The lovebombing phase

[Pink_Teapot]

Hello everyone,
I have a couple of questions about lovebombing that have been confusing me for a while as I try to figure out if my husband is suffering from NPD. (I am gradually beginning to understand that whether he is or not probably doesn't matter and I should get out regardless, but I am still curious to know!)

About 20 years ago I had a relationship with a narcissist who was absolutely textbook - he ticked all of the boxes, including the lovebombing ones.  At the time I hadn't heard about narcissism - I just knew that I felt awful and his behaviour wasn't 'normal'. When I stumbled across an article about narcissists online, I almost cried with relief! I luckily hadn't been with him too long and was able to pack my bags and leave and I never looked back.  The whole relationship with him spanned about 9 months and the lovebombing part was maybe 2-3 months (until we stupidly decided to live together   

Fast forward to today and I am married to my husband of 8 years and for the last three years I have been seeing red flags and battling with the idea that he may be a narcissist too...but I am struggling to accept it because for so long he was my white knight in shining armour!  For the first 5 years he treated me wonderfully....almost all of the time.  There were definitely a few teeny little things during that time that made me wonder, but no one is perfect, and 99% of the time I felt like the most important thing in his life.

I have read that the lovebombing phase is generally quite short, but my honeymoon period lasted a few years, and that's making me wonder if it could be real?  And the way he treated wasn't as over-the-top as the first guy. When I look back at that relationship, it was blindingly obvious that it wasn't real, but with my husband, it was more slow and subtle and everything was lovely....until it all started to unravel about three years when infertility took over our lives and that's when everything changed 180 degrees!  And since everything changed, I have never ever been lovebombed again.  Is lovebombing always part of the cycle? I feel like I got lovebombed once, for a few years, and then discarded when he realised that we were not going to be able to produce children together (ouch!) Since then he has checked out of our marriage, shows me zero interest, affection, connection - nada, and does all the classic narcissist things whenever I try to talk to him (stonewalling, ignoring, blame-shifting, insulting -everything!) I literally feel as though I live with a stranger...but he never does the lovebombing again.  If he were a narcissist, do they always go through the cycle of love-bombing, devalue, discard, or could it be that mine has just gone directly to devalue/discard and is going to stay there forever?

I am still with my hubby at the moment, but trying to figure this all out and I feel like  I could be more secure with my decision to leave if I were sure that he would never change and that I am not abandoning him when he needs my help most (how co-dependent does that sound!?)

Thank you so much for your help x

[escapingman]

If he makes you feel bad, does it matter if he has NPD or not? Just a thought, could he have got a really bad depression finding out you could not have children? It doesn't justify his behaviour but has he tried therapy? If it is a depression there might be a chance?

[Pink_Teapot]

I have suggested therapy (individually or together) but he won't consider it.
I do believe that the infertility thing is at the root of all of this but am not sure if it's fixable or if it a catalyst that has brought the real him out from behind his mask.
I have suggested lots of options like adoption or using donor eggs, etc. but he is shut off from any alternative - the baby must be his, it must have both of our genes and he must be in control of how it is made.
It's bewildering to me, and you're right, it probably doesn't matter why this is happening, just that he is behaving selfishly and shutting me out (oblivious to how I am feeling about anything)...
Yes...the tiny possibility that he is maybe 'just' depressed and that this is all temporary keeps me hanging on in there, although he has told me that there is no cure for the way he feels. Urgh!

[Catothecat]

From what you describe, Pink, I doubt he's NPD because in my experience with NPDs, the lovebombing phase only lasts as long as it takes to get you enmeshed.  Disguising the NPD behavior for a long period of time doesn't seem like something a PD does because it takes too much effort.  As well, they will show other signs of the PD because lovebombing then discarding is far from the only one.

Sounds more like your h is a garden variety narc when it comes to the issue of paternity.  I think if I was in your shoes, I'd ask him what he sees for your future together, because living like you are doing isn't viable.  If he won't consider any options for going forward, then how are you going to possibly go forward?  In my opinion, he's brought the both of you to this point so it's up to him to make a decision.  Maybe even give him a timeline for that decision.  You already seem to know what you want, now it's his turn.  Yes, he may be depressed, but if that depression is being driven by thwarted narcissistic desires, treating the depression (which he already resists) without treating the narcissism won't change him. 

[SonofThunder]

Hi Pink,

I do not believe that properly protecting myself and genuinely caring for another human being are attached.  PD's attempt to attach them by use of the IDD cycle (Idealization, Devaluation, Discard) and also the Karpman drama triangle behaviors, as that connection keeps a 'caretaker' (see Fjelstads book) improperly leashed to the adult PD's well-being.  Imo, adults need to adult themselves. 

I can suggest that a PD seek therapy and provide them Uber money to get there if needed, but I will no longer be leashed to abuse by the improper emotional connection. 

