It's their world, we're just living in it, I guess...

[Cat of the Canals]

Thanks again for your words of support. I know I will be trying to remember them this week -- the ILs should arrive any minute.

Gods, give me strength. 

[Cat of the Canals]

She gave our elderly dog food off her plate. Again. "Oh, I dropped a little piece of chicken, so he got a little treat." It's not a treat. It's poison.

We've discussed this 10,000 times with her, most recently two days ago. Explained that any change in his diet -- even him stealing the tiniest morsel of cat food -- has the potential to make him violently ill. And he's 13 years old, so every illness is scary at this point.

She simply doesn't care. Just outright refuses to respect this boundary.

SIL was saying, "That's not good, mom!"
MIL: Oh, it was just a tiny piece. He'll be fine.
Me: Well, it doesn't take much. He only weighs 12 lbs.

No apology. Nothing. I've locked myself in my sewing room because I'm so angry I can't be in the same room with her.

Why do I allow this person in my home?

[bee well]

Hi Cat of the Canals,

Oh my...You are in the "middle of it" now. I hope things are going as well as can be today, especially in the light of this:

"She gave our elderly dog food off her plate. Again. "Oh, I dropped a little piece of chicken, so he got a little treat." It's not a treat. It's poison."

It's not just a little piece of chicken, it's an outright boundary violation, and disregard for the health of your dog. That being said, it might also be a reflection of her opinion of animals in general. (My MIL gives sharp bones to her family pets. We tried to tell her with vet's support that is not good but she just laughs and says, oh they are just beasts...) But I don't think it really matters, the fact is she keeps crossing the line. What does all of that say about her?

That is a classic example of how, "they" can try to exercise power in the smallest of ways. Then later it might be said it was "just us. oh what it was a tiny piece of chicken, a treat" BUT you have already told her about this. And she conveniently "forgot." I'm sorry she is behaving this way. It's so frustrating to deal with, not to mention in your own home.

You wrote: "No apology. Nothing. I've locked myself in my sewing room because I'm so angry I can't be in the same room with her."

You showed a lot of maturity and containment by going into the other room , and not engaging. That must have been really hard. (Deep breaths. Continuing to remove yourself physically will give you the time to collect yourself, even if it's only for a few minutes.)

It's also hard to comprehend that someone would not offer an apology for an accidental (?) slip. . She likely doesn't think she did anything wrong. And if she does, I don't think she cares. From all you have described about her, she does not think like "we" do.

You ask, "Why do I allow this person in my home?"

I'm not sure exactly but I think it's because you love your dh, want to have peaceful family relations, and somewhere have hope that things will be different "the next time." (If I remember correctly a good deal of time has passed since the last visit). That you can handle it.

The "why" is something you might want to explore more after the visit is done. It will pass and you will have time to reflect on how want to take it from there. In the meantime, keep up the good work!

Hugs to you as you continue to navigate this visit. Please continue to share and let us know how things are going. We are here for you!

[treesgrowslowly]

Cat of the Canals,

I am so sorry you are dealing with this.

This is why I went NC. In the end, I saw too many times where the PD's actually caused harm, or did things that can cause someone else (human or pet) illness or injury. Oh the stories I have. Leaving children unattended, etc etc etc...

Sounds like you are dealing with someone with the mind of a child. A person in a self-absorbed, me me me state. They can't even process the basic concept that if the dog gets sick, it will be their fault. No concern about making the dog sick, no concern about stressing you out. This is a miserable situation.

Can you take yourself and the dog to a hotel for the rest of the visit?

Trees

[mustard_seed]

I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this Cat! How childish and selfish and disrespectful can one MIL be? Yours is certainly testing the limits.

You're strong for stepping away and not letting yourself react, though none of us would blame you if you came back and said that you DID react, eventually. Especially if she escalated her behavior as the week went on.

I hope things between you and your husband are good--that you're communicating and at least somewhat on the same page. I hope your dog is OK. I hope you are able to take some time for yourself to recover and regain a sense of normalcy after they leave. 

