Family crisis unfolding

[pianissimo]

So, we have a situation here. It's something triggering for me, makes me feel suffocated and guilty, and self destructive.

Bear in mind that I don't live in the US, and things are structured differently where I live.

My mother took university exams this year. I had a feelings she might go for the university I'm employed, and I was dreading it ever since she told me about it, but I was half hoping I was just being paranoid about the whole thing, and thought it was too soon to make a fuss. So, the results were in today. I was wrong, she didn't go for where I work, she picked a university that's an hour away from me. She texted me the results, and I phoned her to confront her straight out. I actually did this to discuss what could be done for the situation, like, to see ahead. But, I think she got defensive, and said she didn't even know her choice was that close to me. She also assured me that her situation would have nothing to do with me, but, I can't see a scenario me not getting involved in it if she decides to enroll there.

Strangely, a part of me is relieved. I have been staying away from parents for such a long time. I haven't let them ever visit me where I live since I started working here. It's been five years. When I visit them, I stay for two days maximum, and there is a part of me that wants to stay more, but is afraid this will bring trouble. So, I was right, I'm not crazy. There is something wrong in the picture.

The emotional baggage here is, my mother is a very unhappy woman. She always wanted to study a degree and find a job, and there were huge fights about this when I was a child. Here, there is gender discrimination against women in education and employment, and this was more severe in the past. I have always felt bad for her. In the current situation, I might have enabled her, because, she told me about her plans to take the exam (she hadn't told anybody else in the family), and I didn't make it a big deal. From my perspective, I'm not in a position to advise her about the situation, and she never consulted with me to begin with, she just told me what she was doing at the last minute, possibly for support? I mean, even now, I wish her the best in her pursuit, but she's such a difficult person to live with. The way she did this ignores every boundary I drew so far. Let's not talk about the emotional boundaries.

So, I have another feeling that makes me think I might be paranoid, but I'm afraid my father, who has always been against her attempts to study or work, will give a green light to this plan, because then she would live with me. For him, this might count as "keeping an eye on me".  Oh, I'm just realizing this will me my mother's angle when she negotiates with my father about her decision. 

This whole situation makes me feel trapped and suffocated.

Any thoughts?

Can you think of any way to put whatever going on aside and mind my own business? I'm scared.

[Andeza]

She isn't allowed to cross your threshold. First and foremost you need that boundary. That way you feel safe in your own home. If she winds up on your doorstep, do not invite her in. Your job is to take care of yourself, and her job is to take care of herself. If she wants to go to university and get a degree, she can be a big girl and handle her own housing, transportation, etc.

The best way to not need to think about, it is to already have a plan. Write it down somewhere. If she does X,Y, X, you will do A, B, C. This will give you clarity in potentially emotionally charged moments.

[NarcKiddo]

 

It sounds like she has not (as yet) suggested anything that actually crosses your boundaries. So take a deep breath and plan what she might say and what you will say in return.

[pianissimo]

Thank you guys for your replies.

A crucial decision I will have to make is whether I will say "No" to all this. She doesn't have the resources to study away from family home. I can't imagine her moving to the university precinct on her own. It's far, and, it would be expensive for her. I think she would need father's support. And, from her point of view, my father's concern for me living by myself bags it. There is room for emotional manipulation here. Plus, my father's controlling nature plays into her hand. If my father agrees, there is a solid plan for her to enroll. Everything would be up to what I would say to the plan. So, my "No" would not be against an idea, it would be a "No" against a real plan that has thirty years off her effort and the family emotional baggage behind it. Plus, at that point, she would have created a de-facto situation to not take my "No" for an answer, so I would have to expect a big reaction. I guess, the question is, how do I say "No" when it comes to that point, the point where my father is in it.  When it comes to "No", I'm in the FOG. She seems to have made plans, so she knew what she was doing. Still, I'm afraid she would lose it if I said "No", not in a way that affects me, but, her.

[bee well]

Hi pianissimo,

I can see where even the thought of your Mom getting into your space would make you anxious. It might be that there is an unspoken societal expectation that you would open up your space and offer to help even with out being asked, and so it would be uncomfortable to anticipate other peoples' comments (epecially your parents') if you don't. ( I could be off base, just guessing.)

