Parents knowing "the real you"

[easterncappy]

I started journaling so I won't subject you all to my loooong posts anymore. Unless something terrible happens. I have been getting my baby's room ready and talking to my mom less and less and I'm feeling mostly good.

Something that's been on my mind lately is this idea that my mom and dad always knew "the real me". Or that something I was doing "wasn't myself". Much like their constant accusations of me being "unpleasant", I took it really personally and wondered what I was doing wrong and how I could fix it.

I now realize that to them, I was "myself" and "the real me" when I played into the family system a lot better. "The real me" was supposed to be one more generation of dysfunction, another girl who grows up to have no backbone, offers her children to alcoholics and child molesters, and so on.

I posted before about the day I confronted my mom about all of my dad's abuse and how I felt in our family, when I was in my late teens, and instead of getting support, she victim blamed me (among other things)... that was the day that, on some level, I realized I can't ever have a normal relationship with her, and my journey into websites and content for adult children of abusive parents started. In and Out of the FOG for years until I finally moved out and it was fully safe to be entirely out of it.

But that was when a lot of the "this isn't you" and "calm your puberty" (my dad always said the second one as if I was still a rebellious teenage in my mid 20's - yes, it sounds stupid, because it is stupid) really became common in our household. They always missed "the real me"... but at the same time, they really hated taking care of an actual child. Play and age-appropriate conversations were just beneath them and they made sure I felt bad for ever wanting those things. I don't know at which point they actually even liked me since it seems like I was always wrong for some reason or another.

Is there a word for this? Is it a part of something greater, with more depth to it than I'm really able to figure out right now? It took me almost 10 years to figure out that one of my mom's fake stories about me was a power play. I'm never looking for excuses for their behavior, but I sure do want to understand as much of it as I can. Did anyone else get the "this isn't the real you" treatment?

[moglow]

Mine sort of tried that one, mainly implied that others were to blame for our relationship and that "someone must have said something!!" There was no acceptance that individuals were different, that the image she had painted in her head wasn't necessarily reality. She fed a big fat denial sandwich and seemed completely unable to separate herself from others. Don't get me wrong, she wasn't all that interested in US as people but rather the image, the belief that we were mere extensions of her and supported her every word, deed and thought.

The problems began when we spoke up, pointed out the inconsistencies or unreasonableness, when we became separate beings who didn't cater to and swallow every aforementioned word, deed and thought. And she wasn't just that way with us - it was same with every "friend" I ever knew her to have. She blamed our friends, partners, spouses for the "distance" and threw down some ugly tantrums here and there trying to drive wedges between us and others.

A lot of what I remember were her recitations of unspoken expectations of how things should be, assumptions of how others think and feel rather than simply asking or stating that she'd like this or that. She works herself into a mad over "traditions" but has no realization that we don't *have* traditions as a family.

It's not that you/we weren't "ourselves" - we weren't their assumptions of who they painted us to be. Not the same thing. Projection maybe?

[Liketheducks]

Ditto here.   Mine would tell me I wasn't myself when I didn't fit into the family drama triangle in the way she expected.   She has gone as far as saying "you're so unattractive when...." I hold ANY kind of boundary.   I'm grateful that we're VLC now.

[Cat of the Canals]

I think there's a gaslighting/brainwashing component. They're sending the message that if you don't play the role they've written for you, there's something "wrong."

If I assert anything about myself that my mother doesn't approve of, she's quick to question it. "That's not true!" "Since when?!" "You LIKE that???"

I've said before that when we had a political disagreement, my mother wondered to my other family members if I had been brainwashed. The irony is that the only person who's ever attempted to brainwash me is her.

[moglow]

They're sending the message that if you don't play the role they've written for you, there's something "wrong."

If I assert anything about myself that my mother doesn't approve of, she's quick to question it. "That's not true!" "Since when?!" "You LIKE that???"

Mine pushed these to the point that I stopped sharing opinions of anything including weather! I stopped responding to her insistence that I "had to" do this or that, just let her blather on while I continue to act like an adult.

