Anyone Else Here Too Often?

FiveForFighting · September 29, 2022, 09:05:14 AM

It seems the Out of the FOG browser tab remains open (at work) and I just scroll looking to learn more, looking to share more and looking for some sort of validation that I am not losing my mind. It is certainly harder when there is no one I can share events or situations with. And things have been happening at an irregular pace lately. Yesterday was a great day until I made a terribly traumatizing decision related to sandwich toppings. How could I have been so selfish? I did get subs for my uPDw and my D last night and all was well with the world until I decided to choose onions as a part of my sandwich. We were in the process of eating and my wife asked, did you get onions on your sandwich? To which I responded, yes. Commence fire. My choice of onion immediately indicated that I no longer care for my wife and that I no longer wanted to have sex with or touch my wife. Since she hates onions, hates when I smell like onions. She gets aggressive and says that it just confirms my inconsideration for her and my selfishness and that it proves that I dont "even consider sex as a possibility any longer". There was more but you get where I am going here. For some reason, this exchange really impacted me and I had nothing I could do or say to help and I sat quietly. To which, I get the "ah yes, silence again" comment. That was 800pm last night and is now ghosting me. *shoulder shrug* Ive got nothing. For some reason, I am hurt. Just a simple thing of onions and a sandwich, what the ish? I've spent 25 years with her, I love her dearly. How can you spend so much time loving someone and still feel so alone? Something has to give, I think. Or someone. Not sure what that looks like though. Rant over.

escapingman · September 29, 2022, 09:18:42 AM

I am here day and night, this is the only place where people get it. Without this place I would never had got Out of the FOG properly.

Your story reminds me so much about my STBX, there was a long list of food I wasn't allowed to eat. If I ate it she would get in a rage, for example she hate Indian food and I was not allowed to eat it. So I ate it when I was away, but she got angry because I was still smelling of it when I came home and just as you wrote how could I love her if I ate Indian food.

Stay strong and remember it is not you.

SonofThunder · September 29, 2022, 10:15:12 AM

Quote from: FiveForFighting on September 29, 2022, 09:05:14 AMand looking for some sort of validation that I am not losing my mind. It is certainly harder when there is no one I can share events or situations with.

Like EM, im here also, in and out throughout many days and evenings as well. Consider yourself validated by at minimum two male non's here on Out of the FOG with plenty of similar experiences with a PDw! You are NOT losing your mind and in fact, just the opposite! Your mind is gaining and awakening into a higher radar mode because of your education and fog-clearing.

Sure, imo sometimes turning unknowns to knowns has side-effects of increased awareness, and with great toolbox implementation comes increased emotional distance with the PD coupled also with increased persecution and victimization by the PD as the PD reacts to your new self-protection. But, in a relationship with a PD, awareness and knowledge is self-empowerment! You are very much not alone! We are here to read your sharing and experiences and provide encouragement and feedback. Rant on comrade!!

+1 to EM's comment "stay strong and remember it is not you"

SoT

bat123 · September 30, 2022, 09:29:37 AM

Yes, user, that is absolutely one of their greatest tricks. I was on the receiving end yesterday of over 50 angry, lecturing texts from husband, ranting at me and accusing me of being a "pathological liar' because I supposedly am lying about the details of my relationship with a high school friend. It's one of a thousand crazy examples I could give. I know we all have our own lists. I return here often because it's the only place I can get some perspective. When you exist inside these relationships you can lose any sense of what's normal and healthy. I feel at times like I'm fighting just to keep my head above water, fighting to get to a better place.

FiveForFighting · September 30, 2022, 09:45:48 AM

Quote from: bat123 on September 30, 2022, 09:29:37 AM
When you exist inside these relationships you can lose any sense of what's normal and healthy. I feel at times like I'm fighting just to keep my head above water, fighting to get to a better place.

YES bat!!!!! This is it exactly. I often sit and wonder what normal is, what does normal look like? I can't share with anyone because I dont have anyone. My uPDw sits in a position of authority at my church, I cannot go the pastor or anyone at my church. I get smoked or questioned for speaking to anyone outside of our marriage. She questions me and makes me feel shitty for speaking to anyone in my family, then will ask "why dont you ever contact your family?" or "why dont you ever go and visit your family?". LOL.. yeah because I dont like how you make me feel when I do.