[Cat of the Canals]

Phew.

They left yesterday, but we said goodbye the night before and got an extra day of freedom. MIL (shockingly) did not push the "breakfast plan" she'd mentioned before. I suspect FIL put the kaibosh on it, as he told me that they had to be out of their Airbnb by 10 am and he wanted to return the rental car before that, which had me wondering when MIL thought we'd have time for breakfast in the first place. (I think she has pretty severe undiagnosed ADHD and definitely struggles with planning events that have strict time limits.)

I was so livid about her feeding the dog that I originally planned to not go on any of the other outings we had planned. I was also going to confront her about it and make it clear that if any other boundaries were crossed she would no longer be welcome in my home.

My H expressed concern that this would paint a bigger target on the dog -- he believes she specifically fed the dog out of spite because he's the reason we can't stay out for as long as MIL would want (as if 4-5 hours of activity isn't enough, ffs). So she was either trying to punish the dog or us through him, or some combination. I still feel sick when I think about this. I knew she was horrible, but this is a new low.

H was also concerned that even a mild confrontation might turn into something bigger, and MIL is not above pulling some sort of medical hoover while she's here. She was almost laying the groundwork by talking constantly about her "new heart pill." Had to announce every evening, "It's time to take my pill!"

After some discussion, we agreed to play it strategically. We would finish out the visit with hard gray rock so that any confrontation that may occur will be with 1500 miles between us. We also agreed that MIL is on "probation" and that we will refuse visits for the next 2 years, and after that, the discussion is not when she'll visit again but if.

We also obviously kept the dog away from her at meal times -- I ended up taking him on a walk while they ate. This was a fun illustration of "play stupid games, win stupid prizes" because MIL and FIL are sort of obsessed with everyone sitting at the table together to eat in a rather formal manner, and my absence meant they couldn't really play "Happy Family" like they wanted.

One other interesting thing that happened was that we visited a historic church which is a tourist attraction last year during their visit. MIL thinks of herself a devout Christian. H and I are not religious. Furthermore, my family is Jewish. MIL bought prayer cards at the church gift shop and gave me one, which I found a bit disrespectful and decided that if it was repeated this year, I would simply say, "No, thank you!"

I had already discussed this with H, so he warned me in advance that they had indeed gone back to the church with SIL, and MIL had prayer cards she intended to give us. FIL must have overheard this warning and told MIL, because when the time came to give out the cards, she quietly (also out of character) gave them both to H.

I'm shocked not only that FIL picked up on the nuance of H's warning but also that MIL was embarassed/cowed into not forcing it on me, since she seems to go out of her way to do so. (She did give me a nativity christmas ornament earlier in the week, which I would have refused had I known what it was beforehand.)

Anyway, thank you all for your kind words this week. I was too frazzled to respond but did read your posts and took comfort in them.

[bee well]

Hi Cat of the Canals,

Welcome back. I am glad to see you made it through the visit.

I hope you'll have some you have some much deserved you time scheduled to relax after that ordeal.

I'm very very sorry about the situation with your dog. That is beyond wrong. I don't know your MILs exact motives or thinking but somehow I am not surprised about her utter lack of conccern for the dog and her ignorance of boundaries. My MIL has animals but she doesn't like them. She doesn't like to see people giving them love and has no problems punishing them harshly. It's hard to fathom that some people are like that.

You wrote:
"After some discussion, we agreed to play it strategically. We would finish out the visit with hard gray rock so that any confrontation that may occur will be with 1500 miles between us. We also agreed that MIL is on "probation" and that we will refuse visits for the next 2 years, and after that, the discussion is not when she'll visit again but if."

Kudos to you and DH on how you handled it. Bravo! That must have took nerves of steel. I like the idea of the "probation" boundary.

Also not surprised about the medical hoover-y behaviour.  I'm familiar with that laying the ground bit. I'm sorry about your MILs health conditions, but the old "It's time to take my pill."Oh please!

