N mom holding things over my head

[intothewest26]

I've posted a lot here today (sorry, there's a lot I feel I need to get out.)

I started a new job today. It is remote, so I will be able to move as soon as I save enough money to feel I can comfortably do so. Currently living on the property with PD family.

Tonight, N mom has been texting me. She seems to be scapegoating me in the sense that she is now very much acting like I am the one in the family with all the mental health problems.

I've been diagnosed with PTSD, am in therapy, looking for another therapist who specializes more in trauma. I had a brief psychotic episode three years ago, told not very likely to happen again as I have had no symptoms for that length of time. Tonight she has accused me of isolating myself, which I'm not, I actually go out and do things more often than she does. I have found two trauma therapists who do telehealth and she is trying to demand I do in person therapy instead of one of the therapists I have chosen myself.

When I pointed out to her I am seeking treatment (also my PTSD symptoms have improved since 4-5 months ago, and I am functioning well enough to have gotten a new job after several rounds of interviews)  and that other family members who have been physically aggressive recently are not being held accountable, or treated this way, she just said "I am focused on you."

It's honestly a bit creepy. It's like she's trying to paint me in a certain light. She may genuinely have some concern, but I'm increasingly leaning towards it not coming from that.

After the invalidation of an abuse memory I shared with her and these other things, I'm considering going low contact or no contact after I move.

Has anyone had a PD parent or relative use their mental health diagnosis against them like this? It's pretty disconcerting.

[nanotech]

Congratulations on your new job!
Yes, I do have experience if my mental health being used against me-in fact they'll use anything.
My parents called it 'selfish' when I sought therapy after massive fallout  in which I was set up and used as a flying monkey to do their bidding, then shamed/ discarded once I'd  achieved the desired effect in persuading GC bro to do what they wanted. This was over 11 years ago and my GCbro still holds a huge grudge - though he is clearly puzzled why I'm not bothered by it and I no longer seek a relationship with him.
I came Out of the FOG- whoop whoop!
I had therapy and found validation through that- whoop whoop!
Any self -care in my family is seen as underserved. It isn't our 'role' to have self- insight and to respond to our own needs.  It extends beyond therapy to anything really- hobbies, interests, causes, living further away from them.  I've been mocked for taking up swimming , yoga. Pretty ordinary hobbies by any standards.
They just don't want you getting any input from healthy relationships, whether professional or friendly. They also don't want you to start following a lifestyle that could threaten the dynamics they've got going in the family of origin.
They see it all as a kind of betrayal. If coursed they will lose control too. Abuse memory invalidation is one of their tools of control. Therapy offers a healthy, supportive and empathic response to our experiences of abuse. We deserve that!

Any  reference to looking after our mental health-  they take it as a criticism of them. They don't want us to talk about our emotions and feelings with mental health professionals.  They don't want experienced and empathic eyes, minds and hearts anywhere near us.
They themselves lack the empathy to feel anything for us in our suffering. Everything we say or do in relation to ourselves, is interpreted ONLY in relation to themselves.  They have no concept of walking in another's shoes, even those of their own children.
My dad, at 90 is so transparent now in this aspect. Lots of time to think/ reflect at his age, but no- he responds to everyone and everything with the same old **** which basically shouts ' ME ME ME'.
I'm so glad you're getting trauma therapy. I've  had it, it was brilliant and it was cathartic for me. I think most of my FOO would laugh if they knew. In my FOO, mocking is used widely used as a tool for  discard and therefore for preservation of the dysfunctional family system. Another tool for control is feigned concern. This is a clever one- difficult to  object to.
But it's actually quite oppressive and it's all about control.
I think your mum is trying to control you by choosing your therapist for you. Stick to your choices. Sometimes the things they profess to 'worry' about, in their conversations with us, are more a reflection, deep down, of their fear that we are changing/ differentiating away from them? I can't see how you're isolating yourself. It seems an odd thing to suggest, given your recent proactive lifestyle choices and your employment success.
I've stopped reacting to mg FOO. I've stopped looking for their approval, or for them to change at all. I've stopped trying to rationalise their views to try to make them more acceptable and more healthy- seeming. It's what it is.

I'm VVLC with them now. I see my dad as little as I can, my siblings almost never. It's  a little sad- i had to realise I couldn't change them or gain their approval, then grieve that loss, but it's completely freeing-  I'm so much healthier in my head! If even surprised me how much better I am. Lowering contact gives you time to stand back and look more clearly. It enables you to set up boundaries. If enables heart and mind to heal.
I'll likely  be non contact with the others once my dad passes
Good luck, and again, congratulations! Xx

[Call Me Cordelia]

Congratulations indeed!

IME, "You're isolated," translates to, "I don't have enough access to you." Being isolated from one's family is an actual red flag in many cases, so it has that oh-so-conveniently plausible sounding care and concern.

I don't have experience with my parents using a real diagnosis against me, but I did say I was taking a break from them for my mental health. So they invented a diagnosis and used it as part of the smear campaign to get me back in my role. It seems your mother is doing similar, using the facts to meet her own agenda to shake your confidence and try to regain control. I would not tell her anything about your job or therapy. Anything you say can and will be used against you. I'm glad you'll be moving out.

