NC when they are elderly ad beginning to have major health issues

[Sidney37]

So I haven't been here much in a while.  Things were calm and quiet and I was beginning to heal.  Here in the past week, PDm and enD have used every way possible to reach out to me.  They finally got through somehow my using a private message on a social media platform and adding other relatives to the very old message thread.  Apparently somehow that overrode the blocking.     it seems that PDm is having surgery but the message isn't clear how serious it is.  Typical of PDs. I left the chat because the blocking didn't work and they were alerted.  They now knew I received s message and s flurry of emails followed.

So I looked in the folders of blocked messages in my email and text.  Somehow my services won't block completely, just sends the messages to folders that I ignore.  There they all were. Most were very recent.

It seems that PDm had a biopsy months ago.  I got a guilt trippy message about that.  I "had to forgive" her because of this.... They were told early on that I had forgiven but won't reconcile without an apology and change in behavior.  It hasn't happened.  No update after the "biopsy".  For all I know it could have been a simple skin biopsy.

Now she is seeing a neurosurgeon 6 months after the biopsy email.  It could be totally unrelated.  But I have multiple emails from both of them about how I "have to forgive" before the surgery.  I can't keep doing this to her.  How she hasn't left the house in weeks over her "health issue".  How enD is failing and can't even walk to the car (i peeked at their church's social media page and there he is carrying a plate at a pot luck, so he's well enough for that).  She needs this resolved before she is "on the operating table".  She... she... she... her needs... her wants... her demands... her resorts to begging in the most recent email. 

Argh!!!!  This could be anything from a simple pinched nerve to a brain tumor.  No apology.  No asking about us.  DH and I are both in PT trying to avoid surgeries from a car accident a few years back.  Not that I would tell her.  I see on other pages that people refer to this as the PD needing  us to act as an "emotional support animal ".  That's what it feels like.  She is begging me to resolve this before her surgery because she needs me to do this in case something happens to her.

I know that someone here told me years ago that NC doesn't have to be permanent.  It can be a daily decision.  Has anyone who is an only child broken the NC because of bad health issues of the PD and did it go as poorly as I would expect?

[Pepin]

I can't keep doing this to her. 

I am not an only child nor have I specifically been through a situation like this but this line resonated with me because of what other people think.  It is a classic example of what they don't know what she has done to you because they were on the receiving end of her "good" behavior.  This, I have lived through.  Even if I had concrete evidence, most would cough of excuses along the lines of: they had a hard life, they are creative, that is all they know, etc. - garbage lines that cause a double wound to the survivor of abuse. 

Many years ago I was discarded by NF.  To me, it became a NC after the shock wore off.  I then made the mistake of opening communication at his retirement because I was invited to attend.  I did have strict boundaries and NF initially behaved himself and then became unhinged.  It took me years to get over the rage I felt at myself for having allowed him back into my life.  I felt incredibly violated and went NC for good.  Yeah, I thought he would change but they don't and cannot.  The get worse with age they love to play the health card.  I don't know how many times over the years I've been contacted over his health by other people and I just don't care anymore.  I choose to stay on my side of the street and he can live his life on his side of the street.  He's already had enough chances to make things right.   

[moglow]

Sid, they don't get it, that forgiveness and reconciliation simply aren't one and the same. You/we can [and often do] absolutely choose to forgive any and all of the past. When someone refuses to change behavior going forward, "reconciliation" [i.e. return to their idea of normal] is still not possible.

You could even ask them, what does "forgive" and "resolve" literally mean for them. And you still don't *have* to do anything just because they may think "it's time." No matter their answer or explanation, you don't have to go back to what pushed you away in the first place. They truly don't understand that their treatment of you personally has pushed you away, they seem to think it a given that you'll take whatever they dish and keep coming back for more. Your first loyalty and obligation are still to yourself and your own well being. That they don't seem to agree with that speaks volumes to their parenting of you.