Sounds like FIL did a little damage control about the disrespect in religious differences (this time a surprise, welcome for you).

Again welcome back and well-done.

[NarcKiddo]

I echo what bee well said above.

I have never forgotten the time MIL dropped needles all over the carpet and neither picked them up nor told anyone. Fortunately I saw one glinting in the light near where she had been sitting to do her sewing and was able to pick up the several I could see and then vacuum to make sure they were all gone before the older dog or the puppy got hurt or ate one. She claimed she didn't realise she'd done it, but I don't believe that. I think your H was very wise to avoid making the dog into more of a target. One would like to think your MIL was just being stupid rather than malevolent but no point in taking chances.

I hope you're able to take some time to rest and decompress.

[Cat of the Canals]

Kudos to you and DH on how you handled it. Bravo! That must have took nerves of steel. I like the idea of the "probation" boundary.

Unfortunately, I think our nerves were already shot, and we're paying for it now. We're both sick.  Not covid, thankfully, but blegh.

One would like to think your MIL was just being stupid rather than malevolent but no point in taking chances.

When discussing with H, I said, "No one else 'accidentally' drops food for the dog." He pointed out she never even said it was an accident. It's like she wants us to know she did it intentionally. But you're right, it might just be her absolute refusal to listen to what we say and take our boundaries seriously.

We've come to the conclusion that any information that runs counter to a PD's agenda -- no matter how many times you repeat it -- might as well not be said. They seem incapable of taking it in. They will rewrite it as necessary so it fits their "want." She WANTS to feed the dog, therefore she'll tell herself, "It's just chicken." And that somehow makes it OK in her mind.

[Leonor]

Dear Cat,

I'm so sorry, what an exhausting and terrifying visit.

I hope that you and dh are propped up in comfy bed with hot tea and tissues and binge watching series with your fluffy loved ones.

Next time, serve your mil a plate full your dog's food.

[treesgrowslowly]

 

Leonor's suggestion re the food. poetic lol.

Cat of Canals,

Glad you made it through the visit and that you and your DH have decided on a 2 year break (or more) from future visits.

It is just too stressful for words! Some PDs have the mind of a child, and so they will go feed the dog because they want to feed the dog. You (as the adult) have to try not to look 'insane' by explaining this most obvious, basic rule,  to someone who is chronologically older than you, but mentally, is not there with you at all. I agree with you, they can't take in anything except their own agenda. Nothing else makes any sense to them at all. We may as well be speaking Greek.

Thankfully it sounds like no lasting damage was done to your nor your family pet. The emotional bruising will heal, and you'll feel better knowing there's not going to be another visit for a long while - if ever.

How many chances can we give people who behave so so so poorly in our own homes? Good for you for setting up for 2 visit-free years (or more).

I don't think we can attain lasting emotional freedom in our own lives, unless we do find ways to get away from their toxic dramas.

Trees

[NarcKiddo]

We've come to the conclusion that any information that runs counter to a PD's agenda -- no matter how many times you repeat it -- might as well not be said. They seem incapable of taking it in. They will rewrite it as necessary so it fits their "want." She WANTS to feed the dog, therefore she'll tell herself, "It's just chicken." And that somehow makes it OK in her mind.

You are right! I haven't thought of it in those terms before but you are quite correct. I joined this forum due to my uNPD mother (MIL is just an added bonus!) and have often had the feeling I am banging my head against a brick wall when I say things to her. We have had some conversations repeatedly over the years when she will say "black is white" and I will say "no, white is white". She repeats herself, I repeat myself in further detail so she can understand. She changes the subject. Rinse, repeat.

Sorry to hear you are both ill. Hope you feel better soon.

[Cat of the Canals]

Oh yes, I meant to mention that doggo is OK, thankfully. One of the reasons we don't feed him ANYTHING other than his normal food and treats is because we have no idea what will make him sick anymore. He was fine with cucumber for years, but the last time I gave him a tiny piece, he was sick for a whole day. Yet MIL still spills rice all over the floor and asks, "Would rice be bad for the dog?" WE DON'T KNOW, AND WE DON'T WANT TO FIND OUT.

