It's their world, we're just living in it, I guess...

[Cat of the Canals]

Also you know we are your people because nobody felt you were punishing yourself by missing dinner... and having some nice MIL-free time instead.

Exactly! I felt a little guilty that H had to suffer at the dinner table by himself but ultimately reminded myself: he's the one who chose to say yes to this visit.

It's so hard too because even though there's advice out there to not take the bait, to ignore this kind of behavior (the nativity gift e.g.) it's like--ok, so I'm to be a a doormat with no preferences or just takes the abuse? IDK. It's so hard.

It really is! I was raised to be a people-pleasing doormat by my own PDmom, and one of the things I've really been working at is setting boundaries out loud. I know it isn't always necessary to do so, that boundaries are for US, but I so rarely speak up for myself that taking the silent, MC, GR road (AGAIN) can sometimes feel like reverting to my doormat ways. I finally decided that the religious gift thing was an entirely reasonable thing to start saying a polite, "no thank you" to. I'm still annoyed that the fact that the nativity ornament caught me off-guard meant I faltered, but... baby steps. (Ironically, PDmom has a militant anti-Christian streak and probably would have coached me to light the nativity ornament on fire in front of my MIL.  )

I think my MIL sincerely believes she can "convert" me if she keeps sneaking in the little religious knick-knacks. The fact that most people would hesitate giving a religious themed gift to anyone they weren't very close to is trumped by the fact that she is "right." H has said more than once that he thinks if she knew the depths of his non-belief, she would disown him. I personally doubt she'd "give up" that easily, but I could be wrong.

[square]

I know Jesus really wants you to have that ornament.

[Call Me Cordelia]

A bit of a soapbox coming on. As a Catholic Christian myself, doing that sort of passive-aggressive "evangelization" no doubt undermines their supposed efforts.  When your religious faith becomes personal to THEM and about THEIR judgment of your rightness or wrongness as a person, the person they are actually worshipping is themselves, and not any true God at all. If they cannot bear anyone's disagreement on religion, how can their faith be that strong? Isn't their God big enough to handle less than universal popularity?

I get so cringy when I see that sort of passive-aggressive behavior from people, and then others say, "They are devout." Ick. No. Gross. We can disagree, even strongly, even frankly, and still care about each other. Which means base-level politeness. (If that's missing what makes you think they care???) And knowing when to let a subject lie.

I think it's normal that religious gift caught you off guard because that's NOT normal. You're fine. MIL is off. "No thank you," would be a perfectly classy way to handle that.

[Leonor]

Oh, Cat, how unrelentingly stressful your MIL is.

What is with the ornament? Does she really think you're going to wake up one day and decide to convert because, oh, what the heck, we've got all these tchotchkes lying around any way ...

[Cat of the Canals]

I get so cringy when I see that sort of passive-aggressive behavior from people, and then others say, "They are devout." Ick. No. Gross. We can disagree, even strongly, even frankly, and still care about each other. Which means base-level politeness. (If that's missing what makes you think they care???) And knowing when to let a subject lie.

I think it's normal that religious gift caught you off guard because that's NOT normal. You're fine. MIL is off. "No thank you," would be a perfectly classy way to handle that.

It's funny because I originally typed in my earlier post that MIL is devout, then I decided, no... she thinks she's devout. I've met plenty of devout people who belong to a variety of religions, and none of them have ever tried to cross this boundary. Actually, no one -- devout or not -- ever has. Just her. Which goes to show how much of a PD behavior it is.

I do appreciate the validation. My barometer is a bit off given my upbringing with PDmom. In elementary school, I stayed the night at a friend's house and was surprised to learn we'd be going to church in the morning. I was TERRIFIED my mother would find out. When they gave us each a Christian themed comic book to take home, I made sure to "forget" mine so there wouldn't be "evidence" for PDmom to find. There was also an incident where my brother bought us each a crucifix necklace as holiday gifts -- he was maybe 7 and had no idea what it meant. Mom pitched a fit when he asked why she never wore hers. So in my effort to NOT be like my mother, I tried to not make it a Thing. It was only when I asked myself, "Would I ever give a religious gift to someone?" that I realized how bizarre it really is. Because OBVIOUSLY NOT.

You'd think she'd at least be sly about it and just give them to H, figuring he'll put them out/covertly indoctrinate me or whatever. But he was actually standing in front of me and had to move out of the way so she could present ME with the nativity ornament, so it's very intentional.

Even more fun was that FIL made a remark about "those Jews" a little while later. Then added, "No offense, Cat!" 

[Call Me Cordelia]

Wow, your mom and mil are both really easily triggered in the religion department.

[Leonor]

 

[hellslilangel]

Wow Cat this entire thread is mind blowing and mind boggling how we all are separate people who are stuck around very similar self absorbed humans.

I wrote in my post how my MIL does very similar things with our dog even though she knows where her dog snacks exist and she is free to gift those. My MIL doesn't even like dogs so it's just more wild to me that she would give snacks out anyways then be loudly confused as to why o it dog then follows her around.

My uPD MIL is also very weird about Christians of any flavor and has these concerns they want to politically debate her and harass her publicly even though it has never happened once. My husband and I have talked about converting to Catholicism and then the next thing I knew she was a huge Catholic supporter and just knows so much information about the faith while I'm just sitting on my sofa internally thinking about how my mom's entire family is Roman Catholic and I too know they very basic information she is "gifting" us. She loves to share her well of knowledge with us plebeians. I just tuned her out then and anytime she goes off on her rants about Christians and how they are oppressing her.

Solidarity to the endless uphill battle we all walk together.