Gaslighting confusion..

[feelinglostagain]

So - one tactic my BPDso has started using in the last year or so is accusing me of gaslighting her. She was gaslighted in many of her past relationships. She was also consistently gaslighted by her parents while she was growing up, and even now when she reflects on things that her parents did to her. She only recently (in the past two years) learned about gaslighting, so she's seeing it often when she reflects on ways people have sold her a different story when she was trying to stand up for herself.

Also - I have caught her attempting to gaslight me. Sometimes deliberately and to avoid taking responsibility. Other times she dissociates and rages and can't remember what happened. This is true of even non-inflamatory things that she says/does when she dissociates, so I don't think she's BSing me.. She definitely blocks things out, similar to how her uNPD mom and uBPD dad have done. Like when she tries to address a past transgression they did that really affected her, and they say 'that's not how it happened', they get angry and then shut her down.

Currently though - she uses 'gaslighting' as a catch-all accusation when she disagrees with something that I believe, or when she has experienced my words (other-than-intended and) through a BPD filter.

To be honest though - I have caught myself trying to gaslight her, while trying to deny responsibility for something that I had done that I was truly embarrassed about.. I also admitted it and apologized, when I recognized what I did, and validated that she was right and I had gaslighted her.

But 90% of the time, when she says it - it's actually because she doesn't want to have a 50/50 discussion about an issue, she wants me to apologize for whatever, and I'm not convinced that I did anything 'wrong', or I counter argue that she regularly does to me whatever the thing is that she is now accusing me of (which I also recognize isn't a helpful position to take).

Currently - it seems like almost every time we get into an argument, she throws 'don't gaslight me' on the fire, and it triggers a deep  emotional response from me about being a 'bad person'.. and often I shut down.

This past weekend, she did that..  I spent the entire next day reading up and trying to understand what I had actually done. I found an article on this site about 'Thought Policing'. Essentially she was saying disparaging things about herself. I don't agree with her assessment and I emphatically told her that she was wrong. She cited other people's reactions to her that supported her assessment, and claimed that I was gaslighting her by trying to make her believe that she was wrong when the reality was clear to everybody. Ultimately, I shared with her about thought policing, and I apologized for that.I legitimately was trying to stop saying and believing disparaging things about herself. I realized that it's not my place. I just need to disengage when she starts on about that topic.

Anyway - Gaslighting is so tricky because it suggests that there is a single irrefutable truth, and that one person is deliberately trying to distort the truth. The challenge is that sometimes the BPD filter she has distorts my intentions.. So her truth is sometimes very different from my experience of the situation.

Has anyone else run into this kind of thing?  ..Any insights that could help me?

I am very confused and this is incredibly frustrating to come up against.

Thanks

[bloomie]

Wow - feelinglostagain - your post observations are so interesting. It is so easy to fall into non productive communication patterns. How important that you are searching your own choices and adjusting areas you see are not yours to manage and then taking the loving step of acknowledging them to your  wife.

Gaslighting is so tricky because it suggests that there is a single irrefutable truth, and that one person is deliberately trying to distort the truth. The challenge is that sometimes the BPD filter she has distorts my intentions.. So her truth is sometimes very different from my experience of the situation.

Yes, gaslighting is tricky and there certainly is a lot of confusion surrounding the behavior. It challenges us to be as trustworthy and impeccable with our words and actions as possible so that when confusion and misunderstanding arises between us and our dear partner we have a firm foundation to work from.

I will say this about 'intentions' from my own experiences - I have been accused, judged, and sentenced by someone in my life that centers her entire view of herself and others through 'intentions' that only she can discern and accurately interpret. This person invalidates the actual facts of what I have actually said or done and validates her own righteousness and innocence through 'intentions' refusing to address the actual facts of what she has said or done.

The thing about intentions is they are invisible. Only known to us as individuals and even then can get pretty confusing. Just as no one else can know or police our thoughts, imv they cannot know or police our intentions except by our choices and words over time which reflect both our thoughts and our intentions toward others. All that to say... from where I sit I don't think telling you what your intentions are is playing fair just like telling someone what their thoughts are or should be is playing fair either.

Until the communication is cleaned up a bit and the two of you can find agreement around thought policing and intention policing I think that gaslighting might be the catch all bucket to dump discord and conflict into.

I listened to a Youtube vid that I found incredibly helpful around emotional dysregulation and how to navigate that in ourselves and others. I want to share it in case there are some things in it that would help both you and your wife - if she is willing to give it a listen - recognize and move through times when emotions are rumbling like a thunder cloud through your interactions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lZ2xTpNiqE

I look forward to others weighing in and to hearing more from you as we work together to get clear on some of these communication road blocks and unproductive behaviors.   

