Sure he likes things to be screwed up

[p123]

I used to try and talk him round for things like this but now my answer is always "suit yourself".

Last night it was his newpaper delivery. He cancelled it (to be fair they were unreliable). I offered to find an alternative. "No I'll leave it". Then 5 minutes later "I'll miss my newspaper". So I offered again "No". OK Suit yourself.

I get it ALL THE TIME. He'll moan I'll offer to help and he'll say no.

His flat is now probably border line unfit to live in. Its filthy, the furntiure is falling to bits, the carpet is threadbare. Again, I've offered to sort it out - nope. Of course, a big thing with is the thought of spending money......

Sure hes not the only one like this? I guess solution is to ignore and let him crack on with it?

[NarcKiddo]

Hey, p123. Not seen you around recently. Have you been on holiday?

I think the moaning could be to make you offer to help. Then he knows he has your attention, and you are not the one in a position to say "no" to him. He can instead say "no" to you. It could in his mind be payback for when he says you are not to go on holiday or whatever, and you say "no" to him. Some sort of power play.

If the flat really is unfit to live in then I guess you could threaten to/actually refer the matter to social services?

What do you think would happen if you did indeed ignore everything and let him crack on? How would you feel about that?

[Sneezy]

I think your dad wants 1. your attention, 2. something to complain about, 3. something to argue with you about, and 4. something to stew about over time ("I have a neglectful son and no newspaper, woe is me").

My mom is much the same.  She got a new prescription (which actually turned out to be something she has had in the past).  She read all the info that came with it and then proceeded to call me because she was afraid of the potential side effects.  She sounded pretty upset in her phone message, which is one way she gets me to call her back.  So she got my attention.  Then she complained for quite some time.  I told her she needs to take something to address her medical issue, so then we got into an argument.  And then she stewed about it for a bit and left me several more whiny, distraught phone messages.  Your dad and my mom are singing out of the same hymnal.   

You have offered to help, twice, and your dad has declined.  I'd say it's time to ignore this particular complaint and let him crack on, as you say.  I am certain he will come up with a new complaint soon.  That's how he is.

[Cat of the Canals]

There's an old psychology book called Games People Play by Eric Berne. We all play various "games" with each other, but PDs seem to make it a sport. And a common favorite seems to be the "Yes, but..." game.

Person 1 presents a problem. "Gee I miss my newspaper."
Person 2 offers a solution. "There are other delivery services available, I'm sure."
Person 1 comes up with a "reason" why that solution can't be done. "Yes, but that'll be too expensive."
Person 2 offers an alternate solution. "There are online subscriptions for less money."
Person 1 has yet another excuse for why it won't work. "Yes, but I don't know how to do any of that!"
And on and on, repeating until, like you, Person 2 stops offering solutions.

And I think Sneezy nailed why they play/what they get out of it. They love the feeling of you "worrying" over them and their problem. And they also feel a sense of triumph when you fail to solve the problem, because it proves what a terrible, inextricable position they're in.

[p123]

Hey, p123. Not seen you around recently. Have you been on holiday?

I think the moaning could be to make you offer to help. Then he knows he has your attention, and you are not the one in a position to say "no" to him. He can instead say "no" to you. It could in his mind be payback for when he says you are not to go on holiday or whatever, and you say "no" to him. Some sort of power play.

If the flat really is unfit to live in then I guess you could threaten to/actually refer the matter to social services?

What do you think would happen if you did indeed ignore everything and let him crack on? How would you feel about that?

Yeh  been away for 3 weeks to Florida in Aug/Sep.

Is it unfit? Hmmm its borderline. Its not nice to be honest.

To be honest, he won't listen to a word I say. I can stress myself about and nothing will change or I can ignore him and nothing will change.

[p123]

I think your dad wants 1. your attention, 2. something to complain about, 3. something to argue with you about, and 4. something to stew about over time ("I have a neglectful son and no newspaper, woe is me").

My mom is much the same.  She got a new prescription (which actually turned out to be something she has had in the past).  She read all the info that came with it and then proceeded to call me because she was afraid of the potential side effects.  She sounded pretty upset in her phone message, which is one way she gets me to call her back.  So she got my attention.  Then she complained for quite some time.  I told her she needs to take something to address her medical issue, so then we got into an argument.  And then she stewed about it for a bit and left me several more whiny, distraught phone messages.  Your dad and my mom are singing out of the same hymnal.   

