Recently realized both sisters are narcissists

[mystic.heart]

Hello, so grateful to've found this forum! My sibs and I are older - in our 60's. It's been many years since they had the power to triangulate or gaslight me, but they do continue to have the power to surprise me with their lack of care, occasional cruelty and with one of them, a 5 year discard. Otherwise, we have enjoyed family gatherings 2-3 times/year, and a text thread with the three of us on it to share things like politics, health issues, etc. That has worked well enough. Now that my eyes are open and I understand them better, I'm having trouble figuring out how (or if I want to) go forward in a relationship with people who's illness is built on an inability to care deeply for others. It's been three months since I've had contact with them; one seems to've not noticed and the other (who blamed & deflected when I confronted her about something) replied with "whatever" when her attempt to hoover me in was unsuccessful and I told her I needed more time.

Is anyone else in a similar situation? If it was 30 years ago, I'd go no contact, but I'm not as sure today if that's the right thing to do.

[notrightinthehead]

Welcome! You have found an informative and supportive site.
I have chosen to keep some people suffering with a PD in my life for now. As long as I can do so safely for myself and keep the contact at a level that does not hinder my emotional healing, I can enjoy their drama. However, I have found that these people have faded out of my life the healthier I grew. I might not have been a good playmate anymore. I focus on my own behaviour and mental health. 
See you around on the boards!

[guitarman]

I have an undiagnosed BPD/NPD sister. I've not been in contact with her for over two and a half years.

If you still want to have contact with your siblings you can limit how often you contact them. That is your choice. It is up to you. You can set boundaries and stick to them.

We can't change anyone else's behaviour. We can only control and change our own.

You can look at the Medium Chill and Grey Rock techniques to distance yourself and disengage.

You can learn not to feed their narcissistic supply. You can learn to remain calm no matter what happens.

My sister knew exactly how to push all my buttons to get the reaction she craved. I learnt not to play along with her mind games.

Your siblings aren't the people that you hoped they would be. No matter what you do they won't change because they can't.

Observe, don't absorb.

Keep calm. Stay strong. Stay safe. Keep posting.

[BerneseMtnMom]

Hi, mystic heart:

I was in my mid-fifties before I realized my family was dysfunctional.  I had been to therapy in my thirties, but it was not until I found my latest therapist did I realize the problems of a family system that supports one or two narcissistic individuals. 

I have gone no contact, but the flying monkeys are coming in from further afield.  I think every situation is different (do you still have elderly parents living?, are there financial issues? are there lingering resentments from earlier days?, is gray rock a good alternative for no contact?), but this is the best situation for me.  Just the existence of flying monkeys tells me to maintain no contact. 

I have found another outlet, and that is my new refuge. 

[thduda]

I went no contact with UNPD dad and two sisters 6 years ago because I was unable to handle the toxicity while undergoing treatment for depression from the childhood abuse (scapegoated). In 2020 after my mom died I get back in touch with one sibling and all was going well (about one year) until I was caught off guard by an attempt to devalue me (very much an old pattern revived). I confronted sibling in a text message and said these were long - standing patterns and that I would have to estrange myself again because I couldn't accept this behavior. She did not respond. So I am happily totally estranged again and will not be open to any communication with the three of them, since they are all narcissistic.

[mystic.heart]

Many thanks, to all of you for your replies. I think it's a separate and sad category to have our sisters as those with narcissism. It's natural to want to be friends with them, but it's too hard. My head is still kind of spinning about realizing they're narcissists. Having asked one for space and watching her replies from a more detached place, I can see the counter-blaming, deflection, anger, hoovering and more anger. How did I not know for all these years?? And how, exactly, does this change things? That is yet to be determined, but stronger boundaries will definitely be part of the equation.

Sending good vibes out to all who might want them! 

[LemonLime]

Hi MysticHeart,
I was in my early 50's when I finally realized my sib had traits of NPD.  It is amazing to me that it took me so long to see it, as I am in the healthcare field.  I credit Google with helping me, as I'd always wondered about her rages (mostly at my parents, especially mom) but after a huge rage at me a few years ago I Googled something like "big tantrum in adult" and found Bill Eddy's site about High Conflict People and then found sites about PD's.  Finally I put the pieces together and was sort of relieved there is a name for it.   But I was puzzled as to how sib "got" the PD-traits, as my parents are not PD's.   Turns out I have an aunt who fits the description of a PD-ish person and also my parents are extremely conflict-avoidant (mom is a daughter of 2 alcoholics and is very very codependent).   So they let "rebellious" sib get away with pretty much everything when we were kids, although it's fair to say I was the "GC" of sorts because I didn't act out at all, having witnessed the conflict my parents had with my sib.   I didn't wanna be judged the same way they judged her.

So it turns out she just grew up entitled, like people do when boundaries are extremely poor in a family.  It's sort of been difficult for me to believe that a family with no "abuse" can produce a kid with such PD traits, but it's true.  Sib is totally bewildered by my placement of a boundary.  She's just surrounded herself with "yes-men/women" her whole life, being self-employed, because her bosses were always "so dumb".   Her hubby is cow-towed by her, and has significant childhood abuse history.   I think her charisma charms him, and he finds strength in her.   In turn, he "has to" put up with her rages.  I've seen her have a mini-rage at him in the past, and he just puts himself down for a nap.

We had quite a close relationship for decades and she "loves" my kids (not sure what love really means to a PD though).   But i cannot "unsee" the rage that she directed at me, and the subsequent hoovering.  When I didn't respond favorably to her hoovering, she turned on a dime and sent me an eviscerating email that left me shaken.   That really creeped me out.....the ability for her to become enraged when her hoovering was rejected.  It is just so very very creepy.  This is someone I felt was my best friend for years....we spent hours on the phone discussing romantic relationships, travel plans, politics, the world.   We shared so so much together and I planned on us helping each other through our parents' eventual deaths/estate.   Now I have no such plans and I am heartbroken. 