Lovebombing imo is typically connected with the playacting relationship facade, typically at the beginning years (mine was 5 years long) of a relationship in order to get a nonPD fully committed.  Imo, PD's (both male and female) use conceived children as a massively complex legal and manipulative lock and key to solidify the 'caretaker' stays around in that legally leashed and immensely complex emotional connection between the two adults and their offspring. 

On that opinion, the fact that you have not been able to conceive (if he is a PD) could be a reason for his hostility because to him, your infertility (so sorry Pink) is a denial of the complex lock and key he desires to legally, emotionally and manipulatively secure you as his 'caretaker' for a lifetime of his growing demands. Imo, PD's desire to keep us non's compliant behind the facade of the happy home, as projected to the world outside your residence.  If we do not comply, we suffer.  If we have children together, all will suffer as the nonPD spouse and children also become pawns in the manipulative game.

Below is a link to Dr Ramani's video on the IDD cycle.  Keep in mind that lovebombing and hoovering (a part of the cycles return to the beginning) can look very similar.  Finally, i believe protecting yourself is most important at this time and that he should adult himself. 

SoT

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Oik4IsgQ4uk

[escapingman]

The time of the phases really varies, and when you not educated you probably don't even know what is going on. Looking back through my relationship with STBX I had a reasonable short but extremely intense love bombing period. The first devalue campaign started shortly after she moved in with me and I can see now that the main object she had was to ruin my friendships. Then I think the love bomb and discard was intermittent, mostly love bomb until she managed to get me to move to a new town with her where I knew absolutely no one. On the day we moved in she discarded me and let me sleep on the sofa for a week. She then moved back to devalue with a bit of love bomb thrown in. We got married and I thought now things will be good, they went worse. We then bought a house and things went good for a while as it gave her a lot of supply, we were almost back to really good and love bomb, but then there were  a lot of devaluation going on, but she did reward me for getting her a house in the best village we could afford. We got kids and moved to where her parents lived, they dragged her totally into their drama triangle and I was her shiny rescuer to protect her from them, that was back to a golden period, until uNPDfil died and uNPDmil quickly found a new man and left STBX with me. With only me for all her drama it went rapidly south and it was a long period where it would be going between devalue and discard, but as she didn't give me onse single crumb of love bomb I woke up and here we are.

I am curios to what both of you are saying that you had 5 years of love bomb, was it no devalue thrown in at all? How disordered are your PD's? STBX is so disordered she can't control herself at all unless she really really forces herself to, but then it won't be for that long as she need to devalue someone.

[Amy-Rose]

Hi,
I'm speaking from experience with a friend and not a partner so they may be slightly different. I have no qualifications to diagnose anyone (obviously)

Love bombing can last years if it takes years to fully feel like the victim is under the spell, but it tends to very short and brief and can be re-introduced at any stage in the relationship, usually when they haven't discarded you so not hoovering but feel you're pulling away.

It's excessive attention, displays of affection and it's usually a little uncomfortable. It often makes you feel a bit obligated to give back because they have given so much to you.

Example of love bombing from a friend that might help you out:
This friend was also a neighbour so she did small talk from time to time. No friendship at all yet. Then we had a mutual loss of a friend through suicide and she seemed to leap at that. One day we were just neighbours. Friend passes away. Next day BEST BUDDIES. She kept coming around my house. Texting me quite frequently. Including me in the organising of our friends flat (she got me in to help empty it but then seemed to disappear herself, after taking what she wanted, leaving me and our friend's sister to empty it). She needed my help to walk her dogs, needed my support a month later when her sister died, needed my help all day when she returned with a smashed up car (she claimed from her nephew) a van full of her sister's stuff to unload, 3 dogs to walk (2 new ones from her sister's) and a bunch of errands to run. She'd show up all in tears. Yet I remembered that when my uncle died only 5 hours after our friend she seemed to have very little empathy or concern for me. I got gifts for all the things I did for her. As someone who does a LOT for others and is lucky to receive a thank you from anyone, this help AMAZING. Someone finally appreciated me. The boxes of chocolates were usually what she'd gotten free from other people. Most of the stuff was out of her house that she no longer wanted. None of the gifts were bought for me, so no expense on her side but I hadn't noticed this yet. So I got the odd box of chocolates back for her because I felt I should. Daft I know!
Before she went away she'd spend the whole day with me, because we wouldn't be seeing each other for a week. Then the whole day when she came back, I believed because she'd missed me. It was an instant, intense bond.
I felt special, needed, appreciated, loved, noticed, valuable, worthy - this increased my self-esteem. As intended.