She used to call me in an all out panic at the first sign of any storm - me, I like thunderstorms, always have. I don't want to be out in or drive in it, no, but I can appreciate the majesty of it all. [That made me "weird," her word. She delighted in repeating weird later, after I'd told her how it made me feel.] We live in an area known for bad summer weather systems, and I'm very near the coast. I'm not that far from her as the crow flies and lived most of my life where she is now.  A particularly bad one hit a few years ago and she flat out told me later I have no idea what it's like, have never been there. Really? Really. I wasn't THERE! Never mind that I worked emergency operations for years and she knows this ...
Silence can be a good thing. 

[easterncappy]

Mine sort of tried that one, mainly implied that others were to blame for our relationship and that "someone must have said something!!" There was no acceptance that individuals were different, that the image she had painted in her head wasn't necessarily reality. She fed a big fat denial sandwich and seemed completely unable to separate herself from others. Don't get me wrong, she wasn't all that interested in US as people but rather the image, the belief that we were mere extensions of her and supported her every word, deed and thought.

The problems began when we spoke up, pointed out the inconsistencies or unreasonableness, when we became separate beings who didn't cater to and swallow every aforementioned word, deed and thought. And she wasn't just that way with us - it was same with every "friend" I ever knew her to have. She blamed our friends, partners, spouses for the "distance" and threw down some ugly tantrums here and there trying to drive wedges between us and others.

A lot of what I remember were her recitations of unspoken expectations of how things should be, assumptions of how others think and feel rather than simply asking or stating that she'd like this or that. She works herself into a mad over "traditions" but has no realization that we don't *have* traditions as a family.

It's not that you/we weren't "ourselves" - we weren't their assumptions of who they painted us to be. Not the same thing. Projection maybe?

Mine too. Friends and boyfriends were all "trying to brainwash/turn me against her". But we also "had a bond like no two other people have". You'd think "a bond like no other" wouldn't be so easily threatened by me going over to a normal family's house for dinner or dating a boy who told me "your mom is kind of mean, my parents never talk to me that way". Anyway, now that I'm not forced to pretend that I think our family is normal, that "bond like no other" kind of fizzled out.

She did it with others, too, like she thought relationships were a contest of who you had more "points" with or something. It's interesting being an adult with pretty much just chosen relationships in my life and seeing that people just do not operate that way. I genuinely have never encountered this mindset with a mentally healthy person, ever.

Ditto here.   Mine would tell me I wasn't myself when I didn't fit into the family drama triangle in the way she expected.   She has gone as far as saying "you're so unattractive when...." I hold ANY kind of boundary.   I'm grateful that we're VLC now.

My mom: "Boys won't like you if you do x, it's very unattractive..."

Also my mom: "You're changing yourself for a boy! Stop it! Go back to normal!" (9 times out of 10 this was actually "You're realizing something is off about our family because this boy's family doesn't act like we do! Stop it! Go back to normal!")



Is there like an instruction manual they all use?

I think there's a gaslighting/brainwashing component. They're sending the message that if you don't play the role they've written for you, there's something "wrong."

If I assert anything about myself that my mother doesn't approve of, she's quick to question it. "That's not true!" "Since when?!" "You LIKE that???"

I've said before that when we had a political disagreement, my mother wondered to my other family members if I had been brainwashed. The irony is that the only person who's ever attempted to brainwash me is her.

Yeah like... aren't people supposed to change as they get older? Why would that ever be wrong? It ties in a bit with how they always think they know what you like/dislike. "Cappy loves history and reading!" is one I always repeat because like... where have you been, mom? Of course I'm not gonna be "the real me" if you think "the real me" is a playable character in your game of Cappy's Perfect Mom.

"Brainwashing" was a favorite word. My church was "brainwashing" me. Every friend and boyfriend was "brainwashing" me. Those weird people on the internet were "brainwashing" me. She was "too smart to be brainwashed". And now that you say it... yeah, she's the only person I've ever met who tried to put weird ideas in my head. Huh.

[Leonor]

Hello dear Easterncappy,

Yes, it's brainwashing.

It's like they have an image of you, which is just a reflection of them, and if they don't recognize themselves in you, then there is something wrong with you. You've changed!

The most delightful part of mothering is beholding this precious little person start to become a "me." They have their likes and dislikes, and their giggles, and their fusses, and their favorite blanket or stuffed animal, and it's just the most adorable thing to watch them grow into their person-ness.

