Maternal physical violence toward children - so far no #metoo movement for this

[JenniferSmith]

I've come to feel that the topic of maternal physical violence against young children is one of the hidden aspects of human behavior that still remains lurking in the darkness.   

Over the past few decades, the subject of sexual abuse and sexual assault have slowly emerged from the shadows and are now more openly discussed than ever.  As the topic has been brought out into the open, slowly it seems there is broader awareness and acknowledgement of how wrong and damaging this sort of behavior is. Of course, people who have suffered from this still have a difficult path to recover from it, and many families end up split up due to denial about the issue.

It seems the idea that mothers can be physically violent to their children is a much harder pill to swallow.  We seem to accept that a man could be violent toward his wife or children, but there is a bias against admitting that women are as capable (particularly with young children).  Some of this may be because on some level we (as a culture) think that occasional violence against children is acceptable - that a child can be so out of control that the only choice a parent has is to use physical force against them.

For me personally, my mother used physical violence until I grew to be close in physical size to her. At that point, I think she realized it wasn't a good idea anymore. She was mean, controlling and unloving while being violent, but once the violence stopped, all those things continued.

As the years have gone on, my feelings of how deeply wrong and damaging this was crystalize and solidify on deeper levels. Rather than having more understanding, I have less. I cannot conceive of hitting my own pets. Thinking about inflicting pain and fear in them makes me sick to my stomach.  I am unable to imagine how a parent is capable of this.

I imagine there are many PD parents who don't cross the line into actual physical violence.  Deep damage can be inflicted without it.   I wonder what the difference (if any) there is between those who do it and those who don't. I've wondered how common this is for people that come to a forum like this. Is it lurking in the background?

[Fluffy]

Yes.

Even if you agree with physical punishment of children (I don't) -

there is  still a HUGE difference between physical punishment (as in action by child results in predictable punishment) by the parent  -and the use of  physical 'punishment' in a random was (as in mother is feeling angry/stressed due to nothing related to the child , but the child is a convenient outlet for lashing out with physical punishment even though the child has not necessarily carried out an action which they could reasonably predict would have this effect)

I agree there is very little information about Maternal Abuse - and yes it feels like a taboo - one of the reasons why people don't really talk about their experience is the fear of not being believed.

The nearest description to what I experienced (with my Mother) is description of the 'cycle of abuse' - which is really aimed at a marriage/intimate relationship situation - why why why is this not researched/acknowledged as part of the Maternal Relationship?  Maddening.

[NarcKiddo]

My mother never physically lashed out when she was emotionally charged. She could never use the excuse that she had been driven to the end of her tether. She would lash out verbally and be very, very frightening.

She did inflict physical punishment, but it was always done coldly and with plenty of notice, so I knew it was coming. It was always justified as a reasonable punishment and if it involved anything that might cause permanent harm (in actuality or in her mind) she would make a great show of looking after me after the punishment. So I would know I deserved the punishment but also that she was a good and loving mother for still caring about my physical wellbeing. Example - she burned me deliberately to stop me going near the fire and then made a great show of cooling the burn with cold water. Charming.

[JenniferSmith]

yes it feels like a taboo - one of the reasons why people don't really talk about their experience is the fear of not being believed.

I agree with you about this being a reason it is taboo - not being believed.  That is a very powerful force against all types of abuse, whether of children or adults.

In terms of mothers being violent, perhaps on a subconscious/unconscious level (which the majority of people don't want to admit to themselves) is the belief that physical violence is sometimes warranted against children.   Or maybe its because we don't like to admit that a "mother" (which includes all those things we want to associate with it- love, nurture, safety, warmth) could be violent toward their own children. We have to deny it because it goes so deeply against the image/fantasy we have about how mothers should be.   I'm sure people who have experienced sexual abuse by their own mother probably feel even more marginalized and in the shadows that those with physical abuse.

[JenniferSmith]

She did inflict physical punishment, but it was always done coldly and with plenty of notice, so I knew it was coming. It was always justified as a reasonable punishment and if it involved anything that might cause permanent harm (in actuality or in her mind) she would make a great show of looking after me after the punishment. So I would know I deserved the punishment but also that she was a good and loving mother for still caring about my physical wellbeing. Example - she burned me deliberately to stop me going near the fire and then made a great show of cooling the burn with cold water. Charming.

I would consider being burned as physical abuse.  I'm sorry you had to go through that.

