Nicey-nice

[Associate of Daniel]

Recently, UNPD exH (read, his UNPD wife) has requested (demanded) we enter a discussion about the fact that we ignore each other when at events for ds15.

He rightly says that we should show ds that we can get along with each other.

I told him (email only communication) that I have decided not to involve myself in the discussion.

I didn't give a reason - you folk understand why:  It would be adding fuel to their fire.

But also, what would be the point, even if we could agree?

Why not just start acting respectful when we next see each other? Which, by the way is not likely to happen for a very long time. Maybe for ds's 18th, graduation, 21st and wedding.

Anyway, UNPD exH and his UNPD wife have been speaking to ds about it and he now is talking about it being easier for people to attend just one 16th, 18th etc..

He doesn't actually want us to attend together. The thought of it horrifies him.  But his dream understandably is that we can all be one big happy family, and everyone have a happy time together at such events.

I feel like I'm heading to a big reality talk with ds.

I so want to tell him that his UNPD father and UNPD smother are not safe people for me to be around, including to speak any words to. That anything I say is fuel for their fire and that they don't understand the to and fro of "discussion". That they take personal offence whenever I express an opinion or need and they use everything I say/do and how I say/do it against me at a later date.

But he will probably tell them what I say.

Please, please tell me what to do.

AOD

[Srcyu]

I think it would be weird to show ds 'how well we all get along together.'
It would be a lie. I suspect exH simply wants to put on a show for those who may be watching, so he can claim not to have completely wrecked the family.

He does not get to tell you what to do any more and his new wife doesn't get to boss you about either.

Polite negatives are the way forward I think - 'No thank you'. 'No, I don't think so'. 'No, but thanks anyway'. 'That doesn't suit me, sorry' and so on.

It's too bad that your exH wants to call all the shots. He has had his own way for far too long.
Here's another suggested response - 'No, I won't be doing that.' and 'No, I can't agree with you there.'

Keeping it simple with your son would be my suggestion. You don't like how they speak to you and you don't wish to see them.

[Rose1]

Quite some years ago dd was "invited" to a "family discussion" with her father and his new wife.
She was at the time nc because new wife had ordered her off the property when she went there to talk to her father about her grandfather. Apparently it was taken as a complaint.

Anyway it was the last straw of a very long difficult time with bpdexh where he either ignored his d for long stretches, demanded time with the girls, dumped them on his parents, had them around with very unsavoury people etc etc. Very fortunately this only happened a few times a year while he ignored them the rest of the time.

So back to the family meeting. The invitation took me back to other "family meetings" with bpdexh and his parents (ubpmil and enfil) the purpose of which was to brow beat me into submission over something they wanted by criticism, accusations, yelling, emotional blackmail etc while bpdexh sat and never defended me. I put up with 2 of these and never again. And here was bpdexh about to pull the same stunt on dd. It was to be a "discussion" about his rights to walk her down the aisle. New wife and him on one side, her on the other. I told her what had happened and said under no circumstances put yourself in  that position, ever. She didn't.

Exbpdh was so upset that his rights were violated he showed his lovely personality under his mask. New wife also showed hers by writing a nasty letter accusing dd of causing her father much pain. Upshot was they didn't get invited to the wedding either. Win win.

It became clear that this was all because he wanted something. Knowing him, new wife has gotten into his ear about his rights (always guaranteed to have him sit up and get motivated). So he decided that he would bully dd into complying so he could say how he walked his d down the aisle despite seeing her so infrequently it was possible he wouldn't have recognised her in the street. Funnily enough discussion about his right to provide child support never got the same amount of buy in.

My thinking is that someone has gotten into smother's ear and she's got it in her head she looks bad. Ok it is what it is. Not your problem to fix.

As you say, she could be polite without a meeting. I assume the meeting is so she can say "I tried so hard but couldn't get anywhere boo hoo" crocodile tears and I look good again. There's always a reason behind these sudden changes and they're 99.9% about the pd.

Personally I think your son is still a bit young and in the fog to.have that sort of discussion  with him and he's in an awkward position living with them. I love the other responses above. He knows very well how smother talks to you and it's no stretch for him to understand you don't wish to see her. He doesn't want you both at events for a reason and it's not you. So the light might be dawning but boys that age are very hormonal and this kind of stuff is hard.
A little while ago I listened to an episode of conversations on the ABC. It was an interview with a woman who was a teacher of adolescent boys and it was eye opening about their emotional development. I thought of you but it slipped my mind. I will see if I can find it. i have girls and step sons and it was such an interesting interview that anyone with adolescent boys in their lives would benefit.
All the best.

[Rose1]

I can't find the interview. I think it's been deleted. I'm not sure but I think it was with Celia Lashlie who has passed away. She has written a number of books on young men but I haven't read them so not sure how much is relevant. Her interview was only 1 hour but covered hormonal development and how it affects the adolescent brain. Some of that may be in her book
He'll be Ok
Growing Gorgeous Boys into Good Men 10th AnniversaryEdition
By: Celia Lashlie

But not sure. It's had some great reviews but again may not be useful for dealing with a pd environment.

[Associate of Daniel]

Thank-you Rose, and Windmill.

The "discussion" they want is to be done on email.  They thankfully haven't asked for an in person meeting.

But you've reminded me of the various occasions in the past when Ds's uNPD smother requested we meet via a counsellor.  I've realised that this is just the same thing.

The difficulty is that ds is now older and it's harder to know how to speak to him about it.