It's awesome and healing, and I'm so excited for you!!!!!

[PunkCroc]

I think there's a gaslighting/brainwashing component. They're sending the message that if you don't play the role they've written for you, there's something "wrong."

If I assert anything about myself that my mother doesn't approve of, she's quick to question it. "That's not true!" "Since when?!" "You LIKE that???"

I've said before that when we had a political disagreement, my mother wondered to my other family members if I had been brainwashed. The irony is that the only person who's ever attempted to brainwash me is her.

This, I feel this so much too. I've been so preoccupied with my mom and what she wanted and expected from my life for so long it seems like if she knew me, really knew me, she'd probably hate it. Growing up, if mom didn't like something, nobody was allowed to like it. This applied to everything from TV shows to people. She'd fight everyone on it, even my dad couldn't have things if she didn't like it. She tried to ban everyone including my dad from watching shows she didn't like, and alienate the parents of our friends if she didn't like them (this was usually because she was jealous for some reason...to this day I don't understand why she didn't like some people) When I was a teenager I got really into horror movies (including classics like Nightmare on Elm Street and even the original Wolfman) and she never missed a chance to drag on that. She hated boxing too, so me and my dad sometimes would watch it in secret.

These days, since learning the truth about my mom, I've been trying hard to just let myself be myself without thinking about what she wants. It's strangely freeing, but also scary, because the fear of the backlash is still there.

[easterncappy]

Hello dear Easterncappy,

Yes, it's brainwashing.

It's like they have an image of you, which is just a reflection of them, and if they don't recognize themselves in you, then there is something wrong with you. You've changed!

The most delightful part of mothering is beholding this precious little person start to become a "me." They have their likes and dislikes, and their giggles, and their fusses, and their favorite blanket or stuffed animal, and it's just the most adorable thing to watch them grow into their person-ness.

It's awesome and healing, and I'm so excited for you!!!!!

Thank you. This is something I overthink a lot... I hope my daughter never, ever feels pressured to adopt my thoughts and opinions on things. Even in my mid-20's I sometimes have uncomfortable thoughts and go "huh... wonder why that is... oh, it's because my mom put that thought there" and I realized something I've been saying for years isn't really how I feel.

This, I feel this so much too. I've been so preoccupied with my mom and what she wanted and expected from my life for so long it seems like if she knew me, really knew me, she'd probably hate it. Growing up, if mom didn't like something, nobody was allowed to like it. This applied to everything from TV shows to people. She'd fight everyone on it, even my dad couldn't have things if she didn't like it. She tried to ban everyone including my dad from watching shows she didn't like, and alienate the parents of our friends if she didn't like them (this was usually because she was jealous for some reason...to this day I don't understand why she didn't like some people) When I was a teenager I got really into horror movies (including classics like Nightmare on Elm Street and even the original Wolfman) and she never missed a chance to drag on that. She hated boxing too, so me and my dad sometimes would watch it in secret.

These days, since learning the truth about my mom, I've been trying hard to just let myself be myself without thinking about what she wants. It's strangely freeing, but also scary, because the fear of the backlash is still there.

This is very relatable, except for the fact that my dad had my mom on a leash... it seemed often like he was the only person allowed to defy her or have different opinions than her. There are weird psychological and cultural reasons for this, but moving on...

My mom had a very strange sense of hostility towards anyone from a genuinely normal family. In her case, I think she felt threatened by the idea that I could learn that our family is abnormal from these people, you know, the "brainwashing against her", and the fact that these people were immune to her PD tactics or would think she's weird and poorly behaved was a huge blow to her ego... and she was jealous over the fact that despite her best efforts to pretend otherwise, some women's husbands are nice people who genuinely love them and some families are happy and healthy and don't have our "totally normal" "quirks". Deep down inside, she knew. The few friends and boyfriends that I was "allowed" to have were all PD themselves or from obviously PD families... it didn't make her any nicer to/about them, but she tolerated their presence and everyone was able to integrate into each other's disordered systems a lot easier.