It is very sad, as you say.   She has set up a choice for me......a relationship with her, or my mental health.   Not both.
I will choose mental health.   But yes, it is sad.

I'm so sorry.   I hope you have sister-like friends who will be true friends and want the best for you.  Who are mentally healthy.
You deserve it.

[Pepin]

I was in my late 40s when I suddenly made the connection that both my siblings are on the PD spectrum.  Over the years they have both taken time outs with me that actually felt like ST.  If I oppose anything they say, they get angry and withdraw -- because I am not allowed to have my own opinion.  As the SG, of course I am going to see things differently - I was the human punching bag so that they could have it better. 

One sibling is the fallen GC while the other was a very subtle back up GC.  The back up GC lacks empathy and it took me years to understand this.  The fallen GC is terribly bitter and can't stand it that anyone else can do something better or have any sort of happiness. 

[Jolie40]

went NC with sibling 2 mos ago

we had been phone talking weekly
then end of June, sibling went off on me saying horrible things & hung up on me
I never knew sibling had so much hatred towards me

I've also realized how much sibling is like PD parent
very self-centered & a taker but never a giver

[mary_poppins]

Sort of.
Have realized that the brother I thought was more the normal type, with whom I had good experiences in the past is a narcissist. The disorder was always there but it took a while for me to get out of denial and embrace it. Problem was that me and this sibling have the greatest memories together so I'd always think he's just damaged but not PD. However, my interaction with him since the start of the pandemic cleared showed he has sided with our dysfunctional family and is now their supporter. He actually embraced them and discarded me.

I'm sorry you need to go through this realisation, I know how much it sucks.
If NC is needed then I am sure it will be doing you good.

Take care.

[mary_poppins]

Hi MysticHeart,
I was in my early 50's when I finally realized my sib had traits of NPD.  It is amazing to me that it took me so long to see it, as I am in the healthcare field.  I credit Google with helping me, as I'd always wondered about her rages (mostly at my parents, especially mom) but after a huge rage at me a few years ago I Googled something like "big tantrum in adult" and found Bill Eddy's site about High Conflict People and then found sites about PD's.  Finally I put the pieces together and was sort of relieved there is a name for it.   But I was puzzled as to how sib "got" the PD-traits, as my parents are not PD's.   Turns out I have an aunt who fits the description of a PD-ish person and also my parents are extremely conflict-avoidant (mom is a daughter of 2 alcoholics and is very very codependent).   So they let "rebellious" sib get away with pretty much everything when we were kids, although it's fair to say I was the "GC" of sorts because I didn't act out at all, having witnessed the conflict my parents had with my sib.   I didn't wanna be judged the same way they judged her.

So it turns out she just grew up entitled, like people do when boundaries are extremely poor in a family.  It's sort of been difficult for me to believe that a family with no "abuse" can produce a kid with such PD traits, but it's true.  Sib is totally bewildered by my placement of a boundary.  She's just surrounded herself with "yes-men/women" her whole life, being self-employed, because her bosses were always "so dumb".   Her hubby is cow-towed by her, and has significant childhood abuse history.   I think her charisma charms him, and he finds strength in her.   In turn, he "has to" put up with her rages.  I've seen her have a mini-rage at him in the past, and he just puts himself down for a nap.

We had quite a close relationship for decades and she "loves" my kids (not sure what love really means to a PD though).   But i cannot "unsee" the rage that she directed at me, and the subsequent hoovering.  When I didn't respond favorably to her hoovering, she turned on a dime and sent me an eviscerating email that left me shaken.   That really creeped me out.....the ability for her to become enraged when her hoovering was rejected.  It is just so very very creepy.  This is someone I felt was my best friend for years....we spent hours on the phone discussing romantic relationships, travel plans, politics, the world.   We shared so so much together and I planned on us helping each other through our parents' eventual deaths/estate.   Now I have no such plans and I am heartbroken. 

It is very sad, as you say.   She has set up a choice for me......a relationship with her, or my mental health.   Not both.
I will choose mental health.   But yes, it is sad.

I'm so sorry.   I hope you have sister-like friends who will be true friends and want the best for you.  Who are mentally healthy.
You deserve it.

LemonLime, it is sad I know. I also have a sibling that I decided to go NC with that didn't seem PD at all. We also spent amazing times together abroad, we'd advise each other on our love lives. We'd treat each other in expensive restaurants. However, as of lately he not only sided with my PD mom, he demands to 'correct' my behavior towards her and be the silly, abused, caretaker daughter I always was. It is so very painful to be hurt and diminished by a sibling you thought the world of. So I get it. For me there's not going back to a relationship with him.

And as for you wondering how someone can turn PD when the family was not made of PDs-if someone is spoiled and made to feel they are entitled to anything they want, they can turn PD. I wrote an article once about what happens when you spoil and praise your child too much. When they grow up knowing they're the most special person-yep, they become a narcissist. So I do believe is possible.

[Amy-Rose]

It depends on their level of toxicity.

Not NPD but one of my sisters is a real trouble maker and has constant drama in her life for you to listen to or drag you into. She's very good at taking OVER your life with hers, but treating yours like it's nothing. However, if I see her only twice a year (mother's birthday & christmas) it is usually ok. I can go with limited contact as she never tried to get more contact going.

My other sister I have to be more careful with and even the rest of my family has gone no contact with her. It can be very difficult to work with unhealthy people, whether they are family or not.