[intothewest26]

Thank you! The job is going really well so far.

Not sure why she wants me to see a therapist in person (she keeps sending me therapists when I have found some myself) when we live in a rural area, an hour from any major city, and it would be so much easier for me to do telehealth. It's like she's trying to covertly sabotage my job.

I agree that it's about control. I didn't realize when I was younger how controlling she is, and she accuses me of being manipulative when I have autistic traits (never been diagnosed) and wouldn't even really know how to manipulate. Thank you for sharing your experiences - you're right, therapy is essential.

"Anything you say can and will be used against you." Yep, that about sums it up. I'm going LC or VLC as soon as I can.

[easterncappy]

My mom: *threatens suicide on a regular basis, including asking me if I want to do it with her*

Also my mom: "Are you sure about (name)? I mean, he's attempted suicide before. How stable could he be?" (She later did a 180 on this person for no reason besides that they treated me poorly and she got off on that)

That's what you made me think of. I guarantee you that if she was diagnosed with something like PTSD it'd become permanent "woe is me" status for her.

My PTSD diagnosis was convenient for my mom when she believed it only came from a major event that made the news, which she could use to garner sympathy and attention for herself by telling others all about it. She scoffed at the idea that my childhood largely contributed to it - ridiculous, I had everything I needed as a child, my childhood wasn't that bad. Plus, by now it's been long enough that I should have gotten over my PTSD (translation: no one is talking about the event that made me actually get diagnosed anymore so it doesn't matter). Even when she was "sympathetic", she couldn't really wrap her mind around how it affected my ability to get good grades in college or perform my job duties correctly. The "sympathy" was only vaguely convincing when it was convenient for her, besides that it was obviously just some burdensome thing I need to get over already.

They just don't want you getting any input from healthy relationships, whether professional or friendly. They also don't want you to start following a lifestyle that could threaten the dynamics they've got going in the family of origin.
They see it all as a kind of betrayal. If coursed they will lose control too. Abuse memory invalidation is one of their tools of control. Therapy offers a healthy, supportive and empathic response to our experiences of abuse. We deserve that!

Any  reference to looking after our mental health-  they take it as a criticism of them. They don't want us to talk about our emotions and feelings with mental health professionals.  They don't want experienced and empathic eyes, minds and hearts anywhere near us.

Yep. When I was a child, my mom hardly ever let me be friends with other children. As a teenager and young adult, boyfriends were only acceptable if they were sleazebags (also PD or from PD families, perverts, pushy, abusive, etc.). Any friends or boyfriends I had who came from normal families were a threat - they might motivate me to start suspecting that something is wrong with our family, after all. So if a PD parent accuses you of "isolating yourself", they're really saying "you might be getting out of our grasp and we can't peek over your shoulder anymore, knock it off and go back to normal". They have no idea who you're talking to and what those people are telling you and it freaks them out.

Therapy is stupid for the same reason. Many PD's don't believe in therapy at all, or if they do, it's some bizarre form of it. My PD MIL goes to a total quack "psychiatrist", he basically tells her that all of her abusive behavior is just fine and that my husband is the real villain. When we suggested group therapy with a therapist or psychiatrist of our own choosing, she said "no - they'll try to put me on medicine because I talk to God". We didn't want to talk to her unqualified enabler weirdo "psychiatrist" so now she can say that we didn't agree to group counseling and thus don't want to work on our relationship with her ("we" being mostly my husband but she tries to rope me in too when it's convenient).

OP, maybe the reasoning is similar in your situation - it needs to be on their terms, possibly even with a "psychiatrist" they already know is a quack, or at least they want you to say "no" to their "totally reasonable suggestion" so it looks like you're not really working on the problem.

[intothewest26]

My mom did something similar with my childhood friends but in the sense that she had to be overly involved in all of my relationships. If she didn't like my friends for whatever reason, she made it clear. There were no boundaries there. She expected me to tell her everything about them.

Thanks for the insight. I'm sorry you've had to deal with that. I think I'm going to have to come to terms with how much she wants to control me, because if I look like the bad guy and she can make me out to other people as if I'm not seeking treatment, she doesn't have to address her own behavior. It's some pretty warped stuff.

[moglow]

I had a really amazing post all typed out and I lost it -


In a nutshell - learn to gray rock the hell out of negativity and intrusive questions. You don't have to tell anyone ANYTHING about your personal business, whether medical, emotional, financial or anything else. Parents they may be and dependent on whatever level you are at this time, they still don't have 24/7 100% access to your mind and personal business. I'd do whatever necessary to remove myself from her/their control over my medical and financial affairs, up to and including closing joint accounts when you're in a position to do so [so she cant in a fit of pique, cut you off or limit your access to funds]. Or, open new accounts in your name only and keep it to yourself. Post office box so they don't have access to your mail. Lock box for any personal files you may have etc.


Information diet, is how I've seen it described. If you don't tell them, it doesn't necessarily exist and they may think what they like. You still don't have to explain it.