It felt weirdly like the first few months of dating. All loved up. This person is perfect. Then "oh, that story didn't quite add up. Hmm. It's probably just me." We're having fun every evening walking her dogs. She told me private things about her life (an abusive father, mean gold-digging cheating ex, her hardships with her mentally ill nephew, looking after her 102 year old nan. Then repeat. The same stories over and over, different every time. But only ever about those people. No real mention of her deceased wonderful mother. No mention of any other ex partners. No mention of her other two sisters and their children.

Then one day I went: "Wow! Is this a friendship or dating?" There was no going out together accept to walk her dogs. But it had that feel. I began to feel a bit uncomfortable. She shared very little with me, yet it "felt" deep.

Then after 2 months of constant contact she just disappeared for two weeks. Seemed to forget me existence. It was odd but I left it and she came back and things continued being good for months. Then suddenly, disappeared again for two weeks. This continued for months.

Then gradually less contact. She took longer to get back to me. Showed up more and more only when she wanted something and began talking constantly about her wonderful other friends and going out to nice places with me. I thought 'all I do for you and all I get is helping you walk your dogs and dog sitting for you for nothing so you can go spend time with them'.

Soon it became are you free this weekend to watch the dogs so I can go and spend time with someone else. The gifts became sporadic until they disappeared all together and I only got them occasionally and when I'd done something for her.

Didn't feel so special anymore. I felt used, took for granted, invisible, and my self-esteem dropped massively. I began crying all the time when she spent time with her other friends. I felt angry and jealous. Very uncommon for me as I'm not in any way a jealous or clingy person.

Then it reversed back to love bombing for 2 months. Then the bouts of silence. Returns when she wanted something. Then the bouts of silence went from 2 weeks until 2 months had gone by. Back again when she wanted me to take her dogs. I did so. 3 weeks of silence after that.

Love bombing is like stroking, then stabbing, stroking then stabbing. And it's quite overwhelming. It's not an odd gift here and there, but lots of gifts then none at all. Lots of attention then none at all. It swings from extreme highs to extreme lows.

It's designed to make you dependant on them to feel good so you stick with them. She just didn't do a good enough job.

I hope this clears it up a bit for you. I wish you well

[Cat of the Canals]

My main PD experience is with my mother and my MIL.

My mother is BIG on lovebombing. In some ways, I'd say it's her default behavior. She knows the more "nice things" she does for people, the more bad behavior she can get away with. Also, my mother can be quite sweet and kind... IF everything (and I mean everything) is going her way. If even the smallest thing doesn't go her way, then out come the claws. Additionally, our family system is such that everyone spends an inordinate amount of time working to keep her happy. If someone were observing the family, they might say, "Well, she seems normal most of the time." The reality is that she's only well-behaved because the rest of us are walking on eggshells to keep it that way. Perhaps a dynamic like this was what led to your lengthy honeymoon period.

My MIL, on the other hand, rarely lovebombs. (On the rare occasion she does, it lasts very briefly. Like literally 2 minutes.) In contrast to my own mother, she seems to believe that everyone should do her bidding at all times, regardless of how she treats them. In fact, she often behaves as if the meaner she is, the more likely she is to get her way.

As for your question about whether or not the lovebomb-devalue-discard cycle has to continue in perpetuity: no, it doesn't. In fact, lots of relationships end when the narcissist decides you have no redeeming value left, and they do a full discard. Other times they might discard for months or years at a time before suddenly trying to start the cycle again (I believe many narcissists return to formerly reliable sources of supply, especially if their current supply has run low or dry for some reason). There is a chance, for example, that if you were to show signs of wanting to end the marriage, he'd suddenly be motivated to begin the cycle again.

[SonofThunder]

EM, to answer your question, my 5 years includes dating, which imo is the critical part of lovebombing.  A marital contract is a legal bind, so the dating lovebombing can come down a notch.  As you said, each step further of legal intertwining makes it harder to unravel and also produces supply feed for the PD.  Add a mortgage, shared bank accounts, car payments and behind the scenes, its getting thick. The clincher is creating children together.  A huge supply but also a great tool for needed coercion to compliance. 

Im not saying PD spouse's dont desire all those things, as a joy in living, but they surely make the lovebombing effort unnecessary and make the devaluation for coercion a great tool for self-gain.  Imo, thats why i dont consider hoovering a lovebomb, because the intensity of hoovering (in my experience) is nowhere close to lovebombing. 

Hoovering just led to calm, and my compliance to achieve that calm, and then I was idealized for my compliance...until the bar got raised once again. Wash, rinse, repeat.  But lovebombing in dating and in the first year(s) of marriage pre-kids...way different.

SoT

[Pink_Teapot]

Thanks so much everyone - you've given me a lot of interesting things to think about.

I like the idea of asking him how (or indeed if) he sees our future together. The last time I tried to have a conversation with him about it, in between being attacked and blamed left, right and centre, every question I asked him about 'us', his answer was 'I don't know'. Not exactly the husband of my dreams...but then if is going through some sort of mental collapse over not having children, then maybe it's understandable?

