Are you always the friend who reaches out first

[Iamenoughmary]

I am, and I'm tired of it. They say things like "don't take so long next time"  or "hope we can talk soon" by another so called friend....and that never happens.  I called my friend after not hearing and a long period of time. At the end she said the first quote above.  Hummm I thought, why does she have the right to say that when she never calls and never ever texts unless I do first. 

I find myself saying to her out of some sort of odd obligation that we will get out shopping soon. WHAT Why did I say that!!  They never make any attempts to go out.

I have been told that I think differently than most people. I guess that means they don't care as much as I do.  I over analyze that's for sure.  Do any of you have these types of friends where you are always first to make contact?  I'm thinking these really aren't best friends.  I think making an effort works two ways.

This could be just me and my personality being so different (introvert)  I'm not sure?  I believe in being kind.

[Starboard Song]

I know others who feel this happens to them.

I suspect it is a complex set of dynamics. I feel like I invite as often as I am invited, and that others do as much for me as I do for them. My wife feels -- I believe incorrectly -- that she does all the lifting in her relationships outside the home. And I guess there are people who who say they usually receive invites rather than issue them.

I know it is deeply frustrating, but I think you right: it is just some complexity in these particular relationships. I encourage you to not give up on these relationships, but to sponsor others. You can find friends who are more engaged. One big lead is finding friends with whom you share more than "being friends." I make music with my music friends. I fish with my fishing friends. Well-established friends can become "just do stuff" friends, but that is a very special position.

Good strength to you!

[Jolie40]

yes!
one friend I made @work & we would go to gym together
then she married first & had kids
I was the one to always call & keep contact
then I married & became a parent
STILL I was always the one to call, don't think she ever called me

she stopped sending Christmas cards at one point but I still send her cards
in fact several friends have given up on sending Christmas cards but I still send to them
not ready to stop sending cards yet
I send photo cards of my kid

[notrightinthehead]

I am one of those people too. About a year ago I felt so tired of that and I also wondered if I was imposing on people. So I forced myself to suggest getting together once and then wait for the other party to reciprocate.  With some people I am still waiting. I tell myself that I respect their frequency of contact.  Their disinterest hurts a little, but I would also feel hurt by contacting them again and them agreeing to meet up when it suits them.
I have since met two people who contact me as frequently as I contact them, to my big surprise. I felt almost suspicious that something was wrong with them,  as they showed so much interest in me. So subconsciously I might have given off a vibe to keep open and friendly people at bay?  And now since I no longer put any effort in people who do not reciprocate, I seem to be open for people who do. 

[Amy-Rose]

I relate to this so much. A group of high school friends looked for me for years, found me, spoke to me once then I never heard from them again. I got so tired of the same phrases you hear and I'd always think 'a phone works both ways' so I just stopped calling/texting/messaging and it's been 2 years and heard from not one of my "friends". I don't know what's worse. Having to chase them or realising they obviously don't care much. I don't know if I'd rather chase them just to have someone to talk to occasionally or if I'm better off without them all.

I'm very introverted and rarely get lonely or need people so I think I'd rather wait for better people to come along. The only friend that did chase me, chased me only when she wanted something.

It's not always you, sometimes it's other people who are a bit entitled.

[countrygirl]

Hi neverenoughmary,

I decided not to be the one to always reach out.  As a result, most of the people who are in my life are people who are willing to make some effort.  I even did this with a first cousin, when I realized I was always the one reaching out to her.  She would always say she would call me, but she seldom did.  She always seemed happy when she heard from me, would say she loved me, but then I heard nothing.  Because she's one of my few remaining family members. I  might cave and give her a call something this holiday season, but even thinking about doing so makes me feel a bit down.  (Even though I know she'll be warm and we'll have a good conversation.)   

Years ago, I became friends with someone who always wanted to get together, seemed to enjoy talking with me, suggested doing things, but NEVER was the one to call,  After a couple of years, I mentioned this to a mutual friend, and discovered this was what this woman did with everyone.  I said that I didn't like it, and the mutual friend said, "None of us do."   Finally, I stopped calling, and I NEVER heard from her again.   I don't regret this.   

At any rate, I understand how you're feeling.  I also understand reaching out in kindness, and if you know someone isn't reaching out because they are ill or depressed, or going through a hard time, I would give them a no-ties-attached call; otherwise, I would step back and see if my friends reached out.  If they don't, search for someone who has more interest in keeping in touch.  They are out there!   (And, unfortunately, they can present their own, different problems,  which is why I'm on this forum!)