[intothewest26]

Thank you. Thankfully, we have no joint bank accounts. However she is very invasive with ALL of my medical stuff. She is invasive of me emotionally 100% and I was parentified as a child. I honestly just want to get far away and hope I can do so soon.

[moglow]

She can try. Start closing down those avenues. While I can appreciate her concern, the sheer intrusiveness and demands seem over the top. She doesn't even need to know the names of your doctors, much less insist on meeting with them herself. Your therapy isn't about her.

[nanotech]

Yep keep details of your therapists to yourself.
When I started therapy, I was  halfway Out of the FOG, and still in contact with my UNPD sister. She asked me what the name of my therapist was -
I said ' oh just someone I found locally.' Then I batted away more questions using medium chill/ grey rock. Vagueness is everything!
I used to tell her all the details of my life. I always saw her as a safe person. But she used,  and often spun those details against me, time after time, working to further her own interests.
In this case, I knew she wanted to look up the therapist online and read about them, when/ where they trained, find out their office address, how much they charge, which aspects of mental health they are specifically trained in, possibly read some reviews, maybe see if she could spin any details on them to the rest of the family, or find some negatives, or find any other connection with them that she could somehow exploit and enjoy gossiping about. She would so love to have known what I was spending on my therapist. Moneys a big thing in our family. Paying for therapy is viewed  by my FOO as a waste of money.
So....she got nothing from me on it.
I actually no longer tell them anything.

[intothewest26]

After some thought, I have removed her from the list of people my therapist is allowed to talk to. I had her on there in case of an emergency but I honestly think it was doing more harm than good.

[intothewest26]

Mainly because every day I disagree with her she threatens to contact her .. all about control.

[intothewest26]

Time^ haha sorry

[nanotech]

After some thought, I have removed her from the list of people my therapist is allowed to talk to. I had her on there in case of an emergency but I honestly think it was doing more harm than good.

[moglow]

Exactly, and well done! Maybe even write them a letter requesting that under no circumstances are you or your care to be discussed with her, and to please add said letter to your file for future reference. Remove the threats whether real or imagined and you find stability.

[intothewest26]

That's a good idea! Right now I just have it in an email. M may try to retaliate over this but I'm not going to let someone control me like that, much less someone who has repeatedly invalided abuse.

[moglow]

Retaliate - how? She can get mad but she's gonna do that anyway, yes? It's just added to your file for when/if questions come up. If she asks, she's simply denied access. They don't advise her of your wishes, they just aren't authorized to release that information and actually can't discuss whether or not you're even a patient. It'll steam her beans but MEH!

[intothewest26]

Yeah I'm pretty sure I've been manipulated. She's basically threatened to take me to a psych ward if I don't comply with her many times. When I'm mentally well. But I don't think they can do that without an evaluation.

[moglow]

She can take you and you can sit and answer questions, discuss whatever they need. Theyd evaluate accordingly and realize she's out her tree. Or they may just tell her there's nothing to evaluate, that you're sane, acclimated to date and time, you're a rational reasonable person. I'm not so sure she can "take you to the psych ward" and sign you in or have you evaluated as such at all, not sure that's at all how that works. In today's world seems to me they'd need probable cause, not some over involved over reactive maternal unit losing her ever loving mind because an adult told her No.

[easterncappy]

She can take you and you can sit and answer questions, discuss whatever they need. Theyd evaluate accordingly and realize she's out her tree. Or they may just tell her there's nothing to evaluate, that you're sane, acclimated to date and time, you're a rational reasonable person. I'm not so sure she can "take you to the psych ward" and sign you in or have you evaluated as such at all, not sure that's at all how that works. In today's world seems to me they'd need probable cause, not some over involved over reactive maternal unit losing her ever loving mind because an adult told her No.

Beautifully worded. Yes, OP needs to take mom off of everything. She can't be an emergency contact, that's for sure. I was 8 months pregnant when I realized the hospital still had my mom as an emergency contact - can you freaking imagine her showing up to a medical emergency? Make sure she's not listed as that anywhere... work, college, hospitals that have you in their system, so on. Pick literally anyone else.

Buuut... this is just the grown up version of PD parents cutting off a child's therapy/counseling/etc. appointments when they realize the child is talking about something they shouldn't, and the therapist isn't automatically taking the parents side and tattling on the child. It'd be entertaining to see her try. The reason she wants a local therapist with in person appointments is so she could at least know who the therapist is and have a better chance of either getting information from them or sabotage the therapy appointments by trying to put information in their head. PD parents often think that their Special Parent Status trumps any and all laws and oaths about patient privacy.

I'm not trying to say that I can read her mind but this is exactly what my mom tried to do with the priest I started speaking to in my late teens about my family's problems. Lost her absolute mind when she realized that I finally had a trusted person to tell my family problems to and there was nothing she could do to make this person take her side just because she's Supermom, as she was used to. Before she realized this, she liked to threaten to take me there and make me tattle on myself to the priest for what she perceived were transgressions... even if she had succeeded in that, he would have just felt even worse for me, because it would have made her look like the crazy person she is.