[square]

The original example for gaslighting is someone deliberately doing something (making the gas lights flicker, hiding car keys, etc) and telling the victim the lights did not flicker, that they clearly did not leave the keys where they remembered, etc. it is a deliberate, predatory method of driving someone crazy.

Now our culture has expanded the definition to include lies told by the perpetrator to protect themselves ("that never happened") which also can have the effect of making a victim doubt their memory and/or sanity.

It would not, imho, involve ordinary disagreements such as two people having a different take on a topic neither can know for sure on (such as what other people think about a person).

And the biggest thing is that gaslighting does not include supportive or encouraging statements in good faith, such as reassuring someone that you are sure nobody hates them. The point of gaslighting is power, control, domination.

That said, I agree that in this case there appears to be no benefit to either of you for you to reassure her of something when she believes otherwise.

Of course, if she's determined, she may next weaponize that against you and accuse you of agreeing with these nefarious thoughts because you didn't disagree with them. There's nothing you can do to stop someone determined to fight you.

[feelinglostagain]

Thank you both for your insights on this. I don't want to leave you both hanging in your responses.

I will say that this is the first time (in many years) that I've opened up about any specific problem areas between me and my SO. So - I think the energy release/stress of doing so hit me harder than I was expecting. .. I'm having a hard time buckling down to respond fully.

bloomie -
I will take a look at that video. It sounds applicable and I hope it helps me. Up until recently I thought 'emotional dysregulation' was a BPD problem.. But as I'm exploring my own trauma in therapy - I'm realizing that it's a problem of being activated and not having the wherewithal to calm oneself down.

Also that's a great point about intentions being invisible. I may have the best intentions for my actions - but it doesn't mean that others experience them as I intend. Sometimes I forget that. And you're right - communication is key. On a scale of 1-10, the two of us generally communicate at around a 3 or 4 during conflict. Sometimes (once every couple months) we actually can have a level 6 or 7 connected and understanding chat about our feelings/experiences in the relationship. Often that happens after a level 1 or 2 breakdown.

square -
thank you for your insights as well. It's helpful to remember the origin of the term: that it's not about disagreeing on perspectives about an agreed upon experience. It's about someone deliberately trying to make someone else feel crazy. No matter what the situation is - two different people can have wildly different experiences of the same facts. The goal shouldn't be to force the other person to believe what you believe - but to be able to communicate how your different experiences affect the relationship.

..I think I often forget this when I get caught up in accusations about gaslighting.. I get caught up my own fear that she thinks I'm emotionally abusing her.. then I often react to that - or worse double down on why my experience is right and hers is wrong.  I sometimes forget that a hallmark of BPD is constantly feeling invalidated.. I can still seek to understand and validate her experiences, and still communicating about and validating my own experience.

Even if she is weaponizing the term 'gaslighting' - I don't have to let that tear me down.

[Gwendolyn]

Hello feeling lost again.

I can identify with your confusion.  Also, I have not opened up about uPDh behaviors and the difficult episodes I/ we endure with no resolution until recently joining this forum.  Somehow we muddle onwards and ignore our patterns and try to 'make the best' of things...until the next flare-up.

It all feels overwhelming and enveloping and endless. For me, keeping some word puzzles and unfinished tasks around the house gives me an excuse to get up and leave a 'baiting conversation'.
Only you can gauge your safety in this situation so take the following as it is intended: I hope for you find and a way forward that gives you some mental space to make clear plans and decisions.  Look at the Toolbox for the explanation of medium chill (MC) and Grey Rock (GR).    In my case I can see the 'ramp up to argument starting' and I just get up and walk away.  Sometimes he gets pretty mad ' you always...' 'you never...' etc etc and I Sometimes say "I have heard these complaints  before and these conversations always ends up with you feeling worse.  I am going to feed the cat, put out the recycling, empty the dishwasher " etc..

He knows I'm avoiding the rants but listening to them wasn't good for my soul. Him being mad isn't anything new...but the episodes are having a cumulative impact and I am making space and time for me to recognize the impact and not accept the premises of the rants. 

My take away for me is: it doesn't matter too much what the rant is about, it matters more to consider what the impact of endless and circular complaints against me is having on me.  Also WHAT IF ANYTHING can I do to change how much emotional impact these almost predictable outbursts on me. 

Will be thinking of you on this road to more awareness about personality disorders and our own decisions  surounding our own self discovery.  It's good you are examining your reactions with a therapist and just know you are not alone.