No contact doesn't have to be permanent - everything is fluid as you want it to be. You can, and may want to consider, contact in case of emergency/actual need. I'm thinking of on a need to know and what you can actually provide basis. Do you need to sit for hours in a hospital in case they want a sip of water or someone to listen to their limitless complaints, or do they need help setting up aftercare? Want vs. Need. You might want to know about their health issues and whatever needs they may have [note: I said NEEDS, not their random demands that you somehow "fix" something that's outside your bailiwick]. You can help arrange nursing care or assisted living, assistance finding someone to address legal or financial matters, etc. I'm not saying provide these things yourself, but directing them to someone who can.

Woman Interrupted was a storehouse of information for arranging cleaning out hoarding, moving, nursing care etc for her elderly PD parents while choosing to not have contact with them herself. It couldn't have been easy but I guarantee it was much easier than pretending all was well to pacify them while their stuff ate her up inside. She found distance and clarity that was pretty danged impressive, considering she was the only one available to handle their late life issues.

[Starboard Song]

I know that someone here told me years ago that NC doesn't have to be permanent.  It can be a daily decision.  Has anyone who is an only child broken the NC because of bad health issues of the PD and did it go as poorly as I would expect?

Did you open my mail?

We are 7-years NC from my in-laws. We recently got a letter telling us she had a surgery scheduled and didn't know what to expect. She'd like to hear from us before then, you know, but since we'd refused any communication at all she doubted we would. And she could "only hope" that when she was gone we'd soften up enough to give enabling FIL the support and love he will need.

We read that letter and destroyed it.

So that's not the thing you are looking for an example of. I know. But I figure I might as well share my own thinking. Right now, there are hundreds of surgeries being performed. Thousands of people die every week. Many thousands are facing their last weeks on earth at this very moment. Many are sad or lonely. Many are poor, or need help. Some are distressed. And yet here you and I sit, not even trying to find those people to help them. Why not?

Well because: they aren't our old people. We are not engaged in a bond of love and friendship with those thousands of elderly people. They aren't committed to us, and sharing in mutual affection. So while we are humane, and want none of those thousands of people to suffer, we are not lifting a finger to help any of them. We trust that they worked hard enough to have a few bucks. That they are nice enough to have at least a friend or two. That they were smart enough to care for themselves.

This is the class to which my in-laws belong. They are no more egaged in a bond of love and friendship with me and my wife than an anonymous sperm donor would have been. They are her biological parents, but they rejected their relationship with us. And her desire for absolution at this late date doesn't make it otherwise. I am happy she has another child to support her and her husband in their late years. I am glad they have plenty of savings and will always be cared for financially.

But anything that would make me want to actually care for them would send me first as a volunteer to a local nursing home, where I'd be reliably treated to more love and respect by other old folks with whom I share no bond of love and friendship.

So there is the view of one who never intends to help them at all, though I would do so in support of my wife if she decided it was the needful thing. I am confident she will never decide that.

[SunnyMeadow]

I didn't have the same sort of issue with my uNPD mother. I wasn't NC - I was VLC but I do have experience with the guilt they lay on you. Are you feeling guilt about her having a possible serious medical issue and you being NC? I guess I'd decide if I want to talk to her at all. Say she does have a brain tumor, is that going to make you want to talk to her? It might and that's ok! You wrote about the temporary breaking of no contact, maybe that will work for you right now. Depends on your feelings at this point. I know I was guilt ridden all the time with my mother. It was engrained in me and she was a champ at pouring it on thick.

You may want to reach out just to see what's happening. Then you have every right to  slam that door shut again if it isn't working for you.

But from re-reading what she wrote to you, she hasn't changed. It'll just be more of the same old crap but probably amplified because SHE is having medical issues. It's a tough call. My sister never reached out when my mom was declining. She's at peace with that decision because she said nothing would have been different.

[Maxtrem]

I can only speak for my family, but many of the PDs in my family have "serious health problems" to the point where they have been supposed to die for over 20 years. Like your mother, their health problems are very vague, with very few details and no formal diagnosis. They also like to mention and point fingers at lots of people for their "health problems" for guilt purposes. It's mostly for manipulation and guilt-tripping.

Personally, I think that the lack of details about your mother's surgery and health problems is a red flag

[Andeza]

She wants her emotional toilet back so she can dump all her unprocessed emotions into it. I mean I yes surgery, it's terrifying, but she should be looking for help from an expert, not trying to bludgeon you back in line with a guilt trip/medical hoover. Besides, all this unresolved stuff that needs dealing with its her stuff, not your stuff.