You have offered to help, twice, and your dad has declined.  I'd say it's time to ignore this particular complaint and let him crack on, as you say.  I am certain he will come up with a new complaint soon.  That's how he is.

yep very similar - my dad also reads ALL  the side effects for new prescriptions.....

[p123]

There's an old psychology book called Games People Play by Eric Berne. We all play various "games" with each other, but PDs seem to make it a sport. And a common favorite seems to be the "Yes, but..." game.

Person 1 presents a problem. "Gee I miss my newspaper."
Person 2 offers a solution. "There are other delivery services available, I'm sure."
Person 1 comes up with a "reason" why that solution can't be done. "Yes, but that'll be too expensive."
Person 2 offers an alternate solution. "There are online subscriptions for less money."
Person 1 has yet another excuse for why it won't work. "Yes, but I don't know how to do any of that!"
And on and on, repeating until, like you, Person 2 stops offering solutions.

And I think Sneezy nailed why they play/what they get out of it. They love the feeling of you "worrying" over them and their problem. And they also feel a sense of triumph when you fail to solve the problem, because it proves what a terrible, inextricable position they're in.

Do you know what that is spot on - like an exact conversation!!!!

Oh yes Dad is convinced hes the worse off in the world. Part of this is because he wont accept anything like this

[p123]

Yeh this is continuing. I've given up now telling him that if he forces himself on people, or tries to guilt trip them he will just push them away....

If you remember, his cousin, a few years younger, basically phoned me and told me enough is enough. I told Dad this but all I get is "woe is me" and he STILL hasnt stopped treating his cousin like crap.
Dad likes the drama, likes things being screwed up then likes to be "rescued"

[p123]

Geez - he just does not quit.

"Can you call and make an appt for me for the nurse to come?"
"I can't hear very well on the phone".

It honestly must exceed 50 times I've told him to get his hearing aid sorted. In the UK, hes got an NHS one - its just a basic one. Hes got £1000s in the bank pay for a decent one privately but no.

I honestly cannot fathom why you'd make life difficult for yourself and have money in the bank.

[moglow]

Attention - He wants your attention and entertainment. He wants to be taken care of and catered to. That's all he sees, all he hears, all he wants. He is the center of his world and so must you be. Who else could possibly be more important?? He's not making life difficult for himself - you're there to sort it.
I guarandamntee if you didn't answer/return the calls he'd either figure it out or let it go. His needs are directly proportional to the amount of effort it takes to provide them.  In short: he does it because he can.

[lkdrymom]

Moglow is exactly right.  This is his source of entertainment.  My father was the same way.  I'd fix his problem then he tell me it wasn't fixed...or was I sure I fixed it?  Then he'd have to 'find something else for me to do".  They are bored and don't know how to entertain themselves.

[p123]

Yeh I'm sure you're right. Its just crazy though....

Why on earth suffer just to do this?

[Sneezy]

I honestly cannot fathom why you'd make life difficult for yourself and have money in the bank.

Because if your dad makes life less difficult for himself, for example by buying a good hearing aid, he also makes life less difficult for you.  And where's the fun in that?  Seriously, p123, your dad *has* to make his life as difficult as possible because how else will he know if you value him over all others?  He needs these difficulties in his life so that he can test you and see how much you are willing to do for him.  His self-worth is tied to seeing how high he can make you jump, how much you are willing to sacrifice for him, and how all your efforts on his behalf make him appear to be the winner (of whatever ridiculous games are going on in his head).

I can't remember who told me this recently, but someone on this forum told me that the only way to win is not to play.  Very, very hard to do, but probably essential to save your own sanity.

[Psuedonym]

Hey p123!

Boy does that sound familiar. I think you might be giving your dad too much credit that he actually can't hear people. I wonder how it is that he can hear you on the phone?  I had several very similar calls with uPDm (aka Negatron) that went like this:

N: (Eeyore voice) I need you to call the pharmacy for me because I'm so sick and I've lost my voice.
Me: And yet...I can hear you just fine.
N: (yelling now) Don't you get nasty with me!!!  (a favorite retort to logical statements) All I asked you to do was call the pharmacy for me because I'm so sick!
Me: Can still hear you just fine.

I believe at that point she hung up...and called the pharmacy. As others like Sneezy have said, this isn't about depriving himself of anything. It's about seeing how many hoops he can make you jump through because that is satisfying to him.

[Cat of the Canals]

It's about seeing how many hoops he can make you jump through because that is satisfying to him.