Funnily enough, the latest email from uNPD exH (which was actually very well thought out and frustratingly correct in many parts), mentioned the child focussed counselling we did prior to Covid.  Maybe I should suggest we do that again.  Last time I suggested  reviving it I received crickets for a reply.

I don't think anyone will have got into the uNPD smother's ear.  I think she realises that her supply from me is dwindling because ds15 is getting older.  He's just given up his weekly sport, he's travelling more by public transport to our respective houses and there are fewer school activities for us to attend.  She will have got into uNPD exH's ear instead, and he's probably being the dutiful husband to keep the peace.  Although, he does like to look more important and the better parent than me, so maybe that's it too.

I realised after I started this thread that I had already posted a similar one in the religious section and had received helpful replies there.  (Sorry!)

Tomorrow night is PT interviews for ds.  Until this year, I have not done any of them with him as he always goes with his uNPD father and uNPD smother.  I've always attended my own interviews separately.  But ds has requested to do some with me this time.  I'm dreading it - I'm worried she will turn up and accost me, like she did last time at a school event.  That led to me researching restraining orders and collecting phone numbers for local police.

Fun.

AOD

[Srcyu]

Try to avoid dreading it. You will be going for your son's sake because he has asked for  you be there.  You have every right to attend - far more so than her.
I think it's a safe bet that she won't bother you when all the teachers are around.

My suggestion for dealing with her should she appear in the car park or somewhere is - stand and listen silently while she unleashes her verbal assault. When she stops, look away and walk away
.
It works - I've had it done to me. It's instant dismissal.

[Associate of Daniel]

Thanks, Windmill.

Last time she demanded we walk together to my car.  I couldn't stop her.

Anyway, ds probably won't attend now as UNPD exH has thrown a tanty about me seeing ds on his (uNPD exH's) time.

Says he won't allow it because I refuse to discuss co parenting with him.

Ironic since I'd sent him a courtesy email telling him of ds's request to attend some of the meetings with me and that I'd given ds the times of the meetings and told him (ds) that I'm fine with it if he changes his mind. He's already attending the meetings with his UNPD dad a few hours earlier anyway.

So I'm co parenting by enabling ds to do what he wants to do and by sending his UNPD father a courtesy email about it..... But I'm NOT coparenting?!?🤔

I don't get it.

AOD

[PlantFlowersNotWeeds]

After reading the posts, it's like quick sand trying to suck you in.  Setting up situations for them to control and to cause drama.

I can't even imagine doing a school conference with my exPDH.  No way - if it didn't go badly, I know I'd walk away feeling awful.

Remember - you don't have to do anything you don't want to.  I agree with the suggestion of being brief with your son.  "that doesn't sound like a good idea" or "I'm uncomfortable with that".  If he wants to know more, he'll ask.  Knowing teenagers, most won't ask any more questions.  If he does, be honest but from the place you think he's at as his mother. 

I tend to cross the line with my son - he's 18.  I'm trying to get better - slow progress.

[Associate of Daniel]

I'm currently sitting in the car outside the school waiting to go in to the interviews.

Shallow breathing, sweaty palms. Head full of strategies.  Eyes darting, searching for the uNPDs.

STARVING.🤣 I hope my tummy doesn't rumble during the interviews.

AOD

[hhaw]

Hope the PT meeting went well, AOD.

[Associate of Daniel]

Thanks, hhaw.

The interviews went well.  All of the teachers love ds15.  And rightly so, if I may say. 🤗 He's a really terrific teenager.  I am truly in awe of the gift that he is.

The UNPDs didn't show up.  I was vigilant and strategizing all the way through the 2 hours...

including where I parked the car , which side of the street I walked along, which entry/exit doors and gates I used, scripts to ask people for help walking me back to my car, scripts to explain my not continuing the interviews, locating a man to walk me to my car and pausing before turning the corner on the return to it.  I was terrified the UNPD smother would be standing next to the car waiting for me.

I started driving home in tears and I don't think I breathed for several kilometres.  It wasn't until I was about 20 km away from the school that I started to feel safe.

Ridiculous!  I must be more traumatised than I realised.

And I slept badly.

Now I have to manage conversation with my boy tonight.  (I can't wait to see him.)  I dread what (ill)logic he has been fed by the uNPDs and am praying he can see through it.

I'm really scared this might do a number on our really good relationship.

AOD

[hhaw]

Ask your son what he feels about you guys "getting along" at social events, AOD.

He might be far more perceptive than you know.

[Associate of Daniel]

Thanks, Hhaw.  I've been having various conversations with him but he is struggling to process what's going on and doesn't want to talk about it/doesn't know how to express his thoughts in words.

Anyway, the latest:  I told uNPD exH that I would discuss this topic if it is done via a professional 3rd party in seperate appointments, like we a did a few years ago. I suggested we return to the previous counsellor.

I was calling his bluff - but he's taken me up on it. 

He refuses to return to the previous one of course.  And he's found another one that he thinks is suitable.  Looking at her write up, I see nothing that indicates she does child focussed counselling.  Couples counselling, hypnosis (!), anxiety, depression, trauma, addictions, dreams(!).  Nothing about child focussed counselling.

Anyway, I'm waiting for a call back from them to ascertain whether or not she is willing to do ongoing individual appointments.  UNPD exH is trying to insist that we do sessions together.  As far as I'm concerned that is not going to happen.

I've been through this circus so many times over the last 10 years with uNPD exH and his uNPD wife.  I guess it aint over til it's over.

AOD