I'm actually surprised that only two people have replied to this thread.  Its very interesting.  I think I would have predicted more people on a forum like this had been physically abused.   Maybe those folks are on forums that are more dedicated to the topic of abuse, though.

[escapingman]

Very interesting thread and discussion.

I am coming from the other side currently divorcing a PD. STBX used to lash out at the kids (and me) when she was in a stressed state, it was never really predictable and it was never any plan about it - just uncontrollable anger and smacking all over with no aim. I have plenty of evidence in the shape of voice recording where you clearly can hear how she assaults them.

To the topic of this conversations, we now have a social worker involved and also a court case. STBX has made up false accusations against me that I can prove are false, and I have accused her of abuse which I can prove. The social worker despite having listened to the recordings believe that I am as much if not more to blame and is working towards repairing the relationship between STBX and DD that was severely abused towards the end. Her reasoning is that STBX now regret what she did so she is now ready to be nice to DD and have contact again. Meanwhile my other daughter, that has been brainwashed against me doesn't need to see me until she wants to. I can with 100% certainty say that if it was the other way round, that STBX had recorded me lashing out at the girls and been the abuser, I would already have a court order against me that  I would not be allowed to see either of my daughters.

[moglow]

I think there is a deep shame that prevents people from coming forward, that they/we're horrified that their own mother is "that" mother. As you say, somehow nobody seems to notice when a father is abusive, but a mother? Must be something we did to deserve it, that we were out of control and she snapped. Then there are the societal messages that you don't talk about your mother/father, don't ask don't tell kind of thing.

I mean, obv my brothers knew and had witnessed it, as well as being objects of her anger at times themselves. We just wanted to escape, leave all that behind. It's hard to talk about even now, actually had some of those conversations recently with nieces and nephews - they had no idea but said it made some things make sense to them finally. Just as rare are mentions from my brothers, but they're there.

Mine was deeply violent, verbally emotionally and physically, and it all took place behind closed doors and away from everyone. She thought it was all hidden though. I blocked a lot of the abuse out and tried to downplay it, but in talking with people who knew me/us growing up I realized more people knew [at the least] that something was very wrong there. We never talked about it with her or anyone else, and after an episode was over she shut it out like nothing ever happened, even to asking me what I was crying about or why I was avoiding her. Not one crumb of self awareness with her, still isn't. It IS damaging - yes, the bruises heal eventually but that underlying feeling of shame, of being demeaned, it sticks around.

As an adult even confronting her with it, she shrugged it off as if it were her due. In her mind she's the mother and that's that, absolved of all responsibility. It was all a control issue for her and it worked for way too long. I've said before the only difference in her from then to now is, now she can't hit me.

[TimetoHeal]

I absolutely could not agree with you more, Jennifer.  It's time to bring this out into the open.  I feel like mothers, in particular, are so enshrined in our society and most societies.  You don't question mothers or their love.  How many Facebook memes are there about a mother's unconditional love and sacrifice?  Cute pillows that say, "If Mama Ain't Happy, Ain't Nobody Happy", as if that were cute?  How much hoopla and pressure is there around Mother's Day? 

My mother was violent with me.  Like yours, it ended one day when I was big enough to fight back.  I remember her lunging at me while I was in my bed, and I kicked her in self-defense.  She looked shocked, but she never physically attacked me again.  I remember beatings that went way beyond "normal" corporal punishment (although I personally believe ALL corporal punishment is wrong and abusive, my mother took it to another level).  I remember her spying on me and my brother listening to us, and when she heard me one day say, "I hate Mom", she appeared out of nowhere and threw me to the floor screaming at me.  I was so terrified. 

Some of these memories I have supressed for years and are just now coming up for me at midlife.  It's just as bad, if not worse, than an abusive husband, and it's time to be recognized. 

[Duck]

Even though people are more accepting of the prospect of abusive fathers, it is still very taboo to say anything against your own father.

I apologize if the following is offensive. It is me trying to be brutally honest about myself.

