A little contact and the difficulties it brings

[Merrygoround]

Thanks for the welcome a while ago on the welcome board. Since then, there has been a little contact - just one phone call where father talked about his medical issues and mother was in the background dictating what he should say - a common scenario. Other than that, a couple of Whatsapp messages.
The problem is, my partner is deeply upset with the contact. He is very shaken because of what we went through with them and the level of abuse that occured. With good reason, he is extremely concerned with my well-being, considering how unwell it made me several years ago.

I really don't know how to handle this. He is very anxious and I've tried to reassure him that the door hasn't been thrown wide open. I am very wary.  I'm not comfortable and I have no trust in them.  Probably why I should be asking myself what I am doing being in contact, as minimal as it is. 

I hate seeing my partner suffer so much though.  It has just brought everything back to him and I feel responsible, yet also in the middle.

[Leonor]

Hello Merry,

It is very very difficult to extricate and disentangle and de-enmesh all of the roots and tendrils of an abusive relationship. It's like a thicket, and we often can't see the forest for the underbrush.

Your partner is giving you clear communication that re-engaging with your parents is unhealthy. He is wary of their intentions and, likely, feels betrayed by your contacting them after having endured their abuse of you both and having come to a place of clarity and commitment with you.

I think that, based on what you have noted in your post, that he is right. Here's why:

1. You say that in the past contact with them has been abusive, has hurt you and has damaged your primary relationship with your partner.

2. Your partner has invested time and effort in making the relationship with your parents work, and stood by you throughout because he lives and cares about you and your well-being.

3. Your parents have not changed in any significant way since you last were in contact with them. They are already showing themselves for who they are (covert narcissist and domineering) with absolutely no concern for you, your partner, your relationship, their abuse and the reasons why you went no contact in the first place.

4. You know there has been no change on their part, are not clear on why you have re-engaged with them, understand that this is inflicting pain on your partner, and know that there is no "middle ground" with your parents.

It's your parents, not your partner, who is making you "choose" and placing you in the "middle."

I would gently encourage you to find Dr. Ken Adams on YouTube. His work on enmeshment is kind, wise, and clear.

Wishing you much love and support in the challenging but healing time!

[Srcyu]

Hi,
No matter how your partner feels about this, overall the final decision must be yours. It's sad that he is deeply upset but they are your parents and you call the shots.

Letting him see the WhatsApp messages shows trust and openness on your part. It would be far worse if you had kept it a secret from him.

You probably will go no contact again, but at your own pace. Hopefully your partner can help you through this stage without causing you more upset along the way.

[escapingman]

Having been there myself as the partner, my in laws (one covert narc and one overt narc) tried to run our lives. My STBX (covert narc) could not set boundaries with them and complained about being in the middle between me and them. I fully understand your partner and that he feels that they could come back into your lives when you have started contact. The only good my in laws did was to keep STBX so occupied with them that she had no time to use me as supply, as soon as she minimised contact with them I became the new target. It's your parents, that means it's ultimately your decision, but pay attention to your partner as he might not have the energy or stamina to support you if round 2 and 3 comes along.

[Call Me Cordelia]

I guess what is the good derived from this contact? I'm seeing only stress and anxiety in your post. Leonor's observations are very apt. I see the back to business as usual, talking about themselves only, not addressing the elephant in the room, as a huge red flag.

[Merrygoround]

I wanted to thank you all for your kind and eloquent replies.
My partner and I had a long talk and he really doesn't want anything to do with them - understandably because they have not reached out to him at all to apologise and try to make amends for their behaviour towards him.  I respect his decision on that matter.  It is also one of many reasons why I do not see any meaningful relationship going forward with my parents, outside of pretty meaningless, short conversations where I grey rock.   I suppose the question therefore is what is the point in contact with them if it isn't with a deeper meaning or connection.
Mine and my partner's well-being is my priority.  There is absolute transparency whenever they have contacted me and he has seen the messages.  He is accepting of us being in contact to some degree , as it is at present, but rightly doesn't see much of a way forward.  Maybe it is early days after not speaking for years, but I think he may be right.

