Couples therapy failed

[Helpless-in-seattle]

This was our third go at couples therapy. H did not like the other two therapists, and honestly, he completely dominanted the sessions, so I was not keen on them either.

The latest therapist asked for individual sessions after he had been seeing us for a few weeks. He opened my session by basically saying he got the impression I didnt feel safe emotionally. He basically told me to cut and run, said I have to look at what behaviour is in front of me and make my decision about the relationship based on that, not what he was like, or if he might change. That I need to think of our kid too.  He also said I would need to set strong boundaries and from what he has seen I would need to be strong in holding them as H will push back against them.

It's so scary and overwhelming to be so seen by this therpaist so quickly. It's scary because it means it isn't all in my head and that I really need to make some big decisions soon. I can't keep treading water hoping it gets better (if anything it is getting worse)

[bat123]

Hi, Helpless!  I think this is a pretty common outcome.  Unfortunately, couples therapy is only effective if you're dealing with two mostly healthy people, who are able to look within at the issues they each bring to the relationship.  If one person has a PD, they're unlikely to be able to do the work required.  The only good outcome of my latest go round in couples therapy (we've done it multiple times with multiple therapists over the years) is that my uNPD husband agreed to my suggestion (backed by our therapist) to seek individual therapy.  Not sure if it will be effective or not, but worth a shot.  In the meantime I'm in individual therapy myself, and it's honestly the only way I'm going to be able improve my situation, I think.  Good for you that you had a therapist willing to take you aside.  Many won't do that.

[moglow]

Bless you - I know that has to sting. That doesn't mean it's a fail - I see it as a win, to be honest. H showed himself and they saw what you've been seeing. Hard as it is to hear, you needed that validation, not just some yes man telling you what you want to hear. It does help having outside unbiased eyes on it.

You don't have to do anything right this minute. Sit with it. Think it through. Think of what you want and what's attainable, what's best for you and your kidling, and plan accordingly.

But first, breathe. Sit quietly and breathe through the emotions. You don't have to discuss anything with anyone until you are ready and able. That may take a bit of time.

[Srcyu]

That was a heavy load for the therapist to drop on you. I imagine it will cause massive problems if your H gets to hear about it.
What will the therapist say to him, I wonder?

I didn't know therapists were allowed to be so direct.

The water you are treading is serving it's purpose by keeping you afloat. Please don't let a comparative stranger hurry you into making huge decisions.

[notrightinthehead]

This happened to me too a long time ago. And I changed therapists because I wasn't ready to hear what he was saying even though in my heart I knew it was true. And it confirmed my fears and suspicions. But I hoped I was wrong. And not ready to leave.
It's horrible to know what would be the right thing to do, yet be too scared to be able to do it. The best you can do for now is to strengthen yourself. Get your own therapy. Get a support network. Take baby steps to re-gaining self confidence, self worth, independence.  Work on having options. Use the strategies from the Toolbox.  Keep on working on yourself.

[SonofThunder]

Bless you - I know that has to sting. That doesn't mean it's a fail - I see it as a win, to be honest. H showed himself and they saw what you've been seeing. Hard as it is to hear, you needed that validation, not just some yes man telling you what you want to hear. It does help having outside unbiased eyes on it.

You don't have to do anything right this minute. Sit with it. Think it through. Think of what you want and what's attainable, what's best for you and your kidling, and plan accordingly.

But first, breathe. Sit quietly and breathe through the emotions. You don't have to discuss anything with anyone until you are ready and able. That may take a bit of time.

+1 

SoT

[Kat54]

We also went to couples therapy. Tried a couple of them. The psychologist could clearly see my ex was dominating the conversation and trying hard to win this Dr over. And she wasn't biting. She asked to see us individually and she said she could see I had no voice and how over bearing my ex was in controlling the situation.

He stopped seeing the therapist and said she was crazy, we go together or not at all. The therapist only said to me he's a narcissist and you can't repair a marriage with someone who has very deep issues. So as you also felt maybe you are the crazy one, it's very validating when you discover you aren't.

They see these people all the time so I'm sure what the therapist is telling you is their best advice. Im sorry this is hard and it's very scary.
I continued seeing her because it gave me finally after two years the strength to leave.

[downwiththefog]

The latest therapist asked for individual sessions after he had been seeing us for a few weeks. He opened my session by basically saying he got the impression I didnt feel safe emotionally. He basically told me to cut and run, said I have to look at what behaviour is in front of me and make my decision about the relationship based on that, not what he was like, or if he might change. That I need to think of our kid too.  He also said I would need to set strong boundaries and from what he has seen I would need to be strong in holding them as H will push back against them.