I know sometimes I have conflicting feelings about discussing violent females. I try to analyze it because I don’t want anyone to be abused, including males abused by females and children abused by mothers.  I think part of it is that for basically my whole life, abusive men seemed to be excused for their behavior and utterly invulnerable. The misogyny all around me made me feel as if there would never be a reckoning, and I had an awareness of all the patriarchy and misogyny stretching back through the ages. I knew as misogynistic as my church, school, family, and society might be, my predecessors had it even worse. Now, things are not OK, but you see hopeful signs like the MeToo movement. Simultaneously, there appear to be men who are not happy with the MeToo movement and not happy with scrutiny of their behavior. A portion of them seem to be salivating at the prospect of redirecting this scrutiny back onto women, attempting to prove that women are just as violent as men, if not more so, women are the privileged ones, women are never held to account, women sexually abuse as much as men, etc. I have this terrible feeling that I was about to be listened to for approximately half a second and now I am drowned in anger toward women. I keep using the words “seem” and “appear” because I realize my feelings may not be accurate. It may not actually be this way. It may just seem this way to me.

I am reminded of something I read saying that sometimes Black women are reluctant to speak out about Black men in their lives because they are so acutely aware of all that Black men have endured and do endure in our (American) society. I will never understand their experiences, and my situation is not the same, but I wonder if have a similar protective feeling about women as a whole because I have seen women suffer so much at the hands of men. It is a conflicting feeling and I wonder if this is part of the taboo. It was really hard for us to get the right to vote or own property or even get a mortgage or credit card in our own names without a husband.

Having said all this, I believe all the stories I read here about abusive moms and have tremendous anger toward them. I am mad at my own mom.

[NarcKiddo]

I agree with moglow's first paragraph and I think it describes huge factors as to why there may be fewer responses that one would expect.

On top of the societal messages that mothers love their children unconditionally and you must honour your parents (regardless, it seems, of what they do) there are the messages from the mothers themselves. My mother drummed into me that nobody outside the immediate family could be trusted. I must not tell anybody anything. Even the most minor detail. For instance, she hated the school practice of asking us to write about what we had done at the weekend. It was just an innocent story composition lesson, but when she saw my stories were true (although they contained nothing except stuff like "we went shopping" or "we visited my aunt") she instructed me to lie in future because the school was "trying to find out private family information". Since I was forbidden to talk to anyone about life at home, or what my mother did, there was never any occasion for someone to act shocked. Thus I considered my life normal and my mother's behaviour as something any mother might do.

Also, I was not the type of child to try standing up to her repeatedly. Any early attempts went badly wrong. Since I knew she had the capacity to hurt me in any number of ways, both physical and emotional, I simply opted for hyper vigilance and appeasement. So the physical mistreatment abated.

My husband's mother was also physically abusive. She would beat all her children with wooden implements or the iron. She stopped beating my husband when he became big enough to retaliate but I think her daughters continued to get it.

In terms of there maybe being a me too movement for this - I can't see it ever taking off. I'm not sure I would even support it. I mean, how would it work? The only people who could corroborate the abuse (if any) would be a very small pool of close family members. Even if one could publicly shame the mother, to what end? Who would be protected? What seven-year-old child of a PD mother being treated as I was would have the means of knowing they were being abused, far less the ability to report it?  How would it then be dealt with? I, personally, do not want revenge. I don't want her to know she hurt me and revel in it all over again, if she did revel in it. She may genuinely have been doing her best, or believed she was, however crap that was. I just want to heal myself as best I can now I have finally woken up to the fact that I was, in fact, abused by my own mother. Raising support among ourselves, and knowing we are not alone, is probably about as much as we can hope for.

[carrots]

My M was physically abusive but I'm not in a state where I can write more about it atm. Maybe I'll come back to your questions sometime later, Jennifer. Could take weeks. Other stuff has priority atm.

[M0009803]

In my FOO, it usually went like this:

1. Mother went off in a rage, and hit us with belts, shoes, ski poles, brooms, pulled hair, etc. 

2. She would then spend years telling her friends how difficult we were while presenting a completely different persona to outside people.

Over the years, she built up a narrative that her children were difficult in public, while she abused us in private.

The chances of anybody believing me if I told them the truth are basically zero unless they see the her doing it (obviously this is very ulikely as she is quite old now).

I very much wanted to tell my entire extended family what she had done to us, but I came to realise it is a catch 22 situation, and that it would very likely extend the cycle of dysfunction and keep me from healing from the trauma.

I began to see the optimal "solution" in my case as enforced NC with strong boundaries, and to focus on my FOC, as the more happy memories you form with your FOC, the easier it becomes to let go of the dysfunction of your FOO.

It is likely a very different situation if you still interact a lot with your extended family, as you may then have to interact with your mother in social events while putting a public face on.    This is usually an energy-sucking experience, and it takes away from the enjoyment of a family gathering.