Could that be what your mom was doing? Always remember that PD people have some type of magical radar for picking up other PD people, or people who are vulnerable to their tactics (the enabler type). Generational abuse couldn't go on if they didn't know how to pick people. They know that a healthy, confident person can spot them from a mile away and won't let them get away with a thing... so they dislike them.

[Boat Babe]

Agree with everything said above.  My mother was "devastated" when I did/said anything as a child/teen that differed from her take on things. As a full metal waif (nods to Woman Interrupted) she would cry and pile on the guilt. "How could you?".  As I grew older I just stopped sharing anything about myself which I knew would trigger this sort of fuckery. As I have mentioned before, it makes for excruciating and limited small talk. Her loss.

[Liketheducks]

I think there's a gaslighting/brainwashing component. They're sending the message that if you don't play the role they've written for you, there's something "wrong."

If I assert anything about myself that my mother doesn't approve of, she's quick to question it. "That's not true!" "Since when?!" "You LIKE that???"

I've said before that when we had a political disagreement, my mother wondered to my other family members if I had been brainwashed. The irony is that the only person who's ever attempted to brainwash me is her.

Your post reminded me of something.   My mom had this one habit of pinning her likes and dislikes on me.   My favorite color had to be her favorite color.   It's so minor.   For example, she always kept lazy Susans in her kitchen for spices...in cupboards or on the table.   I really hated them.   They were always dirty.   Always flinging random condiments around.   So, when I grew up, I decided I'd never have them.      When she visited it was "but you love them".     It was if I wasn't really allowed to have an opinion of my own that deviated from hers.   I'm just now, in my 50's, figuring out what I like or dislike.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Yes to all this. The PD parents have decided for you who the "real you" is. Self-determination is met with  . It just does not compute. The child is an extension of the parent.

I have been given soooo many gifts that reflect my mother's tastes and not mine, to be met with, "But you love that!" as I was asking for a return receipt. Yeah, geese wearing bonnets really aren't my thing mom, where'd you even find that nowadays? Oh, the basement? But I can't possibly take it to Goodwill. Got it.

And even seemingly minor things like once when they visited they were horrified to find that I didn't keep their preferred brand of pancake mix in the house. Or any pancake mix. So they left me a "gift" of a giant box of it on my kitchen counter when they left. And their preferred furniture polish, and tea I don't drink, etc. I started called this behavior "marking their territory."

Blaming puberty or hormones for your self-expression is a whole bundle of stuff. Yes, you are growing up, and that is a GOOD thing, but they don't like it. So you are being shamed back into the child role. Growing up is actually difficult for the one growing, and usually the child can expect support from the already grown persons in the family. But of course in a Pd family that's all inside out and backwards.

[sunshine702]

I have a thing for years that I don't share really good news. I quit drinking and have been sober for more than a year!  It is my accomplishment and I don't want her pissing on it.  It's for me.  I also don't tell her any of the challenges ahead.  We will move into my in-laws 5th wheel while our house is being built.  I don't want her picking on a dried scab.

Sometimes when I share something real (although not fantansy land pleasantl like a killing of a journalist here made national news - she can't be bothered with MY thing.

Yeah they don't get the real me.  Because her LaLa land is what matters. 

[easterncappy]

I have a thing for years that I don't share really good news. I quit drinking and have been sober for more than a year!  It is my accomplishment and I don't want her pissing on it.  It's for me.  I also don't tell her any of the challenges ahead.  We will move into my in-laws 5th wheel while our house is being built.  I don't want her picking on a dried scab.

Sometimes when I share something real (although not fantansy land pleasantl like a killing of a journalist here made national news - she can't be bothered with MY thing.

Yeah they don't get the real me.  Because her LaLa land is what matters.

I've been meaning to catch up on the replies to this thread. I might do so tonight. Very busy lately.

I'm learning to gray rock my parents, too. Although, not because they always don't care, but because sometimes it triggers a horrible torrent of criticism, condescending "advice", etc. or it will be used as ammo against me and my husband later. Normal people can call their parents for emotional support when there are challenges, but we have to keep our mouths shut because they'll always find a way to make everything worse if we tell them. I grew up with a lot of enmeshment and no boundaries so I was very used to telling my mom everything all of the time... it's so much more peaceful when she knows very little. My parents always dismissed my accomplishments, too. I'd do something I felt really awesome about like make the dean's list in college, and she'd go "that's it? I mean, I knew you could do that...", with this tone that implied that I might as well have told her about what I had for breakfast. She tried to frame it as a compliment, but it was really a neg. It made me feel like crying every time.

