what do I say?

[losingmyself]

What did you say to your x when you told them you wanted to split up?
Really, I don't know the words to say to answer the questions he's going to ask. I know that he's going to act surprised and ask why. I know I can't start a list of things he's done to make me not love him any more. He's not going to believe a single word I say, or take any responsibility.
So, what do I say?

[Kat54]

It's very tough having that conversation.
In several conversations I told my ex I was very unhappy basically. And every conversation I would tell him that and then expand in what I needed him to hear.
He had or still has a lot of anxiety, plus his emotional and verbal abuse and how it affected our entire family.
I didn't directly address the abuse as it was very hard for me to talk about that. I also did fear him a little. He over all is a very angry and negative person but he didn't seem to see it that way.

At another conversation we went out to dinner where I knew he wouldn't throw a huge fit in public and we talked further.  Because I told him I wanted to move out.

I did write things down and went over in my head how to verbalize what I was feeling.

But overall it's an unpleasant and very difficult conversation. The hardest conversation I've ever had with someone.

Best of luck.

[escapingman]

I told STBX multiple times that I had enough of her abuse and wanted a divorce. She never took me seriously and when I had a solicitor initiate the divorce and sent her a letter to engage she still refused to agree. In the end I filed without her agreeing and she still didn't accept ut and tried to change my mind until I had to get s court order to get her out.

So, it's all depending on how disordered he is and what he wants. What we say doesn't really matter.

[hhaw]

If you adjust your expectations and accept your reality.....I believe you'll suffer less when telling stbx you're splitting up.

KNOW nothing you say will change your stbx's likely attempt to guilt, shame and/ scare you into staying will likely morph into a sustained effort to sabotage, thwart and otherwise alter your plan to leave through a relentless chaos manufacturing effort that will likely bring you to your emotional and physical knees over and over again IF you remain in the same space and allow the Stbx unrestricted access to you.

Accept your PD will remain or fake ignorance around your reasons for leaving.  It's almost certain ANY understanding of agreement you receive will be a manipulation tactic OR a distraction to stop you seeing what they're doing in the background......backstabbing, lying, cheating and thriving, etc.

What you tell them is less important than how proactive you are BEFORE they know you're leaving, ime.

Separate bank accounts, make safe all treasured possessions, maybe have a place to go set up and GO BEFORE telling them if safetyvus an issue OR you can in your State without compromising your suit.

Your stbx will never accept your decision.  Will never understand your reasons.  Will never validate you or approve of your status as deserving better treatment, bc you're not as far as they're concerned.

You remaining where you are, receiving what you've been taking us exactly what they neeeed and you're going to be shocked, appalled, staggered and challenged in ways you never saw coming once your stbx knows you're leaving, so....
think about you and your needs and don't waste time trying to siften the news or explain your position.

Instead accept your stbx will turn everything you say against you....no matter what you say so better to consider keeping it short and concise, ime. 

Get safe FIRST if it's an issue.

Handle documents and cherished items....maje them safe too.

Form what you're going to tell the PD around an easy to understand concept they can't pick apart in minute detail.

"I don't want to remain in this marriage any longer" is enough.  You don't have to give any more if an explanation, bc the PD will begin picking it apart, gaslighting you, denying your reality, whatever they do now expect it to escalate badly as those typical tactics fail to get you under control.

Distance, radically enforced limited to zero contact is where YOU will grow stronger and find yourself again, ime.

The more contact you have with stbx...the more you need their approval and understanding...the more you need to be seen as caring and compassionate the more trouble and suffering and time and resources this us going to cost you, one.

The clean cut is typically better tgan what we think will be the kind cut.

Heck.....theres a saying...
" The kind cut is the stinkiest cut."

That's a truth most of us on this forum learned the hardest of ways.

Also, look at your evidence and consider crafting the basis of your divorce petition around that OR just choose irreconcilable differences if there's nothing to be gained by explaining your spouse's disordered behavior, bc it's more difficult than you think IF you can't back up any piece of it with evidence, ime.

If you need protection, bc of abuse, you should get the Order before you tell them, ime.

But drop the idea there's magic words to limit the stbx's difficult reaction, sabotage and escalation, bc what they SAY will bring peace is always ALWAYS a manipulation to weaken your case and strengthen yours, in my experience, of course.

Find supporters.  Make a good exit plan.  Stick to it.  Limit all contact as can be managed.

Heck.....you can move and take children BEFORE you file a divorce, but typically not after so......look way down the road before telling the PD anything and stop worrying about what to say and what they'll do, bc it's going to be messy.

The only way to get ahead is to be proactive and you know better than anyone what your stbx will use against you.

Do what you can to limit harm.

Don't try to explain your truth to the PD.  Accept that battle is lost and over.....shift to self compassion and mitigating harm.

