Is it really okay for me to not call?

[Lookin 2 B Free]

There are certain situations (holidays, special occasions) when I'm expected to reach out to FOO.  That's been my job in my FOO caretaker role forever.  To act as if nothing bad ever happened and keep up some pretense of normality. Smooth it over and never acknowledge the bullying, ostracizing and abuse.  Like I owe them that.  Why would I?

What message am I giving myself if I agree I owe them that?  The message that I deserved that treatment and that their wants are more important than my own needs.  That they have the right to determine what my obligations are to them and if I don't comply, I am in the wrong and deserve their outrage and punishment.  I grew up believing that.  Do I still?

Why is it so hard, in the face of any PD's indignation, for me to keep my ground around believing that their reactions are really about them and not me?   It's almost like I regress to being a child and whatever PD -- boss, spouse, other family, -- becomes a stand-in for the hateful, spiteful parent ... who is automatically right in a child's eyes, and I am wrong.  I feel that in my bones, no matter that the demand is outrageous and how much "adult" logic I bring to it -- I feel deep down I have transgressed.

How do I change my emotional reactions to PD's?  So far, all I've come up with is avoiding them when possible and screwing up my courage as much as I can to not comply with my old role.  It's been very gradual progress when what I want is to throw off the yoke.  Has anyone succeeded in overthrowing such a deep seated emotional pattern?.

[foobarred]

How do I change my emotional reaction to PD's?... Has anyone succeeded in overthrowing such a deep seated emotional pattern?

I'm not sure those reactions ever go away. That was one of the deciding factors in my going NC - no matter how many boundaries I set and how much I limited contact, I always ended up upset and she always ended up clawing for more.  I decided the *only* way for me to the end the drama was to cut it off completely. It was a difficult decision and I still grieve the necessity of it, but from the point of view of my recovery, it's been a godsend.

But that point wasn't arrived at instantaneously. It was based on years of studying PDs and gradually realizing the exact nature of our relationship.  Once I figured out how their minds worked, I saw how they never loved me *for* me, just the roles I could play for them.  And then the obligation broke and leaving became much easier.

[Lookin 2 B Free]

You're right, foobarred.  I went NC with my PDex almost 3 yrs ago, and all the dysfunction of that was instantly gone.  They can't make a demand or punish you if they're totally out of your life.

I guess with most of my FOO I've gone LC and am gradually lowering even that.  It makes me feel mean even though I wish them no harm.  If I could snap my fingers and give them a fabulous life, I would, including my ex.  I'd just want their fabulous life to take place away from me! 👉

Happy Halloween, everyone.                     . . . Free

[Srcyu]

I used to feel guilt and apprehension and it kept me in the fawn mode, as in sucking it all up just to keep the peace.
I went no contact finally with my mother - my father already being deceased. The siblings sided with her and off they all went.
That solved the problem, basically. It really does seem to be the only way out.

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi Lookin 2 B Free,

I'm not sure this will apply to what you're feeling or not.

No one is built / designed to feel good after an incident of verbal or emotional abuse. So if these obligatory phone calls provide these people with an opportunity to berate you or criticize you in some way, then it is going to be very hard to detach your 'logical view' from how it feels to be treated that way. Because it's very honest to not feel good after such a phone call.

Even once we understand that they have a PD, it doesn't mean we are going to feel 'ok' after hearing them tell us what ever nasty thing they say to us on the phone.

There is that book called "It didn't start with you". And I think that is a brilliant title because it highlights how this is not your fault. The way people in your family behaved, it's not your fault. It's part of something bigger that didn't start with you. I can see in your post that you are putting that distance between yourself and them, and that is a big part of the process in my opinion.

But knowing that, doesn't mean it doesn't hurt. To be part of a family that cannot uphold the basic tenets around respecting others, and true kindness - trust me, it breaks my heart when I remember how alone I am in creating something non-abusive for my own life. Compared to them, I am 'mean', (as you say in your writing that you feel mean).