So you might be anticipating comments like "Oh, why aren't you staying with pianissimo, they live so close to ___X___university.

Saying nothing about it might be uncomfortable, but probably less uncomfortable than what would happen if you volunteered your "help". You could practice over and over in your mind what you would say if someone happens to ask you uncomfortable questions. (Saying the information and then just leaving it it at that, no JADEing.)

(As NarcKiddo said, since nothing has happened yet you can " take a deep breath and plan what she might say and what you will say in return."

Getting into a difficult situation just to avoid feeling badly about not offering to help, in my experience, is much worse than whatever opinions people might potentially have about you not opening your space.

Remember, your space is your space, you aren't a horrible person for wanting to keep your peace.

I hope that helps some...

[pianissimo]

Thanks bee well, the problem here is that her doing this on her own won't be an option. My boundary=she can't study.

About speaking up, clarifying this situation is beyond me. I called her, but we didn't have a conversation that enables me to say "Mom, you can't stay", she denied that was her intention. That was her strategy with my father back in the day too. She waits until last minute, like she did with this situation. She could have asked me long before, and we could have this discussion. But, no, she first made sure she got in, so that it's more difficult for me to say "no". In this phone conversation too, I didn't have a chance to refuse her because she said she didn't intend to stay with me. But, my guess is, she will talk to my father, decisions will be taken, then, they will ask me. She's crossing my boundaries by not asking for my consent, by not negotiating with me, by creating de-facto situations. Then, she asks for consent, but at that point, it's rather pointless to do that, because she's already gotten what she wanted, and, if you say "No", you are taking it away from her. There is no conversation here.

The way I could clarify this situation for all would be to change accommodation. Currently, I'm living in an apartment. There are hotel-type accommodation for staff. If I moved to one of those, the problem would be solved on my side. But, I would totally resent it.

[NarcKiddo]

It seems to me there are two possible options in terms of how things proceed from here.

a) you wait until someone makes an unpalatable suggestion and then you say "no" if you dare to and if you don't dare to then you let your boundary get breached.

b) you take comfort from the fact your mother said her decision does not affect you. You contact her again to say something along the lines of you're sorry the last conversation turned out a bit confrontational but you were worried she might have been relying on your help. She made it clear that she is not relying on you and her situation and plans have nothing to do with you. So you are really glad she is doing this for herself and you are really proud of her and you wish her well. If your relationship warrants it you might ask her where she actually is planning to live, and how she will finance that, to sound her out in case there are already some noises about her coming to you.

Option b) would have the advantage of you making your stance completely clear up front before she has time to get your father to buy in on the basis she lives with you and then uses that as a stick to beat you with.

Does she know where you live/what your home is like? Is there even space for her if you did want her to come? Could you claim there isn't?

[moglow]

Let's not kid ourselves here - She just happened to choose a school in your area? She's planning to leave dad and live with you while she pursues this dream, however long that might be? Are there no viable options near her, where she can stay in her own home with her husband? Logistically, even if it's her plan how reasonable is it for her to commute from your place to her chosen school?

You weren't consulted about her plan to stay with you, so it doesn't exist. She wasn't invited and you didn't discuss it. If approached about it, I'd say just that: You still wish her well in her chosen pursuit, same as you would want from them. Whatever bargaining/lying she does with your father isn't yours to resolve. If she's dug this hole for herself, you don't have to fill it.


One thing that does concern me - does dad provide any support for you, pay the rent, etc.? That could complicate things and I'd recommend you start changing that ASAP.

[square]

A thought I had was to brainstorm, write down, and practice a series of sentences that put the responsibility back on her (where it belongs).

"It's too bad you didn't discuss your plans before, as I could have told you it wouldn't work out."

"I'm not sure why you would have gone to all those steps knowing you didn't have a place to stay."

"It sounds like your plan was to surprise me with this in hopes I would be too scared to say no."

"If you had told me before you did XYZ I could have saved you the trouble."

And so on. The goal being to frame her as the active party imposing on you rather than her frame as the pitiful victim of your callousness.

[moglow]

   And come up with counters should they try to yeah but or guilt trip you. This isnt your circus or your monkeys.