Time to keeps your arms and legs firmly in the shark cage. 

[lkdrymom]

Why does a health issue change anything?  If you were so important to them why have they not tried to reconcile before?  They want you in their life...but on their terms only.

[easterncappy]

This isn't quite my lane... although, I haven't talked to my dad in months (excluding one time I ran into him), I don't really label it "NC" because I sorta talk to my mom and they live together. But this thread intrigued me.

With PD's, there's really no guarantee that any of their medical nonsense is real. I think this is why my mom accused me of making medical stuff up for attention constantly as a kid. She's gone as far as pretending to go to the ER and inventing new diagnoses that are not real, but sound super official... dumb move in the day and age of Google, but oh well.

Point is, when anyone else says "I'm really sick" or "I have a medical diagnosis", they mean it. But with a PD, it's more likely either not real or exaggerated, and they're only talking about it to get something out of you. I always think that if my mom ever comes at me with some terminal diagnosis and it's actually real this time, it'll be classic boy who cried wolf. If you wanted me to believe you, you wouldn't have spent my entire life making up stories about these things in front of me.

Then, even if it's real, why do they need to be "forgiven" now? My grandma moved away from my grandpa for a couple of years (both are PD, so are both of my parents). When my grandpa had a stroke, he suddenly needed "forgiveness", stopped abusing alcohol, and everything was magically "left in the past". But, ultimately this only happened because he needed someone to wipe his butt for him now. Better his wife than a paid worker, I guess? It wasn't a real apology. There was no change of character. No attempt at fixing what he's done. Everyone is miserable dealing with him but I'm always the bad guy for pointing out that he's never actually made an attempt to right his wrongs, and that I'd stick him with a home aide instead.

I had a friend who worked in a nursing home. She said that "the nice ones get nicer with age, and the mean ones get meaner" - not trying to pass that off as some sort of authoritative psychological statement, but when I asked, it turned out that what she meant was that "the ones whose families don't talk to them make it obvious why".

[Jolie40]

How enD is failing and can't even walk to the car (i peeked at their church's social media page and there he is carrying a plate at a pot luck, so he's well enough for that).

it seems she's not alone since she has enD
so she doesn't need you

what did you decide to do?
did you break NC?

I'm still NC with PD parent who is now in long term care
she calls two of my many siblings up to 50 times/day which drives then batty

she doesn't call us cause when my kid was a toddler, I had phone off  hook during naps times
PD parent could have called in evening when DH was home
instead she said "I'm never calling anymore!" cause she wanted to ONLY call during nap times!

it's ALWAYS about them & only them

[overitall]

Not an only child, but familiar with the scenario.  After almost 10 years of NC, attended several family events where uBPDm and uNPDf attended.  I was pretty shocked at how old and unhealthy they had become and reinstated contact because I felt guilty.  Looking back now, I don't know why I felt that way except everyone kept telling me I would regret not seeing them after they died.  Yep, I stepped back into the lion's den...
I work full-time, while both siblings are retired.  All live local and I was the only one who would spend every Sunday picking up uNPDf to church and returning him home, only to have to endure "coffee hour" with uBPDm, listening to her usual litany of complaints, slights, etc.  It was exhausting, yet I felt that it was something to be endured (don't know why)  Little by little, they reverted back to the same old crap---gaslighting, manipulation, triangulation....UGH...they are only older and more stubborn than before.
My uNPDf messed up...he told my adult child that he is certain that the only reason I was taking him to church on Sundays was because I want his money...(left home at 17 and never received a penny from them for anything).  I am free!!!  I called both and them and told them that I would no longer see them or been involved in their lives...don't want their money and never did, so enjoy your life. 
They do not change...they get older and find new ways to manipulate...they try the "poor me" without the insight to realize how difficult they are to be around.  There are nursing homes full of people who complain that no one visits them....all they need is a mirror to figure out why, but they cannot do it...they cannot change and they will not change...don't beat yourself up over it, it's not your fault.

[Liketheducks]

Not an only child, but an only daughter.   I think there is always a greater expectation for the daughters to step in.