[treesgrowslowly]

Yep. A lot of people will take advantage of our kindness like this.

When someone doesn't take turns in making plans with you, they are telling you how they see you. They probably don't think about us much, if at all, until we call or contact them. If we don't initiate plans with them, they don't think about us on their own. Notice how often they cast themselves as "so busy".....

I wonder if a lot of people have a divider in their mind that divides relatives from the rest of the people they know. If it is a relative, they might be making plans with them regularly. When it comes to the other people they know (us), they don't think about it.

The sad thing is that most of them don't care about how we feel when we are the ones making all of the plans all the time. Since they don't think about us until we call to make the next plan, it's an easy friendship for them to enjoy. For us, it can be a very hurtful experience after a while. It would be nice if more people knew how to take the lead at least some of the time (ideally half the time) and reach out first.

Trees

[Catothecat]

I've also experienced this way more than I like!  It actually seems to be a common behavior pattern in many people, so when I've encountered this behavior in a friend I try to examine the friendship along with the behavior.  I try not to reflexively make it personal. 

With those friends who seem to want to do things with me or be around me, I suspect they never learned friendship etiquette.  They didn't learn that friendships should be reciprocal.  Instead, they wait on the other person to make the first move because that's the way it's always been for them and they take it for granted.  If I say to them, you can call some time as well, you know!, they tend to act surprised like they aren't even aware they don't do that.  I'm not letting them off the hook because I still don't like the way they treat me, but I understand it's not because they don't like me or want to be around me.  When I'm with them, that becomes obvious.

Of course, there are the other "friends" who just collect people and not only have no idea what constitutes a friendship but don't care, either.  If you go out of their life they quickly find someone to replace you, so in my opinion it's not a loss for either person.  Letting those people go is the healthiest thing you can do for yourself. 

[bloomie]

neverenoughmary - the inconsistent messages and absence of reciprocity in 'friendships' is especially tough for those of us who have experienced toxic, hurtful manipulation like silent treatment or push/pull in relationships to sort through in my experience. This kind of thing can really spin us around and bring unneeded and unwanted stress and self doubt into our lives if we let it.

My two oldest friends initiate connection rarely and suggest an outing even more rarely. I am the 'activator' in the relationships and that is exactly how relationships with these two is going to be. I have come to that conclusion. So, I can choose to reach out when and how I feel like it or let them go. I have freedom in that and I choose the relationships because they are long term and when we are together, the connections are strong and a lot of fun.

But... if I were meeting them for the first time right now, at this point in my healing journey, I would most likely not develop a friendship with either one. I look for a reasonable level of reciprocity in relationships these days and avoid going deeper with those who seem to not have the confidence or interest in making much effort.

I will also say that in the past I accepted so little in my relationships and over performed.  I didn't have a good handle on matching energy and paying attention to red flags. I am growing in that way and taking so much of this waaaaay less personally.

Like Starboard, I find having something in common to share and rally around seems to be a less pressured way for people to make friends these days. I am convince that so many people just have lost a lot of ability to socialize with ease, be reliable and mannerly. There seems to be a general cultural shift toward disconnection and lethargy in relationships that we are also up against.

[feralcat]

Unfortunately, I agree with everything other people say. Whether it's 'friends', or relatives. I've spent so much time googling 'why are some people so flakey?'
It usually says that it's because they see their time as being much more important than yours.
It's so hurtful, especially as Bloomie says, we may be more prone to seeing ourselves as the problem. Not deserving and all that. I've been very guilty in the past of chasing people for attention. Not seeing any of the red flags. Falling over and over for the lovebombing when they want something, after having been ignored for ages.

I think personally that it's a combination. People who don't reciprocate probably DO see themselves as 'so busy' . They seem to have limited self awareness as to the effects of their actions, and will become offended by either being questioned as to why ...or receiving healthy (normal) consequences , such as you no longer jumping to their wants, or no longer running after them..
I also think that , unfortunately due to our upbringing, we attract users. In the Karpmann drama triangle we are often the 'rescuers'. Empathic, caring and genuine.

[treesgrowslowly]

Agreeing very much with everything shared here so far.

I think, as Bloomie writes, that for me as well, it is a learning curve over time. I'm learning how to identify the people who simply like having plans, vs. having some sort of intimacy. If you keep making the effort and meeting up with someone over and over and they don't feel like a good friend, then they are the ones who are preventing the friendship from becoming close / reliable / intimate feeling.