Next time, serve your mil a plate full your dog's food.

Don't tempt me with ideas like this! 

[lkdrymom]

I'm going to use that "play stupid games, win stupid prizes".  Very well played taking the dog for a walk during dinner.

[Cat of the Canals]

MIL texted today, and H mentioned that we're both sick. "Oh yeah, SIL had something like that while we were there, so FIL and I have been taking a zinc supplement every day."





Gee, wouldn't it have been nice if someone had mentioned this to us so that we also could have taken appropriate precautions?!

Instead, they seem to have gone out of their way to not mention it. MIL kept going on and on about the fact that SIL was having nosebleeds. At one point she mentioned they had to go out and buy more tissues because of it, which I thought was odd, since how much can your nose really bleed??? (And I say this as someone prone to nosebleeds myself.) Now it makes more sense.

This visit is just the gift that keeps on giving...

[moglow]

I'd have had a very difficult time not responding with "you could have mentioned that at the time, particularly since you were staying with us for x days ..." And I'd seriously reconsider ANY visits for future. They have no respect for you, your home, your pets, no one.

This whole situation makes my blood boil and I wasn't even there!

[square]

Taking the dog for a walk, removing yourself, and denying the Big Happy Family Dinner is EXPERT LEVEL PD MANAGEMENT. Please accept your black belt while we applaud. I would have shut the dog in a room during dinner but that just takes it to a whole new level.

Are you guys both prepared to say No for two years? Imagine you get a text or a call in April announcing that they'll be in town sometime in May. What will you say? Will H hold the line?

In general, I do agree with your H and others that stating your boundaries rather than just acting on them seems to trigger your MIL into a pissing contest where she wants to prove she'll win. Also it tells her clearly where your goat is. She can't get your goat if she doesn't know where it is.

Interesting that FIL seems to have some measure of control over her. Hard to say exactly what is driving that, but you may be able to use it to your advantage. Since FIL is Type A, telling HIM things won't work might work better - he may be disinclined to book a visit if he knows you're not hosting. MIL might not be telling him about uncertainties, betting she'll get her way and letting him real with the fallout while playing victim/ignorant if she fails. But if he knows he might move to avoid issues, not necessarily out of respect for your boundaries but tobavoid the hassle.

If you find yourself agreeing to a visit again in two years or whatever, my idea is to proactively retain control. Say MIL announces a visit "sometime in October." You respond "ok, let us know your plans asap because there are some things we 're considering doing." Then, if she plays games you can regain control by saying "soujds like you decided against the trip, just letting you know we're doing a conference and yadda yadda so you don't book it now that we're not available." And if she shrieks that she is coming on such and such dates you can be SHOCKED, I say, SHOCKED, that she didn't let you know. So you can either be UNAVAILABLE for portions of the visit, or she can rebook, after having arranged it with you first! I think FIL is key here, he will mot be happy with her messing that up.

Do you and H have a place you can spend the day if necessary, even just a wifi cafe? I would not be above lying about my schedule but I'd be sure to be gone from the house in case they stopped by.

All academic, of course - here's to your TWO YEAR BREAK.

[Cat of the Canals]

I'd have had a very difficult time not responding with "you could have mentioned that at the time, particularly since you were staying with us for x days ..." And I'd seriously reconsider ANY visits for future. They have no respect for you, your home, your pets, no one.

Thankfully they weren't staying with us. That was something we decided before we even moved: no guest room, no guests! Even so, we spent hours with them every day, and they came back to our house almost every evening for dinner. Even if I was only talking to someone briefly, I'd probably warn them, "Don't get too close, I have a cold." It's just basic courtesy!

Are you guys both prepared to say No for two years? Imagine you get a text or a call in April announcing that they'll be in town sometime in May. What will you say? Will H hold the line?