But am I mean for wanting an end to this terrible way that PD's have of treating me? Clearly not. They think I am mean.

As for these phone calls, If I had to make contact with someone who treats me poorly, I'd set up a lot of self-care around the entire event. I'd have a plan for what to do to help myself before, during and after the phone call. In this way, you are doing something that they probably have no idea how to do - you are taking very good care of yourself.

Trees

[Starboard Song]

How do I change my emotional reactions to PD's?  So far, all I've come up with is avoiding them when possible and screwing up my courage as much as I can to not comply with my old role.  It's been very gradual progress when what I want is to throw off the yoke.  Has anyone succeeded in overthrowing such a deep seated emotional pattern?.

I think of it this way. A toddler can get angry over a confiscated toy, or handful of dirt, and we don't get upset. We don't feel judged and hurt. We don't start explaining ourselves. We are often amused to the point of laughter at a toddler throwing a hideous tantrum.

But when, for instance, our parents or a sibling, or a spouse -- when these people judge us we feel it hard. We credit their judgement. It is only natural to do so. And for most everyone it does no harm. But PD person's judgement is worse than random: it isn't even a fair coin. So we have to let the intellectual into the room, and kick out that lizard brain emotional reaction that credits their error.

We very briefly learnd to do that. But I can't claim long-term success, because our establishment of boundaries and instant reform of the relationship lead very quickly to a crisis and NC -- seven years ago.

I'll tell you this: I was raised by two of the finest people to have walked the earth. I feel safe in social situations that are plainly toxic and even hazardous. My wife feels endangered in even the safest social situations. The task is to feel safe. I believe I feel safe because my esteem of myself rarely is even dinged in the slightest by judgements that are not politely stated by an expert I trust. If someone mocks me in a business meeting, I judge that person lower and am bemused, frankly, by their lack of professionalism. My wife says she judges herself by her ability to please others, so all negative judgements are valid attacks.

So how do you change, since you can't go back in time and start over? I don't know the tactics, exactly. But the resources that have helped my wife the most are in the first line of my signature. They are about healing and personal peace. I recommend them all. Particularly Radical Acceptance.

Good strength to you.

[Lookin 2 B Free]

Thank you, everyone.  I just realized something reading all of your posts.

It is so very hard for me to "give up" on someone ... to "throw them away."  This has always been true.  I believe it's because I still carry the childlike hurt from having been "thrown away" and ostracized by the very people who were supposed to love and care for me the most as a child.  I don't ever want to be the cause of that kind of hurt.  When I see someone feeling cast aside, it is very painful for me.  It triggers those felt memories from childhood.  Almost like what I'm doing to them, I'm doing to myself at the same time.

More grist for the mill.    Sigh.

[MarieIsFree]

"When I see someone feeling cast aside, it is very painful for me.  It triggers those felt memories from childhood.  Almost like what I'm doing to them, I'm doing to myself at the same time."



I absolutely relate to this... my PD father, from whom I've been NC since he and his PD wife acted terribly (it was all about them, of course) after my brother died, contacted me out of the blue three weeks ago and I've been immersed in a few weeks of agonizing, triggering, back-and-forth emails rehashing everything that was, of course, not at all his fault... And why do I subject myself to this? Because it feels like my obligation. Because I can't stand seeing his agony. Because his needs and his suffering remain more important than mine.

I'm now trying to summon the courage to declare NC again, or maybe I'll just stay silent. It is incredibly painful but I am slowly attempting to put myself first... Reading this helped (it's from the article You Carry the Cure In Your Own Heart, pinned to the top of the Dealing with PD Parents board): "The costs of emotional abuse cannot be measured by visible scars, but each victim loses some percentage of capacity. And that capacity remains lost so long as the victim is stuck in the cycle of "understanding" and "forgiveness." The abuser has no "right" to forgiveness—such blessings can only be earned."

The holidays are really hard. Sending you strength.