I truly believe that in terms of closeness / being close / intimacy (however we want to name that feeling of being someone's 'good friend')....there are two patterns of behaviour now a days in most people. Some are content with the arrangements they have. They have their friend or their confidante, the person they seek out for fun and giggles and for support in rough times, and no others need apply. Their application centre is closed. There are others who are simply living without intimacy - they don't want it, don't cultivate it in their own lives, and they go off and busy themselves in some other way. Personally, I don't understand those creatures at all!

I do think that sometimes, when I've asked people to meet up and do something, they simply don't know how to say no, so they agree. There I am thinking oh, they want a connection, they want to build out the friendship. But in reality, they just didn't know how to politely decline the invite. OR they were bored (huge issue with a lot of people these days) and said yes because its "something to do".

I agree with Bloomie - not taking any of this personally is going to help a lot. Also working on it over here! 

If you can adjust to this new way people are acting, more power to you (to anyone, I'm speaking generally here). Truly. The world is full of people who are not going to take any of their relationships very seriously. Friendships, and otherwise. But especially friendships. None of us would have trouble finding a roster of 'fair weather friends' who are only there until they don't feel like it anymore.....

I find it very much at odds with what I'm actually seeking in terms of relationships and friendships.

Sometimes I have wondered if having such a 'drive-thru' and 'home delivery' type culture now has made a lot of people so passive that they think friendship should come to them in the same way - ordered, packaged and delivered to them with no effort on their part. 

Trees

[Iamenoughmary]

Thank you so much for all the replies!  So much wisdom and great advice!   I'm going to read through it all a second time. 

I must learn to not take it personal, though I'll never understand  . I have even told two of them that they can text or call also, but they don't, yet I see them on face book liking and commenting all the time.    How much time does it take to send me a small text. Hey though, I'm going to try to reset my mind and not give them as many thoughts as I've always done.  I have tried to do that, and most times fail.

Maybe for me its not understanding more than being hurt by it.  I've always been a "figure it out " person, but does it really matter?  Will my life not go on if they don't text .  I think it just makes me angry. 

I agree it most likely has to do with our upbringing, the favoritism I experienced and some toxic behaviors.  Plus I agree these friends aren't sitting around even thinking like I am  It's time to stop being first and I wont.  Sad though even after I voice it to them they still do it.  I really need to toughen up.

Thank you each for such great replies and input!! 

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi neverenoughmary,

Same. I was "friends" with someone who said they wanted to stay in touch with me. Yet there they were posting on social media every 2 days, and could never bother to text me to have a conversation. Eventually I just realized we are just doing life different.

I can't speak for if others felt like this...but early on in my Out of the FOG  journey I thought that healing would make me more like other people. I spent lots of time waiting for my insides to become like them. So that I could also post on social media for the likes, just like they were doing.

But what I've learned is that healing doesn't turn us into someone who goes for likes and superficial nods to friends. Healing makes us crave a life of authentic emotional freedom. We don't want to deal in "likes" and flaky, confusing behaviours anymore. Been there,  done that.

There will always be folks who come to you with their flaky approach to friendship. The more I've healed, the more I crave the real thing. I do think life is easier for them in a way. They dont invest in a one on one text dialog with you. I really doubt they are having much valuable connection without that one on one time. Maybe for them that is OK. For you it is not.

You want more. And it's OK to be angry. I remember reading that knowing what makes us angry is key to the healing process because it tells us what we value.

Trees

[Iamenoughmary]

Trees, So true is that!   "We don't want to deal in "likes" and flaky confusing behaviors anymore.  That says it all. I am over the flaky stuff! 
I tried FB many times. It was not who I am.  I use it for art and music pages.

I do want "authentic emotional freedom"  Thank you so much!  This is exactly how I feel.

Life most likely is much easier for them. They don't crave one on one friendships. Now that I think about it two of them have numbers into the 500s on FB.  That is not friendship. 

You have helped so much

[Iamenoughmary]

Maybe this is not something I should post but I did not wish my friend, the one who said "don't take so long the next time" a Happy Thanksgiving.  I waited thinking she may text me first .NOT!! I simply refuse to keep going through it. I have made it clear to her about her behavior.  My other friend did send a Happy Thanksgiving message. I was so happy to reply to her wishing her the same.  It just felt good!

feralcat,  so true, we are often the Empathic, caring and genuine ones.  I agree they don't seem to realize the affect they have on others and how their actions hurt. Even when told as in my case she still does the same.  Caring works two ways.