And keeping the hoops "in play" (like complaining about his hearing but refusing to get a hearing aid) keeps the game going indefinitely. After all, if he got a hearing aid, one of his favorite excuses would be off the table. Of course, he'd find something else I'm sure, but he's not going to give up such a solid gold Woe Is Me nugget without a fight.

[p123]

It's about seeing how many hoops he can make you jump through because that is satisfying to him.

And keeping the hoops "in play" (like complaining about his hearing but refusing to get a hearing aid) keeps the game going indefinitely. After all, if he got a hearing aid, one of his favorite excuses would be off the table. Of course, he'd find something else I'm sure, but he's not going to give up such a solid gold Woe Is Me nugget without a fight.

Do you what you're all dead right.

Hes the same with his mobility scooter. Won't use it unless someone else is with him because "he hasnt got confidence".
He lives literally 200 yard from the town where he lives - there are literally hundreds of old people on these in the daytime around the shops. But no Dad has got to be different.

Sometimes I just feel like shouting JUST GET ON WITH IT AND STOP MOANING

[Dragonfly]

   I am running into similar situations with my mom. It's the same situation in her apartment...threadbare carpet in places..I did a lot in there while on leave after her surgery...but now i am back to work. (Only family member left)
   I AM working on getting social services going. The worker came out last week. It takes a couple of months- but at least I have a TINY  bit of hope now that things will get moving in the right direction- if she meets the financial thresholds.
   Today she blamed me that i through out a bag of junk mail and things that had her name on it...now she is getting a lot of spam calls. It went into our garbage truck. (Not her dumpster). It was ALL over the floor of her apartment- i got rid of it while she was in the hospital. No matter the situation-you can't be right or good enough...not for long anyway. (The only way to win is not to play -WarGames) 
   Thank you all- reading your post and the replies helped me tonight. Hang in there!

[Boat Babe]

There's an old psychology book called Games People Play by Eric Berne. We all play various "games" with each other, but PDs seem to make it a sport. And a common favorite seems to be the "Yes, but..." game.

Person 1 presents a problem. "Gee I miss my newspaper."
Person 2 offers a solution. "There are other delivery services available, I'm sure."
Person 1 comes up with a "reason" why that solution can't be done. "Yes, but that'll be too expensive."
Person 2 offers an alternate solution. "There are online subscriptions for less money."
Person 1 has yet another excuse for why it won't work. "Yes, but I don't know how to do any of that!"
And on and on, repeating until, like you, Person 2 stops offering solutions.

And I think Sneezy nailed why they play/what they get out of it. They love the feeling of you "worrying" over them and their problem. And they also feel a sense of triumph when you fail to solve the problem, because it proves what a terrible, inextricable position they're in.

So so true. Very recent example that I may have mentioned in past posts.  Speaking to waif uBPDmum on the phone. She tells me that she just sits at home and states at the wall. I again remind her that there is a senior citizen club literally over the road from her. They offer a really wide range of activities that cater for all levels of accessibility and interests. I look at what's on offer and think "mmm. I'd do that" it's cheap as it's subsidized. Mum immediately gets angry that I should once again suggest this insane solution to her boredom and loneliness. First objection is it's too expensive. It isn't and I offer to pay for anything she fancied doing. She moves to second objection, the killer one "There's nothing that interests me"  she wails.  I am gonna start using "Suit yourself".   Hope that helps P123.

[Psuedonym]

Boat Babe,

I literally had exactly the same conversation on the same subject with uPDM. They really get angry when you offer a solution to their unending misery that doesn't involve you dropping everything and running over, don't they? They truly all come from the same mold. 

[p123]

   I am running into similar situations with my mom. It's the same situation in her apartment...threadbare carpet in places..I did a lot in there while on leave after her surgery...but now i am back to work. (Only family member left)
   I AM working on getting social services going. The worker came out last week. It takes a couple of months- but at least I have a TINY  bit of hope now that things will get moving in the right direction- if she meets the financial thresholds.
   Today she blamed me that i through out a bag of junk mail and things that had her name on it...now she is getting a lot of spam calls. It went into our garbage truck. (Not her dumpster). It was ALL over the floor of her apartment- i got rid of it while she was in the hospital. No matter the situation-you can't be right or good enough...not for long anyway. (The only way to win is not to play -WarGames) 
   Thank you all- reading your post and the replies helped me tonight. Hang in there!

Yeh been going on for years with me. I don't mind helping him at all but I've got my own family/job etc. When he pushes back it just makes it more time consuming for me.

Sometimes I just think "well its your choice to struggle"