Good luck

[PlantFlowersNotWeeds]

Re-read HHaw's post - being proactive is very important, probably more so than the actual act of telling them it's over.

I was lucky - I choose to do it with him at his own therapist appointment- I was actually joining them to discuss our marriage, but I took advantage of the time and just blurted out that I wanted a divorce, spoke a few minutes, then left.  Felt fantastic.  Before I left, my exPD started talking about how he felt "unsafe" with me.  OMG - really?  After that comment, I just said that he didn't need to feel that way so I'm doing him a favor by wanting a divorce.

I think that once you have pre-planned and set up whatever you need to financially, then the time and how you say it will feel a little easier to handle.

[JustKeepTrying]

If you are ready to leave, follow HHaw's advice and go.

Nothing you say will change your partner.  What you are mourning now is not your partner but the dream of what you wanted for the two of you.  Mourn that dream and then you will come to the realization that is all it was - a dream.  It will be hard but you will be ok.

I did not have the conversation with him until much later.  I packed and left while he was at work.  It was the safest way for me to leave

After several months and most of the way through the divorce, I did consent to talk with him.  He pleaded and swore he would change - to which I offered to stay if the continued with therapy but that I needed to separate accounts and live separately while he worked on himself and we could meet and with time come back together.  He declined.

[Boat Babe]

Re-read HHaw's post - being proactive is very important, probably more so than the actual act of telling them it's over.

I was lucky - I choose to do it with him at his own therapist appointment- I was actually joining them to discuss our marriage, but I took advantage of the time and just blurted out that I wanted a divorce, spoke a few minutes, then left.  Felt fantastic.  Before I left, my exPD started talking about how he felt "unsafe" with me.  OMG - really?  After that comment, I just said that he didn't need to feel that way so I'm doing him a favor by wanting a divorce.

I think that once you have pre-planned and set up whatever you need to financially, then the time and how you say it will feel a little easier to handle.

Wish I'd been a fly on the wall. Well played.

[Catothecat]

What I said?  Almost nothing. 

I just told him I was moving out because I'd found an apartment.  And for once, this glib talker of a husband had nothing to say.  I gave no explanations, no nothing.  At that point, I was done with the marriage.  He'd been bluffing for several years about how maybe we should split up, how I wasn't the wife he expected, how I was the one with all the issues and all the faults etc.  He really didn't want us to split up but was using the possibility as a threat in order to keep me in line.  As long as I kept in my place, he had everything he wanted so why should he leave me?!

Like the others have said, there really is nothing you can say they will listen to.  They only hear their own thoughts and words.  Their reality is the only one that exists.  Any conversation will be you beating your head against a wall.

We spend way too much time and energy and thought on how to deal with them.  They have a way of consuming us even as we know the relationship is over.  Better that time and energy and thought be spent on taking care of yourself first and getting things in order.  Having self-determination is something they never, ever want us to have and will never voluntarily allow.  You have to assert it and stick with it to show you're serious. 

[losingmyself]

Thank you, everyone for your lovely responses. I appreciate them so much and will continue to read them over and over.
I was just sitting here trying to work up the courage to call the lawyer and ask questions, and reading this gives me strength. So thank you, from the bottom of my heart.

[JustKeepTrying]

 

[hhaw]

Ok.
Depending on your situation, maybe consider interviewing the top divorce attorneys in your County.  That way your stbx can't hire them.

Also, consider how safe you'll be when your stbx finds out you're filing or have filed.  Do you need someone with you, or do you need an Order Of Protection or to be 3 States away to feel safe?

Have a list of questions for your attorney. 

Do they have experience with high conflict divorces where one litigant doesn't want the divorce and pulls every stunt to prolong priceedings.  BTW, most attorneys will say they've seen everything, litigated against criminal types etc, but I found they didn't and they only learned from my getting my teeth kicked out (fig. mostly) and there were tricks I didn't understand for being heard and believed rather than dismissed and punished.

As a priority, telling the PD story can make us look crazy if we blather about every PD detail without evidence to prove our "allegations."

Pulling together every bit of evidence BEFORE seeing the attorney, having it on hand and laying it out, to back up the top 3 or 4 issues, will get you on the right footing with an attorney, ime.

Your attorney will help you formulate the theory if your case, which will be the basis for you Divorce Petition which can take more or less time.  Less time is cheaper, so knowing your evidence, having it organized and safe is being proactive and getting out in front of the stbx' s retaliation, chaos manufacture and foot dragging campaign.

An ounce of prevention is worth 10 lbs of cure when divorcing a PD, one.

Really think about how that would work for you.

You have to stop needing to protect and caretake the PD's feelings.

You have to accept NOTHIBG you can do will in any way change how your stbx reacts.