I was VL/NC with my mom when she had a heart attack about two years ago.   I didn't hear it from her, but rather a cousin she had been visiting.  The cousin just so happens to be a counselor who specifically specializes in PTSD.   Just goes to show that evening professionals can miss this.   I immediately phoned my mom....who started YELLING at me that I needed to fix "this".   I remember thinking....I need to get this upset heart patient OFF the phone.   Said, soothingly that it would be ok.    The next day, I phoned the hospital and explained that she had just had a heart attack, was upset when I called the day before.   I didn't want to upset her further, but wanted to get an update.   The nurse just connected me directly to mom....who started in again.   I needed to fix this.   I was the one who needed to do something different.   Yelling, etc. 


At the time, I had just found out my husband of 20+ years was having an affair.   There was no way I had the emotional bandwidth to stretch that far to "fix" this.  Honestly, I really could've used family to support ME at the time.   But, I can't let them know about anything that I'm going through - because it is often used against me.    I called my brothers and explained that I couldn't go be with her.   She was 800 miles away when this happened.   One brother said he couldn't because of work.   The other said he wanted to, but couldn't because of finances.   I offered to subsidize his travel, but no.   In the end, no one went to her.   Which I think should've been a wake up call.   I feel super callous writing this.   

The counselor cousin, I ended up having to block her.   She sent me vicious messages through Facebook.   

Hang in there.   You don't have to do anything.   Requesting different behavior is a totally reasonable boundary.....AND is vastly different than forgiveness.   Forgiveness is so easily convoluted.   Forgiveness is for the injured party....and can be for that injured party alone.   You can forgive your parents AND still have boundaries with them.  The boundaries are for you.     Hugs to you.   

[Sidney37]

Hi all.  So I vanished from here again.  The past 2 times I've posted, it's been so triggering of my CPTSD that I couldn't bring myself to check back in or reply.  That's a totally new reaction for me and I have no clue what it's about.  Has anyone else experienced this?

Thank you all for your advice.  I'm
reading it now and will respond to your responses soon.  Thank you.  I feel bad that I totally stepped away after so many of you reached out.  I'm baffled by my reaction and why I was triggered like this.

So I posted here, went on a holiday with my immediate family and did nothing in response to my parents.  Nothing at all.  I haven't received any more messsges, but the last one said that the only way I'd know if they were dead was to check the funeral home web site in their town daily because no one is going to tell me if they die.  Nothing like more guilt and toxic threats. 

The more I think about it all, the more sad and angry I become.  I looked at the church prayer list to see if she was on it. Their church adds everyone with any type of concern to the list, never takes anyone off even if the person's issue resolved and it's posted on a website that is easy for anyone to see.  She's not on it.  It says to me either it's not that serious or it's yet another manipulation of some sort on her part. 

Either way, I find it aggravating that DH and I have had our own health issues in the past year. We thought he might need surgery, but these messages are all about her.  Without any info or context about her supposed surgery, it could be much less serious than what is going on with DH but there is no way to know because the messages leave out key details. 

I'm here trying to stay calm, use some dbt skills, understand why posting here is triggering my cptsd and keep ignoring them.  Sigh...

[Cat of the Canals]

Hi all.  So I vanished from here again.  The past 2 times I've posted, it's been so triggering of my CPTSD that I couldn't bring myself to check back in or reply.  That's a totally new reaction for me and I have no clue what it's about.  Has anyone else experienced this?

I don't know if this is your experience, but I have moments that I would describe as feeling almost guilty that I'm here. I didn't post for a year or so and then a major family crisis brought everything to the surface again, and I think it triggered my CPTSD perfectionism response. Like I thought I was "past all of this" and NOT, in fact, being past all this makes me feel like a failure or something.

[Call Me Cordelia]

"I haven't received any more messsges, but the last one said that the only way I'd know if they were dead was to check the funeral home web site in their town daily because no one is going to tell me if they die."

Now, now, no need to check daily. Surely you aren't THAT eager for them to snuff it.  But seriously, what an odd thing to say, even for someone disordered. The grieving is a thing of the present for you, rather than in the future. You've begun it already when you first faced the truth of who your parents are, and who they have never been and cannot be. You've clearly chosen detachment from them and are actively working to preserve that detachment, and yet their assumption is that you are still very, very attached. Curiouser and curiouser.

