructed. Judge has made clear she is not interested in anything else than this report, whatever other evidence or specialist reports I could obtain, she is not interested in. I now there are other people on this forum telling me I should have done so and so, but I seriously don't think it would have made any difference what I would have done with people like this.

uNPDx is now bussing as she think she has won and she immediately started intimidating DD with messages about things she wants from her. Hopefully she will trip herself up during this time, but it doesn't seems to matter what she does as everyone just wants to give her another chance and another chance and another chance.....

I was actually feeling quite good mentally going up to the hearing, but now it's like my world just cam crashing down over me and all I want to do is curl up in bed and hide under my duvet. I can't do this as I have DD to look after, but as things are going now I wonder for how much longer.

I am a wreck, again.....

[Associate of Daniel]

EM, I'm so sorry.

There really are no words.  However, I'm guessing your experience is all too common.

Thankfully, I've never had to attend court, but I do know the exhaustion and emotional upheaval that comes from mediation.  I think your reaction is normal and completely understandable.  Take some days/weeks to practise massive amounts of self care and get yourself back on an even keel.  Is there someone who can look after your daughter for a short time so that you can sleep and recover?

One thing that comes to mind,  even if the judge says he/she only wants a certain type of report, it might be worthwhile continuing to get other reports anyway.  There are no guarantees that you will have the same judge at the next hearing, and even if you do, he/she might change their mind and want to see other reports.  I think it might be better to be over prepared rather than under prepared when it comes to paperwork.

If it helps, keep writing here to help process the experience and your feelings.  We get it.

AOD

[losingmyself]

My jaw dropped when I read this, EM!
I am so sorry you're not being heard. Please follow AOD's advice, and practice some self care. I agree that you should keep collecting evidence. There has to be SOMEONE who believes you and will take the appropriate measures to keep you and your girls safe.
God bless you, and give you strength to stay in the fight. We're all behind you.

[square]

EM, I'm so sorry.

[escapingman]

Honestly, I never felt so humiliated in my entire life. If I wouldn't have been in a very stable mental state going in to that hearing, I am actually not sure what I would have done coming out of it. Someone in a worse state than I was in could easy have given up on life as that thought even crossed my mind. What this has done is to make me determined that when this is all done, whatever the outcome, I am going to share my story. Both the abuse and the legal battle. If I can save one person going through what I have done I will have succeeded.

[moglow]

All the periphery dramas ex is creating just adds unnecessary chaos for the court, I would imagine the judge is understandably focused on the legal case at hand. They have to hone in on best interest of the children - the parents have to work together to make that happen, and sounds like they may be trying to drive that point home. Don't let this humiliate or change who you are. It could be that making those statements in court are to make it clear that the judge isn't focused on the ex and her issues. Try and look at it that way and let the rest go when you can.

Trying to diagnose anyone in this situation is unfortunately not of much help in the big picture - you have to work on and care for yourself and the kids. Any/all conversation with ex will have to focus back to them and their needs, coordinating visits etc. Her internal drama, not so much. I'd absolutely keep documenting and making sure that it's via email as much as possible for documentation purposes. Meltdowns via phone or texts aren't yours to fix for her, redirect back to the subject at hand: the children.

It's not going to be easy, I know. I watched/heard it with my parents way back before texts were an issue - I have some letters that are still a painful read. To Daddy's credit, he consistently took the high road and made it clear he was there with us regardless of her stuff.

[SonofThunder]

My jaw dropped when I read this, EM!
I am so sorry you're not being heard. Please follow AOD's advice, and practice some self care. I agree that you should keep collecting evidence. There has to be SOMEONE who believes you and will take the appropriate measures to keep you and your girls safe.
God bless you, and give you strength to stay in the fight. We're all behind you.

EM, do you (or anybody here) know what criteria in the UK court system, can cause a judge to order (or approve a request by a lawyer) a possible psychological evaluation of your stbx? 

For example, i believe suspected drug use (in parts of the USA) by a parent of adolescent children going through a custody hearing, may allow for a psych evaluation. If results come back with a diagnosis that is unstable/unhealthy for the children, that unhealthy parent may find themselves with a court-ordered custody decision favoring the stable/healthy parent. 

Maybe there are multiple criteria? 

SoT