Thank you all for sharing and for your words of support and encouragement.

bat123 · September 30, 2022, 02:25:54 PM

Hi, five! Yes, isolation from family and friends is a real thing. My biggest source of support is my sister, who of course he has found numerous reasons over the years to dislike. He never "forbids" me from seeing her, but he makes digs about her all the time, and refuses to attend any gathering where she's present. This summer I traveled by myself to see her for a few days, and it felt like I was being rebellious somehow. So glad I did it, though. I will never allow him to fracture that relationship again. For too many years I shut her out to appease him. The only thing I'll challenge you on is your last sentence about how you don't like how she "makes you feel" when you see your family. Please don't give her that much power! I can totally relate to feeling that way, of course! I've been trying to dig deep to explore the feelings (guilt? Obligation?) and to understand where they come from and why I feel them. I never want to think someone is "making" me feel anything! I'm trying to explore my own baggage, although it's not easy. But I think it's the only path to eventual liberation.

losingmyself · September 30, 2022, 02:48:51 PM

I feel that way, often. Like I'm just trolling and not going anywhere. But I am, and just being here among people who understand is life-changing. I only can repeat what people have said here, we're all kind of in the same boat, and it's eerie how our stories look so much alike.
I just wanted to expand on something bat123 was just talking about, and that is the 'how he makes me feel' idea.
This was an epiphany to me when I finally got it into my head.... the control over you that they think they have is all based on them 'making you feel...; fill in the blank.
But.... what if I decided that I am in control of how I feel. I mean, sure, people can make you feel good, sad, happy, hurt, but they're not doing it manipulatively, it's just your connection to them. Coming from our SO's, it's always bad. Fear, obligation, guilt. And it's always done with a purpose, for their benefit.
So I am going to say to myself "I feel" Not "You make me feel"
This changed my level of stress, so when I walked in the room, and he was sitting there with a scowl on his face, instead of letting his negative energy fill the room, and try to fix it, I just can say "Hu..sucks that you feel that way" I'll be over here, not being full of stress, and enjoying my day. It isn't an easy place to get to, but it helps.

arcticfox · October 01, 2022, 06:38:40 AM

I can absolutely relate to all of you. I keep this site open on my phone (on a hidden separate browser) and seem to constantly read it, just to have some validation or idea of what is "normal" and what is not. It has helped me feel sane for weeks now: before I found this place I was constantly thinking about what I was doing wrong or how could I communicate better, or even if I was the one behaving crazy, irrational or somehow hurting my partner. Then again, I occasionally feel almost guilt for being here so often and "getting ideas in my head", and worry that I'm getting too much confirmation bias and trying to see something malicious or hurtful on everything my partner does, if that makes sense?

But then again: it's not about the onions, FFF, and you know it. And you absolutely have a right to feel hurt. We all do. I have been accused of being a horrible and unsupportive partner for various reasons, including (but not limited to): wanting to pay the rent on time, asking if his kids have had dinner yet, suggesting we could watch a movie if he has time, smiling, not smiling, talking too softly, asking him politely to please not use an electric screwdriver or other noisy tools between 11pm and 7am, buying cheese, not buying cheese, and the latest, starting a phone call with him by saying "Hi, how's your evening going".

Apparently saying that was horribly insulting, and he point blank accused me of ruining everything on purpose and making him sad, angry and depressed. I never imagined I'd have such magical power over other peoples feelings. Then, when I paused because I was so stunned by this accusation, I just calmly repeated back to him "I'm sorry, did you just say that I completely and deliberately ruined your evening by saying Hi how's it going?". He replied "what, of course not, dont be crazy, I didn't say anything like that". "No, sorry that IS literally exactly what you said 15 seconds ago". And so on and so forth, you know how this dance goes.

It's not the onions, it's not the Indian food, it's not saying "Hi how's it going". If they feel hurt and angry, they will find something you did to blame it on, and it doesnt really matter what it is.

Srcyu · October 01, 2022, 09:33:53 AM

The business with the onions (how dare you) is linked to her strong wish to be the centre of your universe. She quickly moved it along to the subject of being intimate because that seemingly gave her the power of declaring it would not be happening and that it was all your fault.

All that from eating a sandwich. The resentment she must have felt when you put the enjoyment of eating onions over her self-centred demands on your life - it's a wonder you didn't choke on it.

lkdrymom · October 04, 2022, 08:57:16 AM

All control issues here. And I agree with the person who says she wants to be the center of your universe. If you didn't have onions it would have been something else. Almost as if they are looking for a fight.

PlantFlowersNotWeeds · October 05, 2022, 08:10:40 AM

This brought back memories - and, yes, if not onions something else.

My exPDH used to get mad at the shampoo I used or face cream ( the smell bothered him) but he could smoke cigarettes in the garage and smell up the entire house. Looking back, he would get so angry and I think he truly believed that I purposely used products just to try to trigger his allergies. No wonder I stopped doing so many things.

Cascade · October 06, 2022, 01:14:58 AM

When I first discovered this site, I felt like it was food for my starving soul, and I was here a lot. Reading posts, asking numerous questions, finding others that experienced the same odd behaviours, and having my eyes opened. This is a great forum with warm people full of amazing insights.
I still come here regularly but not as often as I did in the beginning.