The hard truth may be hard to digest but I think it's very positive that T was straightforward and that the issues you're seeing in private could be exposed and so you can feel validated.
If you're not in danger you can start slowly preparing yourself for a different future than one you may have imagined but which will be healthier in the end.

I wish you all the best.

[Whoops]

Good for that therapist!!  I'd stick with him if you can! He is smart and caring.

Our sixth or seventh marriage therapist said that to me also! Told me h was very narcissistic, was extremely unlikely to ever change, and that I was just going to keep getting emotionally harmed, after h stormed out when she was trying to tell him that I was right that his behavior was endangering our very ill child. I didn't want to hear it, partly because I didn't want to divorce and have him get shared custody-- I could protect my child better while married- and partly because I just loved h. That therapist also told me the physical effects of living with frequent intense conflict.  4 years on, h left me suddenly after a 34-year marriage and 3 kids fora childless, much much younger sporty person. I wish now I had acted on what the therapist told me, as my brain knew she was right. I now feel like the tail of the scorpion-- that the therapist told me was a scorpion -- finally swung up and hit me.

I share this because sometimes if we don't leave when we know we are being harmed, the narcissist will move on to hurt us even worse. I am not commenting on speed of acting-- oh how I know how hard it is to go-- but just sharing my cautionary tale about sticking my head in the sand about my spouse's character.

I find it interesting that for us, none of the other marriage therapists identified this huge issue. He did get worse over time, but surely some of them noticed that I was afraid to really say what I felt or was concerned about, i.e. his anger and control? The last therapist had the best training and reputation of the lot. I hope this means there are discussions happening in the world of marriage therapists about how to respond when you can see one of the spouses is highly narcissistic and that the other spouse is getting emotionally destroyed.

[Whoops]

Good for that therapist!!  I'd stick with him if you can! He is smart and caring.

Our sixth or seventh marriage therapist said that to me also! Told me h was very narcissistic, was extremely unlikely to ever change, and that I was just going to keep getting emotionally harmed, after h stormed out when she was trying to tell him that I was right that his behavior was endangering our very ill child. I didn't want to hear it, partly because I didn't want to divorce and have him get shared custody-- I could protect my child better while married- and partly because I just loved h. That therapist also told me the physical effects of living with frequent intense conflict.  4 years on, h left me suddenly after a 34-year marriage and 3 kids fora childless, much much younger sporty person. I wish now I had acted on what the therapist told me, as my brain knew she was right. I now feel like the tail of the scorpion-- that the therapist told me was a scorpion -- finally swung up and hit me.

I share this because sometimes if we don't leave when we know we are being harmed, the narcissist will move on to hurt us even worse. I am not commenting on speed of acting-- oh how I know how hard it is to go-- but just sharing my cautionary tale about sticking my head in the sand about my spouse's character.

I find it interesting that for us, none of the other marriage therapists identified this huge issue. He did get worse over time, but surely some of them noticed that I was afraid to really say what I felt or was concerned about, i.e. his anger and control? The last therapist had the best training and reputation of the lot. I hope this means there are discussions happening in the world of marriage therapists about how to respond when you can see one of the spouses is highly narcissistic and that the other spouse is getting emotionally destroyed.

[Lookin 2 B Free]

I'm so sorry for the pain and stress this is causing you, Helpless. It is a shock when we start seeing things for what they are.  My PDex and I also sought marriage counseling 3 times.  All I wanted, and wanted with everything in me, was to find a way to make this work.   I felt it just couldn't be hopeless - there had to be a way.

In our case 2 of the 3 T's let me know we were working with a personality disorder here and that he needed intensive individual therapy (which he didn't want).  All 3 had gotten to know us well and I'd had time to build trust in them.  None of them felt there was any real chance of things getting better.

I think you've gotten some good advice here.  We don't process this kind of shock in a day.  See what it is that would support and nurture you through this, starting with where you're at right now, the overwhelm and fear.   Pause, breathe, reach out, give yourself lots of self care.  Then, as NotRight says, you can begin to strengthen yourself and move in the direction you need.

Let us know how you're doing.  You have our support.   

[1footouttadefog]

Once a PD checks out of the relationship they seldom check back in.

Then tend to wait for the other spouse to end it.  The non pd tends to think they have to have something like cut and dry evidence of adultery or something to divorse. 

All you have to ha e is a failed marriage that meets your description of a failed marriage. 

If you are unsafe and not ready for divorse, separation might be an option. 

I encourage you to do what is necessary to be safe. 

If you are not in immediate risk or harm, then take your time and decide what the next steps are.