[mary_poppins]

Thanks for the welcome a while ago on the welcome board. Since then, there has been a little contact - just one phone call where father talked about his medical issues and mother was in the background dictating what he should say - a common scenario. Other than that, a couple of Whatsapp messages.
The problem is, my partner is deeply upset with the contact. He is very shaken because of what we went through with them and the level of abuse that occured. With good reason, he is extremely concerned with my well-being, considering how unwell it made me several years ago.

I really don't know how to handle this. He is very anxious and I've tried to reassure him that the door hasn't been thrown wide open. I am very wary.  I'm not comfortable and I have no trust in them.  Probably why I should be asking myself what I am doing being in contact, as minimal as it is. 

I hate seeing my partner suffer so much though.  It has just brought everything back to him and I feel responsible, yet also in the middle.

Merrygoround-it is a very good idea to journal about the reason you made a crack in that door. Why letting them in even if it's just a little? I am sure there are good reasons and you knowing them will make a world of difference.

There is a video by Jerry Wise where he asks the viewer to journal on the advantages and benefits of staying in contact with their abusive parents.

What do we get from them, what makes contact with them appealing? I did that and discovered that I was deeply afraid of the feeling of being 'an orphan', loneliness is frowned upon in our family. You are made to feel like a loser if you have no relationship/no friends.
So the feeling is deeply ingrained, it's not my feeling. It made so much sense to be afraid of feeling like a loser/shameful/broken beyond repair without my family-which led to me pursuing contact with them.

I am working on undoing this toxic thinking so I could let FOO go for good and slip peacefully into NC.

Hope it helps, take care.

[Pinkos]

Thanks for the welcome a while ago on the welcome board. Since then, there has been a little contact - just one phone call where father talked about his medical issues and mother was in the background dictating what he should say - a common scenario. Other than that, a couple of Whatsapp messages.
The problem is, my partner is deeply upset with the contact. He is very shaken because of what we went through with them and the level of abuse that occured. With good reason, he is extremely concerned with my well-being, considering how unwell it made me several years ago.

I really don't know how to handle this. He is very anxious and I've tried to reassure him that the door hasn't been thrown wide open. I am very wary.  I'm not comfortable and I have no trust in them.  Probably why I should be asking myself what I am doing being in contact, as minimal as it is. 

I hate seeing my partner suffer so much though.  It has just brought everything back to him and I feel responsible, yet also in the middle.

Merrygoround-it is a very good idea to journal about the reason you made a crack in that door. Why letting them in even if it's just a little? I am sure there are good reasons and you knowing them will make a world of difference.

There is a video by Jerry Wise where he asks the viewer to journal on the advantages and benefits of staying in contact with their abusive parents.

What do we get from them, what makes contact with them appealing? I did that and discovered that I was deeply afraid of the feeling of being 'an orphan', loneliness is frowned upon in our family. You are made to feel like a loser if you have no relationship/no friends.
So the feeling is deeply ingrained, it's not my feeling. It made so much sense to be afraid of feeling like a loser/shameful/broken beyond repair without my family-which led to me pursuing contact with them.

I am working on undoing this toxic thinking so I could let FOO go for good and slip peacefully into NC.

Hope it helps, take care.

Regarding the bolded, I never really thought of it so succintly the way you put it but this part really resonates with me. That feeling of being a pathetic loser is hard to shake. But it occurs to me that even when I was still in contact with them, they went out of their way to make me feel like an outcast, a loser. By excluding me. By their casual and indifferent response to me. Like I was just so "uncool" and someone to be tolerated. So it's strange because I've always had this feeling of being a social loser. And now I sometimes wonder to what extent I have internalized it and to what extent it's impacting how I relate to others. Because I feel like that kind of self-concept is probably easy to read by others. I honestly sometimes wonder why I feel like that around others, co-workers, neighbors, acquaintances etc. Is it all in my head or am I projecting that self-image and being treated accordingly? I don't know if this makes sense.