[pianissimo]

Thanks everyone for support.

NarcKiddo, when I called her, I asked her if she thought she could stay with me, and, when she said "No, of course not, that didn't cross my mind, why would you think of me that way, I was just sharing good news", I asked her what her plan was. She said she would figure it out in time. Our situation is, she knows I won't want her with me, and I know there is no other way for her to do this. To me, this is her not taking "No" for an answer. They know I live in an apartment. I probably divulged that information when parents showed concern for my living standards.

Moglow, I don't know about those aspects. This issue has a history. It's all mixed up. Is it reasonable for her to do this? I don't know. I can think of ways for her to do this, but that would include father who has always been against the idea.
Thankfully, I'm financially independent.

Thanks Square. If it came to saying "No" to her when everything is planned for her, it would be a sad outcome. But, it's kind of true that I actually haven't played any part in this. I was distant, so it was unreasonable for her to make plans relying on my help. I think she dropped lines about her already planned attempt to take exams, and interpreted my "OK" as "go ahead", but, in reality, I had nothing to say because we have no relationship.

I also feel like writing down something I realized. I think I'm craving emotional safety. For me, I think, it's not just about whether she shows up,  it's the possibility too. What upset me is that I would have to put up a fight for my space, and this alone feels like I'm attacked, that I can't feel OK about being on my own, that it's a question mark. I really need to feel like nobody will bother me, and it feels unfair that I couldn't get that.

[square]

Just rephrasing a few of those if you decide to say no:

"I'm surprised to hear that since you had said you were not planning to stay with me."

You get the idea. Even if you soften the words a lot, if you decide to say no, you might benefit from practicing some responses that put the onus back on her rather than leaving you squirming and trying to defend yourself from "how could you do this to your mother?" and "now I won't be able to do this at all, my dreams are broken."

It is her poor planning, or rather her active planning to manipulate and exploit you rather than take responsibility for herself, that is the problem. But with the toxic system everything is turned upside down so you are expected to explain yourself. As an outsider, I see it differently, I see her having to explain herself.

[pianissimo]

Hi square

As a solution, I'm thinking of moving... again. This was on the cards anyways, but I had kind of hoped I could stay where I am longer than a year this time.

I think the problem here is not about saying "No", the problem is the potential tantrum that might come after. If I wait until the question pops up, she will have made arrangements, will have gotten her hopes up, and a "No" from me would trigger a big reaction.

But, if I declare I'm moving... This might still trigger a tantrum if I'm honest, because, let's admit it, she has plans. But, I could nip it in the bud.

I'm wondering if I would still go ahead with moving if she changed her mind about all this, and I think that I should. What she's doing here isn't OK.

[square]

We all understand that saying no isn't the problem, it's the price to pay. You should not have to pay any price for it, but therein lies the toxicity.

I think moving is potentially a reasonable plan (though shocking how much PD behavior can upend one's life). Here are a few questions to consider:

1) Will it end the question of her moving in? How far away would you move whereas it's still convenient to your work but no longer feasible for her to commute to her prospective university?

2) Are you going to have to pay an equal price for moving versus staying and refusing to host her? In other words, if you go to all the trouble, cost, inconvenience, will she then merely grumble a bit but overall let it go, or are you going to hear for the rest of your life how you ruined hers anyway? On the flip side, even if she does that, will you feel more comfortable with yourself having simply moved rather than saying no?

[pianissimo]

I don't know what's the right thing to do.

1-The type of accommodation I choose might remove that possibility.
2-I think I would reduce my contact further if I moved.

While writing about the situation, I realized she's casting me as a rescuer.
I also realized, I'm acting out of a childhood trauma. I'm terrified of her sadness.

[moglow]

Pianissimo, I know you don't truly believe this yet but you're not responsible for her happiness nor are you responsible for her sadness. She is - she's an adult just like you are, albeit an adult who's somewhat lacking in certain basic skills. You can't spend your life trying to not make her sad and  disappoint her if her mission is to BE sad and disappointed.