H said even before the dog incident that the next time she brought up visiting, he was probably going to call her out on the fact that she was so shady about how many days they were coming, that she basically lies to him and can't be trusted, and he doesn't want to see her for a while. So there's a good chance the next time it comes up, there will be a blow-up of some sort. He is quite a bit more confrontational with her than I am with my mother. And he's not very FOGgy, when it comes down to it... the only reason he ever capitulates is the misguided notion that giving in will shut her up for a while, which is never how it works, of course.

There is ZERO chance H would put up with another visit before next fall. I know that for sure. He picks his battles with MIL, but there is a hard limit to what he'll put up with, and more than one visit in a year is absolutely out of the realm of consideration. On top of that, I don't think it's financially feasible for his parents. (In reality, it probably is... but they'd rather go to Florida or somewhere else if they have the means for another vacation. I don't think they have much fun with us -- why would they when we're mostly GR and MC? But MIL is an obligation freak, so she definitely thinks we're "supposed" to see one another on a regular basis.)

That being said, MIL and FIL are creatures of habit, and I will be very surprised if they aren't already planning to visit next fall. I can't say for certain he won't waver, but before now, I've tried to come at this from a, "she's your mom, and I'll support you in whatever you decide" angle. That's changed now, especially with his promise. And I think if I remind him of the amount of time we ended up not working because of my family visit and then preparing for his parents and then their actual visit and now another week or more because we're sick, I don't think he'll be willing to sacrifice that so soon. He hates interrupting our work schedule almost as much as he hates spending time with his mother. 

I also told him if she ever tries this scheme again where they are here longer than we agreed to, I will not hesitate to seek out an online class or conference of some sort to simply have an excuse to be "busy." I almost made a dental cleaning appointment for myself this time!

I do appreciate the reality check, though. Because MIL will absolutely be expecting to come back before the 2 years is up, I'm sure of that.

And I did actually shut the dog in our bedroom at first, but he got pretty impatient with that since we'd already been gone all day. And I felt it grossly unfair that he be "punished" for MIL's actions. So I left the table and spent time with the dog instead and didn't even try shutting him away the next day. 

[square]

Again, great call on letting MIL take the consequence instead of the dog!

Also you know we are your people because nobody felt you were punishing yourself by missing dinner... and having some nice MIL-free time instead.

Our husbands are a bit similar in being not too FOGgy about their mothers. Mine doesn't relish telling his mother no but he will 100% do it. There was always hell to pay but he got to the point in the last five years he reflected every bit of the hell back on her and now she is afraid to set him off lol.

[mustard_seed]

I feel personally more empowered reading your story, Cat. I just feel like it's possible to stay centered and have a sane outlook on this crazy IL stuff. Your conversations with your husband, and making clear, rational decisions about how to handle next steps--I wish things could be that way with my own husband!

I totally agree with what others have said-- I think it's awesome you took your dog for a walk instead of locking him up in a room and playing Happy Family. Some people have pets and other people have furry family members. We have two cats and are in the latter category--their needs are important! And I wouldn't be down with their suffering just to keep the peace with MIL or anyone.

The religion stuff--UGH. My MIL weaponized religion from day one, saying, "I can't believe you brought a gum-chewing Catholic into my home," on the first day I met her. Never mind I had just said I was no longer practicing, but was raised Catholic, something I shared in good faith in what I thought was to be a normal getting-to-know-you conversation. And it's been an issue ever since. Last year she asked my husband, in front of me, but not directing the question at me: "Did she make you sign a document saying your kids would be raised Catholic?" (And this was the first time we saw them after our wedding). 

IDK what it's about with your MIL--for mine it seems to be another place where she can ostracize me and point to how I'm the "other" in "their" family. PDMil is a self-described "pagan" and would get upset if I even used the word Christmas around the holidays, because I was taking away from their very important family traditions.  It's so hard too because even though there's advice out there to not take the bait, to ignore this kind of behavior (the nativity gift e.g.) it's like--ok, so I'm to be a a doormat with no preferences or just takes the abuse? IDK. It's so hard.

I hope you're feeling better and recovering from being sick and from dealing with the crazy.