[olivegirl]

The self concept of feeling uncool, pathetic, outcast, loser is one that I definitely internalized.

For me, even very low contact with my toxic parents has me feeling very unsafe.

I tried very hard utilizing firm boundaries but my parents are just far too abusive. 

I found VVVLC to be actually more draining!

For the longest time, I desperately tried to "forgive and move on" with some boundaries because I wanted to have grandparents for my kids. 

My teenage children finally informed me that they dreaded the visits because my parents were very aggressive and there is too much tension when they are around.

I was stuck on the fear of being judged by others and that it was proof that there is something wrong with me.

The more that I learn about people pleasing as a trauma response, the more compassionate I am with myself.

[JenniferSmith]

I was deeply afraid of the feeling of being 'an orphan', loneliness is frowned upon in our family. You are made to feel like a loser if you have no relationship/no friends.
So the feeling is deeply ingrained, it's not my feeling. It made so much sense to be afraid of feeling like a loser/shameful/broken beyond repair without my family-which led to me pursuing contact with them.

I think this sense of "being a loser" due to being lonely/isolated goes beyond our individual families, I think it is deeply embedded in human nature.  Humans are wired to connect and bond with others.  We are a very social species, and the need to belong, to be part of a group, is very, very strong.

Notice what happens on the news anytime there is a mass shooting. One of the very first things you start hearing about the shooter is "he was a loner, he was isolated, he didn't have any friends."   

I think it scares us when someone is off to the side, not part of a group. It makes us wonder - should we fear them? Will they harm us? Do they have something wrong with them?  These are very primal feelings, not always conscious, and permeates our society. I'm not sure if there are any human societies where this is not a concern. It would be interesting to hear from an anthropologist about that.

[mary_poppins]

Notice what happens on the news anytime there is a mass shooting. One of the very first things you start hearing about the shooter is "he was a loner, he was isolated, he didn't have any friends."   

I think it scares us when someone is off to the side, not part of a group. It makes us wonder - should we fear them? Will they harm us? Do they have something wrong with them?  These are very primal feelings, not always conscious, and permeates our society. I'm not sure if there are any human societies where this is not a concern. It would be interesting to hear from an anthropologist about that.

Yes, I believe some parts in India (maybe Hymalaya) revere people who live alone and meditate all day. I looked this up and found some 'saints'/yogis who never had relationships and lived to commune with the Consciousness/God. They had thousands of followers and worshippers.
I think we are deeply brainwashed by the Western society to believe loneliness is a flaw and one should not dare live/be alone.

I also want to understand what made Western people believe this. It is just a belief, a toxic one.

[Granny May]

I do not see any meaningful relationship going forward with my parents, outside of pretty meaningless, short conversations where I grey rock.   I suppose the question therefore is what is the point in contact with them if it isn't with a deeper meaning or connection.

I'm really sorry for you original experience, and now for the confusion and doubt that you're experiencing.  I know it's hard.  There's always the strong feeling that we're supposed to be in contact with our parents, but whoever wrote that rule was probably blissfully aware of PDs.  My mother is 87, still going strong, and I have spent so much time wishing that I'd gone NC years ago.  She hasn't changed, she will never change.  I'd say your parents will never change.  Can you perhaps ask yourself why you feel a need to be in contact with them?  Is your primary relationship with your partner 'enough'?  Your primary relationship certainly sounds like a very loving and caring one.  I hope you can sort things through and decide what your future will hold without too much more turmoil.

[donutmoonpanda]

Ever since I went NC, I use my partner as a way to "wake myself up." I need it sometimes. I need someone to remind me of the pain and abuse. It's not that I forget about what has transpired between my parents and me, but I am so accustomed to the hurt that I am numb to it. I sleepwalk through it. My partner helps me stay true to myself. He helps me stay on my own side, stay on the side of the little girl that my parents abused and neglected, she has to be the priority now. It's a way to ground myself in what's real, outside of the awful family dynamic.