[Andeza]

Oh heck... There was a Dean's list, which meant you were a B or better average. There was a President's list, which was the straight A students. I had always been a straight A student in high school but only made Dean's list in college. I heard, I swear, verbatim what yours told you. I brushed it off and decided I didn't care about her opinion because she was being unreasonable. That was pretty much my go-to response. Any time M became completely unreasonable I decided not to care about her opinion because it wasn't worth the proverbial pat on the head to do better.

[treesgrowslowly]

Blaming puberty or hormones for your self-expression is a whole bundle of stuff. Yes, you are growing up, and that is a GOOD thing, but they don't like it. So you are being shamed back into the child role. Growing up is actually difficult for the one growing, and usually the child can expect support from the already grown persons in the family. But of course in a Pd family that's all inside out and backwards.

Totally agree. The PD parent has not really grown up themselves. They have not really individuated. They are emotionally stunted, and in my opinion, can have pretty weak theory of mind.

My narc parents also told what my favourite colour was, etc. etc..

Learning that this stuff is wired into them (how their brain is 'working') helped me to understand why I didn't develop NPD (which is a fear for a lot of us at some point in our lives).

I had theory of mind, which develops in normally developing children quite early in life. Most children develop theory of mind starting around age 2 or so.

Theory of mind is considered by a lot of researchers to be integral to healthy social interactions. Narc parents do not know how to let their children grow up. It is a painful experience to grow up around a narc parent.

Trees

[Sojourner17]

My mom does not really know the real me either and a lot of the times she does not like the areas where I am different than what she thinks I am.  The thing is,  over all I'm a pretty well rounded person.  Obviously not perfect but I don't have any strong vices if that makes sense.  Yet, it's almost as if anything where I differ from her or what she thinks I should be comes as a shock.  Especially now as I'm learning to disentangle myself from enmeshment.

She would have no clue what to say if she were asked what my favorites were. Favorite color?  No clue. Favorite food?  She wouldn't know.  Favorite season or past time?  No idea.  Favorite book? Song? Thing to wear?    that doesn't mean that she wouldn't have an answer to those questions though.

Yes,  she doesn't know how to handle my growing up and not being the same as her.  I'm working hard to break old cycles, habits and toxic family culture.  To her, my choices are a mistake and do not compute.

Yes,  I would say in some ways she has arrested development and will attempt to mirror me in order to try to create closeness.  If I don't catch on to it in time though I get the rug pulled out from under me.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Ahhhh the favorite color thing!!! When I was a toddler it was decreed that my favorite color was red. My great-grandmother knitted me a red blanket. So it had to be my favorite color. I received everything possible red in that color forevermore. I wasn't allowed to change my mind. I only like pink and purple because of peer pressure, and I only like blue because I didn't fit in with the other girls and feel like I have to rebel. (So which is it?)l Am I conforming or rebelling? Doesn't matter, I'm surely not making up my own mind.) And then I stuck to blue because I'm just being difficult. I haven't like blue for years, my favorite color has ALWAYS been red, what am I even talking about? 

If you look around my home and my wardrobe now, red is absolutely not a predominant color. I like red in small doses. It's just never really been my absolute favorite. You would think I'd hate it. 

I guess my point is that even that inconsequential bit of self-differentiation just does not run in the program of my parents' disordered minds. They just can't handle it. So when I changed my major and then dropped their life plan for me entirely, it makes perfect sense that the irredeemable discard cycle would kick in at that point. They couldn't exactly pretend I had graduated at the top of my class in THEIR chosen field and that all was going according to their Old Age Golden Parachute Plan. So they hit the next best thing for denial. It's All Cordelia's Fault and She Is Wrong.

PS I also got, "Well of course you got straight A's!" That was simply the script. What did I want, a cookie? Affirmation? Lol. Perfection was baseline. I've had a much harder time with needing to be perfect to avoid a beating, physical or verbal, than any other aspect of CPTSD.