You have zero control and you're better off if you make a goid plan with trustworthy supporters andcatuck to it, no matter what.

[losingmyself]

I did another baby step this morning. I called and spoke to a lawyer. I had my questions written down so as to not waste time, and it went ok.
The only thing I don't like is that he said I might compromise my right to the house if I leave, just to give him time to get his stuff out, unless we have it in writing that I will get the house, and I don't have any legal rights to tell him he has to leave. I didn't bring up abuse, because I didn't want to complicate things.
Overall, it was informative and if it's not disputed, less expensive than I thought. I live in a no-fault state, so I don't have to explain anything.
So, I'm going to work on writing down the things I'd like to keep, and writing an agreement.
One more step that you all have helped with. I know I'm slow to do things, but I am moving forward.

[escapingman]

Well done losingmyself, that is a big step! But despite how hard it is, you will need to tell about the abuse as there might be ways to force him out of the house depending on the laws where you live. I used the laws here where I live to force my STBX out, my lawyer recommended me to never leave the house as that could make things more difficult.

[hhaw]

losingmyself:

If you don't feel threatened or the need to protect yourself, maybe skipping the abuse is the proper way to proceed.

That's how my first divorce attorney approached my first divorce petition, then everything blew up in ways I hope you never have to experience, and I had to amend my original petition with the domestic violence AND try to get a restraining order, which my attorney said I couldn't get bc 'it was too close to Christmas" which was complete BS, btw.  I could have gone to the magistrate court myself and asked, but I didn't know that and my expensive, on the top 100 list of attorneys WOULDN'T tell me anything I needed to know about the divorce process, which hurt me a lot bc I was married to a sociopath with heavy N features willing to go to ANY length to "win." 

Winning will mean something different for your stbx...... but there are typically intersections with PDs......
they usually drag their feet in a divorce they don't want, ask their attorneys for information they'll USE TO StOP or slow down the divorce, use your personal items to pressure you into doing things that weaken your case, make it difficult for you to sleep or rest, guilt you, prey on your emotions, go back and forth between love bombing and playing interpersonal terrorist, sometimes assault  or threaten assault against you or someone you care about, begin a smear campaign against you, lie, steal and cheat in all things.

I'm likely leaving things out, but you have only to read through a few divorcing stories on this board to understand what kind of heinous fockery you'll likely be up against
once
you
tell
your
stbx
you're
leaving.

Do you really want the house?  Do you think your PD will want the house?  What are the chances your leaving and SAYING you don't want the house will have your PD insisting YOU TAKE THE HOUSE?

Assuming your stbx will behave as you'd behave is a mistake, IME.
Assuming you can control anything they do is typically not possible and is a waste of time and energy.

[losingmyself]

Yes, thanks for the great advice! I realize that in the end, I might not get the house, and I really don't know what to do after I give him the news, so I have to make a plan. Maybe I move out, what I think is temporarily, and he ends up getting the house. Well, I'll still be free from him. One thing about the house is that when I bought it, myself, before we were married, I put a substantial down payment on it. I was prepared to learn that I didn't have any right to claim that since we've refinanced the house, we're married,  etc.  Turns out, if he wants the house, or if he insists on selling it and splitting the profit, which there isn't really any, I get my down payment back. Or to say, he would owe me that money.
I agree that I have no idea how he's going to react. I really don't. His first wife moved out and he packed up her stuff, and rented a storage container for her. Wish me luck

[Poison Ivy]

I wish you luck!

[hhaw]

Good luck!

[JustKeepTrying]

 

[losingmyself]

There was a question my S asked me today that the lawyer didn't answer, and she was right when she said that maybe I should talk to a different lawyer. She asked me what his advice was on what I should do about the house, because he told me that technically I can't kick him out, and if I leave I might compromise my right to the house. But I cannot tell him I want a divorce or serve him papers, and stay there with him. No way. So, Mr Lawyer never gave me another option. I think he just wasn't my guy, so move on. That's ok.
It's nice to have a person IRL to talk to. It means so much. I get what you meant when you all told me I needed that.
S was close by this weekend, so we got to visit. It was awesome to see her. She did a very good job hiding her irritation with H, but we didn't get to speak  privately. Today we talked on the phone, she said she noticed a couple snide comments that earlier she might have just brushed off, but yesterday she heard one and thought "Oh, there's one! I caught that!" I sure love my family.
Today at lunchtime, right when he got in the car, he asked "So, have you made a list yet?"
I asked what for, and he said "What you want in the divorce"
This is him getting pleasure in making me uncomfortable, squirming.
He'll be completely surprised when I serve him papers. I have a hard time not calling him names...I'll have to go write in my journal.

[SonofThunder]

I wish you the best losingmyself.  Thoughts and prayers that when the time comes, you find the right words that coincide with your confidence and determination.

SoT