Truly I think doing nothing and going on holiday with your family is probably the healthiest choice you could have made.

As to the forum being triggering... yeah I've experienced something like Cat describes too. Perfectionism is a thing, I "shouldn't" be affected at this point, now I'm supposed to healed enough to be around here to help other people. I "shouldn't" need support now that I've heard crickets for a couple of years. That's not how it works and I know that, but shame is a tricky beast to tame.

[TimetoHeal]

Just chiming in to say posting can sometimes be triggering to me because then I realize yes, it really is that bad, and yes, I really need to deal with it and "should" have dealt with it decades ago.  I feel ashamed to be 50 years old and still going through this.  I posted last year, said I was going in to therapy, and did not follow through because I just wasn't ready.  Now I am at a point where I really don't think I have any choice any more if I am to keep my sanity.  So, yeah, that's more than a little little scary, and somewhat triggering.  Maybe that is part of it for you?  Or maybe you feel you are going to "get in trouble"?  I have had that feeling too, and read others say that they fear their PD parent finding out what they are posting and reading it. 

[Kiki81]

I'm an only child with 8+ years of NC and a 2-year prelim to that.

NC is NC. Without regard to birth order, number of siblings and other first-degree relatives who are/are not on the scene. 

If you want to lift your NC for any reason whatsoever, you may do so. Its no one's business but yours. My suggestion as an OC with 92-year-old parents with the expected health issues of geriatric people, is that you make the decision that works for you and don't candy it up due to only-child-ness which is parsing and tricking up an already complex situation. The most important comment I can make is when this goes badly, do not beat yourself up over it. We are programmed from day 1 to be their possession. Its extremely difficult to de-program that. There's very little help out there for us and society is firmly entrenched in the lie of "sacred parents."

Recovery is not always LINEAR.

You can see by my first comment that I had a 2-year NC with my parents that I relapsed. Over a birthday card from them. That's how hard this stuff is.

[p123]

Get this all the time - its a scam to get you to feel sorry for them.....

Does my head in completely. My Dad seems to think because hes old he can treat people how he feels like i.e. badly.

Then play the sympathy card with a made up illness.

[Sidney37]

I don't know if this is your experience, but I have moments that I would describe as feeling almost guilty that I'm here. I didn't post for a year or so and then a major family crisis brought everything to the surface again, and I think it triggered my CPTSD perfectionism response. Like I thought I was "past all of this" and NOT, in fact, being past all this makes me feel like a failure or something.

YES!!  I think this is exactly it.  I spent most of my 2 years of Covid doing  a personal reset.  I was in weekly therapy and avoiding everyone in my town who had PD tendencies.  Basically I was interacting with 1 person in town and a few out of town friends from high school.  That was easy and honestly less lonely than trying to get the attention of PDs or people with PD tendencies who were rejecting me.

I came out of my self imposed social distancing (avoiding PD people) and felt like I had made such improvements.  I had this all under control.  Posting here made me feel guilty and triggered c-Ptsd symptoms. 

[olivegirl]

When I was diagnosed with cancer and really engaged in magical thinking that my disordered parents really loved me despite all of their abuse, 

My elderly parents shrugged off my cancer.  They told me they couldn't be bothered hearing me cry about the loss of my hair throughout chemo. 

Additionally, they demanded that no one in the family be aware of my cancer because they told me no one really cared about me!   

(I discovered they were obsessed with isolating me from the extended family and didn't want anyone reaching out to me).   

My authoritarian parents who preaches that the Bible teaches Honor your Mother and Father;   

Well, their lack of empathy and need for control was obvious because they sure did not send me a card or any religious momento! 

This is a one-way relationship. 

I am to put their needs first and foremost.  Always.  Because they are superior to me. 

And I am to understand, without a doubt, unequivocally, no matter what, that they will never ever inconvenience themselves in any way to offer me comfort because I am beneath them.     

So now I am truly, thoroughly  free from their mind games, their guilt trips, their shaming me.