Bloomie, Its so true we do have the freedom to choose. I never understood that until I've been on my healing journey.  I kept letting them  do this. I'm choosing to be very distant esp with one of them.   I'm not one to just cut things off but I do deserve a better connection and caring in return

catothehat. Yes, I think there are those who just "collect" people. That opened my eyes and I see it a lot.  That's sad isn't it!  Letting go is best in that situation. I think my friend is a collector!

countrygirl, I am sure shes not depressed or ill, and this is just who she is.  I suspect she also does it to others. We were friends for a lifetime. Maybe age changes things. I just know I wont reach out. I can be kind if she does.

Amy Rose, I am an introvert too and alone time is fine with me, but a text seems a small thing to do and as an introvert I like texting best. She told me she just doesn't text but then there's the FB comments she does all the time. Go figure..lol!  You were wise to stop texting those friends.

notrightinthe head, I wondered that to , if I was imposing on people.  I'm not sure but I think I just need them to chat with and it seemed like a bother to them.  I plan on just chatting here with many of you who experience the same things

jolie40, I do the same with the cards. I'm not ready either to stop doing that.  You are a caring person

Starboard Song. Yes I think there's many complexities in people and relationships and I'm beginning to see life and people change. I like coming here because everyone understands and gives good advice

[treesgrowslowly]

Trees, So true is that!   "We don't want to deal in "likes" and flaky confusing behaviors anymore.  That says it all. I am over the flaky stuff! 
I tried FB many times. It was not who I am.  I use it for art and music pages.

I do want "authentic emotional freedom"  Thank you so much!  This is exactly how I feel.

Life most likely is much easier for them. They don't crave one on one friendships. Now that I think about it two of them have numbers into the 500s on FB.  That is not friendship. 

You have helped so much

Neverenoughmary,

You have helped me so much as well. This journey is a marathon not a sprint (as they say). Meeting fellow travellers is one of the joys along the path of recovery from narc abuse in my life.

I also use social media for inspiration, not perspiration (i Can't sweat other people's small stuff (people who use social media to get attention for their drama) anymore!!). I use it to see other creatives, what they are up to and sharing about, and book recommendations. I also follow several folks who write really insightful stuff about healing from trauma.

So thank you for starting this thread. It is a tough topic. We wish that other people knew how to treat us as good friends, and a lot of 'em just don't.

Here's to moving on to better ways for our selves.

In time you may find a way to enjoy these people who come and go - without doing much in between the times you see them. But you may also look back and realize you don't miss their flaky ways at all!

Trees

[Iamenoughmary]

Trees,  I felt alone in this friendship issue. I don't anymore because others on our journey understand. Thank you for understanding .  I am trying to heal from letting others control my thoughts.  Just yesterday I was going to text that friend. In a spur of the moment feeling of being  let down, I was once again going to tell her I had texted her, I had called her, and now it was her turn!!  I deleted it!  I just could no longer keep doing it. I realized I sounded childish.

I'm worth more than the time she makes me feel unworthy. Let her comment all over social media.  If there's no time for a lifelong friend then my accepting that is HUGE in my healing process. I still have much work to do on myself, but I'm learning so much here.

I also love the inspirational pages on social media.  So helpful!  FB has  flower gardening, art, music , just lots of positive stuff without the daily drama and personal issues that everyone thinks they must share! 

So yes, here's to us and moving on to better ways and days!

I'm not going to miss the flaky ways at all.  If they reach out, I will also, but I think it will be very different.  We learn each day that we matter too.  Thank you Trees

[Iamenoughmary]

Had to tell you what my friend did! Keep in mind that  I've known her since 7th grade. I've had her landline phone number since she got married and bought a home in the early 70's.  She sent a Christmas card with her phone number in big bold numbers.     

I called her last time and just texted a week ago...  not appropriate

  Shes lucky I haven't texted her about it, but just not worth it.  A sign to say goodbye.  I've taken quite enough!

[moglow]

Or you could do as I reminded my mother, when she told me I need to call her more often: The phone works both ways.
I'd deliberately waited her out to see when/if she'd call, then called her on thanksgiving. Six months silence. Pretty sure if there hadn't been a holiday she wouldn't have called either.

Sometimes we just need to let them be who they are and refuse to accept guilt trips.

[Iamenoughmary]

moglow, I have told her before it works both ways, same for texting!  I haven't this time but did other times. I see how contrary she is now.  I wont waste time on her, but did need to vent. Your mom sounds like mine. I am always calling her yet its rare she calls me unless I'm to pick her up something from the store. You are so right we just let them be who they are, but it is rude.  I don't feel guilt but do get angry. Thank you for the reply!