Fae Greenwood · October 09, 2022, 01:36:08 PM

Quote from: arcticfox on October 01, 2022, 06:38:40 AM
I can absolutely relate to all of you. I keep this site open on my phone (on a hidden separate browser) and seem to constantly read it, just to have some validation or idea of what is "normal" and what is not. It has helped me feel sane for weeks now: before I found this place I was constantly thinking about what I was doing wrong or how could I communicate better, or even if I was the one behaving crazy, irrational or somehow hurting my partner. Then again, I occasionally feel almost guilt for being here so often and "getting ideas in my head", and worry that I'm getting too much confirmation bias and trying to see something malicious or hurtful on everything my partner does, if that makes sense?

But then again: it's not about the onions, FFF, and you know it. And you absolutely have a right to feel hurt. We all do. I have been accused of being a horrible and unsupportive partner for various reasons, including (but not limited to): wanting to pay the rent on time, asking if his kids have had dinner yet, suggesting we could watch a movie if he has time, smiling, not smiling, talking too softly, asking him politely to please not use an electric screwdriver or other noisy tools between 11pm and 7am, buying cheese, not buying cheese, and the latest, starting a phone call with him by saying "Hi, how's your evening going".

Apparently saying that was horribly insulting, and he point blank accused me of ruining everything on purpose and making him sad, angry and depressed. I never imagined I'd have such magical power over other peoples feelings. Then, when I paused because I was so stunned by this accusation, I just calmly repeated back to him "I'm sorry, did you just say that I completely and deliberately ruined your evening by saying Hi how's it going?". He replied "what, of course not, dont be crazy, I didn't say anything like that". "No, sorry that IS literally exactly what you said 15 seconds ago". And so on and so forth, you know how this dance goes.

It's not the onions, it's not the Indian food, it's not saying "Hi how's it going". If they feel hurt and angry, they will find something you did to blame it on, and it doesnt really matter what it is.

Arcticfox, are you watching a camera feed of my house?! But seriously, this is what happens with my uNPDh.

I spent a lot of time on this site in the beginning and had to pull back as I climbed Out of the FOG, but then my signature says it all. I do look a lot, i just can't sign in unless I think I'll have a certain period of privacy. And thank all of you who have shown me that I'm am, in fact, not crazy.

rainintheface2023 · October 27, 2022, 07:57:37 AM

I can relate as well! After years of this I do wonder what is normal behaviour in this situation? Is it wrong to eat the onions even though you know your spouse doesn't like it or the smell of it on you?

JustKeepTrying · October 27, 2022, 11:40:47 AM

This is such an incredible community and yes, I am here all the time. Glad to see and know that I am not alone.

Love your handle btw

losingmyself · October 27, 2022, 02:20:03 PM

EAT THE ONIONS!!!
It is liberating. I realized that I stopped doing many things in the last 10 years because HE didn't like them.
Eat the onions
Skip the shower
Have the stinky cheese

There's always going to be something, so I decided that I'm going to be me.
This hasn't all come at once, I dipped my toes in. Maybe making a dish every once in a while that I knew he would complain about. Guess what? He ate it anyway.
I got hand lotion that smelled good. I got a new watch band that I knew he wouldn't like, but I like it.
Eat the onions. Lots of them.
I bet next time you have onions, she won't even notice

SonofThunder · October 27, 2022, 05:41:02 PM

Quote from: losingmyself on October 27, 2022, 02:20:03 PM
EAT THE ONIONS!!!
It is liberating. I realized that I stopped doing many things in the last 10 years because HE didn't like them.
Eat the onions
Skip the shower
Have the stinky cheese

There's always going to be something, so I decided that I'm going to be me.
This hasn't all come at once, I dipped my toes in. Maybe making a dish every once in a while that I knew he would complain about. Guess what? He ate it anyway.
I got hand lotion that smelled good. I got a new watch band that I knew he wouldn't like, but I like it.
Eat the onions. Lots of them.
I bet next time you have onions, she won't even notice

+1

SoT

Pepin · October 27, 2022, 07:29:30 PM

I am also here often....or used to be. But I still check in and see if I have anything to add that might be helpful for someone. I have lots of work to do on myself and I feel ashamed posting sometimes....but, it takes until we are ready to be able to do something about it, I guess.

SeaBreeze · October 27, 2022, 07:51:02 PM

I once posted on here that I use the Tools more than I want to, but probably not as much as I need to. I'm kind of the same about coming to Out of the FOG overall: I wish there was no need to have to come here in the first place, but I am sooo grateful you all are here when I need you. ❤️

downwiththefog · November 04, 2022, 06:36:28 AM

Quote from: SonofThunder on September 29, 2022, 10:15:12 AM
sometimes turning unknowns to knowns has side-effects of increased awareness, and with great toolbox implementation comes increased emotional distance with the PD coupled also with increased persecution and victimization by the PD as the PD reacts to your new self-protection. But, in a relationship with a PD, awareness and knowledge is self-empowerment!

Thanks for this - makes me feel stronger