We've all [I feel fairly safe in saying] been trained and programmed to fix, take care of, tiptoe around, pander to, etc our PD parent. We're held accountable for their every tear, fear, quiver and mood, while damned little attention is paid to how all this affects US. Because of that, we're ill equipped to stand up for ourselves and think we really do have to do whatever they say. Let me say it again - No one has the right to make plans for your life and your home but you.

I feel like at some point you're going to have to face this head on with her and make it absolutely clear that she / her stuff is not yours to carry, that she doesn't get to assume or commit you to anything. I can see them trying to bargain their way into this, offer to pay housing or whatever to compensate, and for you that answer still needs to be no. You're considering moving to get away from this, to find safety and peace. That tells me just how much No goes into this. Honestly, if she gets upset and unloads on you, she just does. She was going to, if not over this then something else and probably when you're much less prepared to deal with it.


Sit with all this. Breathe. Find your center. Remember that you're an independent adult who needs make no apologies to anyone, most assuredly not over the right to live your own life in peace. You're not alone and we're here with you.

[Leonor]

Hello pianissimo,

I'm going out on a limb here and bet dime for dollar that your mother is not going to study at university. She may get accepted and pick her courses and pack her suitcases, and make this big Show of Guilt and Drama and Dream-Deferredness, but still she is not going to set foot on campus.

It doesn't make a darn bit of sense. After 30 years, now, all of a sudden, she's going to up and move out of her house in this very traditional culture with a very traditional husband and go pursue her dreams of intellectual inquiry like some kind of bohemian eccentric? Or is she going to pursue a high-powered career in tech, or perhaps a noble vocation in medicine? This old woman who is incapable of even finding her own apartment? With your father's full support for his forward-thinking, strong-willed, glass-ceiling breaking wife?

Yeah right. 

So let's put this little dog and pony show aside for a moment.

It's a very powerful realization to understand that your mother's unhappiness terrifies you.

That's very interesting. When you were little, what happened when your mother was sad? How did you know she was sad? What did her sadness look like? What went on in your house? What were the potential consequences?

If you don't remember anything ("Well, nothing, really, I'm just a good daughter, I guess") let this silly scenario play out in your head: let's say you say no. Mom cannot live with you. Upset. And ... ? Anger. And ... ? Guilt. And ... ? Mother's dreams crushed. Father's indignation inflamed. Daughter's cold heartedness laid bare for all to condemn.

And ...?

Mom is not going to college, but this moment promises quite an education for you, dear pianissimo.

[pianissimo]

Hi everyone

I slept on it, and moving still feels like the ultimate solution. I don't know if I will do it though. It would be crazy to do that, but I would feel a lot better if I could.

I don't feel like going for a "No", because I'm afraid this would still leave room for her, and perhaps my father too, to maneuver. Moving feels like the badass option to me.

The thing that's bothering me right now is not her showing up. I'm bothered with what she did so far. She's trying to manipulate me into behaving in a certain way. She's doing that with the limited contact I have offered. She also has no problem guilting me, and she's doing that with her actions. Plus, this is an emotionally painful place for me. So, I'm mistreated as it is. There is no need to wait for her to make the next move. She already did something harmful to me. I should take protection now.

In relation to moving, I have something on my mind, and it feels like perhaps this could sort things out at everybody's end.

[Cat of the Canals]

Just my two sense on the idea of moving away and reducing contact: Four years ago, things came to a head with my PDmil and PDmom. It's a long story, but it became clear to me and my husband that nothing would change if we stayed within driving distance of them. We truly felt the only way to find peace was to move far away. So we did.

I'll be honest... there were days right after the move where we wondered, "Was that too drastic? Were we overreacting? Couldn't we have set stronger boundaries with them instead of 'running away?'" But there have been a hundred times more days where we say, "I am so glad we did this." The peace of mind that comes from knowing they can never barge into our lives on a whim ever again is priceless.

[pianissimo]

Thanks Cat of the Canals. I intend to go with instinct too. In my case, I'm already away. Moving away didn't work

I calmed down a little. Life is going on.

I'm thinking of giving myself permission to do whatever works for me. Also, if I can't manage to get away, I won't make what's happening about me. I think that I already did everything I could.

Edit: Today, I have also had this notion that, all this time, she was interacting with me as a potential target to exploit. I can't wrap my mind around this.