Curiously enough, we have had a gazillion fertility tests done and all of mine came out great and it was his that came out really bad, which adds to my confusion about why I am being treated badly.

Geez, sometimes I think that if I had spent the same amount of mental effort that I have put into trying to figure him out and save my relationship into something fruitful, I could have had a Ph.D in something by now!!
Thanks again for all taking the time to comment, I really appreciate it xx

[Cat of the Canals]

Curiously enough, we have had a gazillion fertility tests done and all of mine came out great and it was his that came out really bad, which adds to my confusion about why I am being treated badly.

At the heart of every PD I've ever met is extreme insecurity that they cover with a 10-foot thick concrete wall of denial. The thing is, the insecurity might be buried deep, but it's still there, and on some level, they know it. What comes out then, in almost every case, is an avalanche of projection. THEY aren't the problem. YOU are.

Not exactly the husband of my dreams...but then if is going through some sort of mental collapse over not having children, then maybe it's understandable?

Something I often ask myself about these behaviors to gain more clarity is: would I treat someone this way? Would I use my own inner turmoil as an excuse for treating the people around me poorly? The answer is no.

And look, no one is perfect. We all have bad days and inadvertently take it out on other people. The difference is that when the bad mood clears, a mature adult takes responsibility for their behavior. "I'm sorry I snapped at you." etc. Whether your husband is PD or not, he certainly sounds like he has extremely limited and immature coping mechanisms.

There's a book called Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist by Margalis Fjelstad that I think you'd find helpful.

[square]

I have read that the lovebombing phase is generally quite short, but my honeymoon period lasted a few years, and that's making me wonder if it could be real?

Sometimes it's short, sometimes it can last for years. My former boss (who I was close to) was sweet to his wife for at least six years before it got to the point where she was visibly drained/hollowed out by the narcissistic behavior.

Narcissists come in different flavors, some more successful and some more pathetic, high or low impulse control, different ideas about what ideal mask they want to wear. My boss was successful and had high impulse control. He didn't have meltdowns, he would just discard you with a handshake and pat himself on the back about what a great guy he was.

His wife was happy and satisfied for years before his cracks started showing, because he was very successful. He was getting what he wanted out of his business and climbing up in the world. She was happy to wait for him, tolerate all the time away, wear clothes that were falling apart and go without a car because soon he would reach his goals and they would have everything they wanted.

But soon kept stretching and he bought hmself snazzy clothes and a nice car because he "had to" for the business and eventually she was seeing how she had to make all the sacrifices and got none of the payoff. As she started trying to meet her needs, he became more distant to her because she was no longer the happy little nonperson he wanted. He just wanted her to shut up and be thrilled with him.

So, yeah, that took years and years. Other narcs can barely hold it together for a week, but some can go years.

I will say, though, that looking back, there were signs. But the signs were easy to brush off because he would smile when he saw her and call her sweetie. But there was enough fuel to carry them a long time before it dried up.

If he were a narcissist, do they always go through the cycle of love-bombing, devalue, discard, or could it be that mine has just gone directly to devalue/discard and is going to stay there forever?

My understanding is that sometimes they go through the cycle only once.

Using my boss as an example, while I did not see him discard his wife (I am NC with him now and they moved 1,000 miles away so idk what happened since), I saw him do hard discards of so many people - after idealizing them. Extended family members, friends, clients, employees, just a wreckage of people one after the next.

I am so sorry you are going through this. It sounds like a complete and total shock. My heart goes out to you.

Some questions:

- Looking back, have you seen your husband discard anyone else? Whether he never spoke to them again or was merely distant or frosty?

- Looking back, have you seen him idealize then devalue or discard anyone? Could be more subtle, but could look like the early part of a friendship, hiring a contractor, or anything else he had high trust and then closed it down based on an imagined or real disappintment?

- Looking back, are you thinking of ways things were not quite as good as they seemed? Things you brushed off because he was otherwise sweet, ways he disregarded you or your needs but it blew over quickly because youfell into line?

[Hattie]

Hi, I'm sorry to hear about your situation. I'm not sure if H is a narc as 5 years seems a bit too long for lovebombing. But it does sound like he's taking his disappointment over infertility out on you.

Just wanted to share that I ran into unexplained infertility with my narc ex. At the time, I was devastated. However the lack of children meant that at the end of the relationship, I was able to cut ties and go "very low contact" with him. He wouldn't have been a good dad, I'm afraid to say. I'm glad I'm not tied to him forever.

After we split, I froze my eggs on my own. Now I'm 41 and not quite sure what the future holds but I have a new boyfriend, so let's see. Like you I'm also open to donor eggs, adoption etc. All the fertility stuff aside, I'm so, so much happier being able to live a calm life with no negativity or drama.

Just wanted to give you a bit of hope that things can be better for you in future, despite the disappointment of infertility.