Please help me not reconcile with STBX or go easy on them

[haribo_milchbaren]

Just got off a call with STBX. In the call where I asked for a divorce, they went through all the blaming, DARVO, lots of nastiness. They said that last time they were very understandably just upset from the terrible news.This call STBX was very calm and seemed willing to work amicably with me together with a lawyer. Until the final part when they asked if I was willing to reconcile. Then it came out they consulted with a friend and the friend agreed that I vastly overreact at what I perceive to be conflict or anger or their booming voice (I *am* a very sensitive person, and yes I know that my sensitivity to conflict is higher than the average person but I feel this is being used against me), that I can't identify other people's emotions or even mine (low blow, I have worked on identifying emotions in myself and trusting my gut in therapy heavily in the last year, and STBX even helped me out with this), that I stonewall him (it's a trauma reaction from going up with an uPD parent which I am also working on in therapy), avoid important conversations (because he explodes when I try to have them), that they supported me while I was in the psych hospital (I dreaded visits home because there were so many fights and they were angry all the time), and even went to couples therapy with me (where I didn't bring up a lot of things I shoudl have because I didn't realize that they were serious red flags). STBX is all of a sudden willing to go to couples therapy now and doesn't want to throw away the life that we've built together. Unfortunately even though I see that this is twisting the facts, and that they are cherry picking the information they tell to their best friend and so the best friend agrees, I don't want people to think badly of me AND I actually feel badly for THEM now because they will be at a great disadvantage financially in this divorce. But I STILL feel badly and sorry for them and don't want them to hurt, or be out on the street, and I AM remembering the good times.

I just need someone to set my head straight. I am feeling like this is completely on me again and that I'm the asshole.

ETA: I feel like I've completely exaggerated everything I've told my family and friends over the last two weeks and am feeling guilty about it. Even about what I've posted here. What is wrong with me

[escapingman]

You are not wrong, they are messing with your mind. Keep steady and go on with the divorce. If it was genuine, they would have tried to sort things out before they were handed the notification of the divorce.

My STBX did this, don't fall for it!

[Poison Ivy]

 

[moglow]

Note to self: nobody has to be "the asshole." It's not a happy relationship, couples therapy didn't get you very far previously and you see no point in going there again. He can tell his best friend/family whatever he wants and they can all respond accordingly. PLUS you have no way of knowing what was said anyway.

None of that changes you or this relationship. You feel how you feel, as does he. Take a deep breath and remember how you got where you are. And carry on.

[Boat Babe]

Ok, sit down with a big piece of paper and start writing:
All the names you've been called
All the gaslighting and manipulation you've experienced
All the fear you've felt
All the isolation you've experienced
All the word salad, rantings, insanities you've been subjected to.
All the silent treatments
All the shrinking of your horizons
All the loss of your self worth and self-confidence

Stick it on the fridge and read it aloud anytime you feel the urge to return to your abuser.

[escapingman]

Ok, sit down with a big piece of paper and start writing:
All the names you've been called
All the gaslighting and manipulation you've experienced
All the fear you've felt
All the isolation you've experienced
All the word salad, rantings, insanities you've been subjected to.
All the silent treatments
All the shrinking of your horizons
All the loss of your self worth and self-confidence

Stick it on the fridge and read it aloud anytime you feel the urge to return to your abuser.

[haribo_milchbaren]

Thank you everyone. This is so incredibly helpful. I guess it will take time to break the trauma bond but I am determined to do it. The more I tell friends the more they confirm that yes, this was abuse. I am an intelligent person and can't believe I got sucked into this mess.

I will definitely be writing that list. It'll help. The only thing I second guess is - what if they do really commit to therapy and really do get better? Though I have read on this site that there are only treatments and no cure, so there's no guarantee that the problems would go away. Not to mention we also had regular couple problems (difference in opinion on kids, living in the city vs suburbs, very little hobbies in common). I just don't see how this would work and I honestly feel relief at being able to do whatever I want with my life. And yet...and yet...

[StartingHealing]

Thank you everyone. This is so incredibly helpful. I guess it will take time to break the trauma bond but I am determined to do it. The more I tell friends the more they confirm that yes, this was abuse. I am an intelligent person and can't believe I got sucked into this mess.

I will definitely be writing that list. It'll help. The only thing I second guess is - what if they do really commit to therapy and really do get better? Though I have read on this site that there are only treatments and no cure, so there's no guarantee that the problems would go away. Not to mention we also had regular couple problems (difference in opinion on kids, living in the city vs suburbs, very little hobbies in common). I just don't see how this would work and I honestly feel relief at being able to do whatever I want with my life. And yet...and yet...

Please, please, please don't.  Do not go down that road.  Do not go down the what if's, the coulda, shoulda, woulda,  the feelings you are feeling at this moment are not going to stay.  That is why the list that others have mentioned is so very important.  That list can be an objective way to see what the reality was. 

In my own experience with people that have personality disorders, typically they do not see themselves as having any flaws, weaknesses, or anything that your average human has.  Since there is nothing "wrong" with them, going to therapy isn't them going to get help.  It's an act, it's a way to show somebody somewhere just how wonderful they are.  But it's a front.  It's not "real".  It can turn into either a way to hoover you back in, or as a method to prove just how righteous they are.

Wishing you all the best

[Rose1]

A wise friend told me nothing has to be permanent. If he goes to therapy, commits to it and gets better (in years not days) then you can always revisit the relationship.
Didn't happen if course despite all the words. Because words and blame are easy. Doing the work isn't.
Look at what he's doing not saying. Actions are always more truthful.

[escapingman]

Just to add, I went to couples therapy after I told STBX I wanted a divorce. I thought, what is another 2 months going to do to the timescale, so I went, knowing she would not be able to change. STBX used the session to blame me and to get the therapist to side with her against me. After a handful of sessions the therapist asked for an individual session with each of us, the first she asked me when it was just us was you don't want so reconcile to you? I said no and then that was pretty much that. STBX then went ballistic when she was given the divorce paper as she had convinced herself all was good now, despite not changing AT ALL.

[Boat Babe]

I've been reading a lot about trauma bonds lately. A huge component of trauma bonds is still holding out hope. Watch Dr. Ramani videos on trauma bonds. You'll see your hope for therapy is all wrapped up in that. I still do the same thing to myself, but at the end of the day, these people don't change.

A component of trauma bonding is addictive behaviour. It's complex and I only understand it at a very superficial level but here goes. All addictive behaviours boil down to getting a dopamine fix, be it gambling, shopping, substances, sex ayc. Addictions involving substances, including alcohol, have an additional layer of complexity because of the nature of the addictive substance itself., Which is why coming off booze etc has physical implications while gambling doesn't. What all addictions share though is the chasing of the dopamine hit.  How does this link to trauma bonds?  When a loved one is kind one moment and horrible the next we are hurt and confused. When they are kind again, we get a big dopamine hit and feel much much better. Rinse repeat, sometimes for years. Our actual physical brains adapt and mold to this. We desperately seek what will make us feel better *even if it goes against our own self interest* That's what addicts do. They know it's not good for them but they do it anyway.

So .... To overcome our addiction to the person and the dynamic we have to go cold turkey and, as in 12 step programs, go sober. For me it meant leaving and staying left. No contact, no stalking on social media, no nothing. It was excruciating. I have self made recordings of me talking to myself. When I look at them now, I can't believe the state I was in.  But, it didn't last. I got through the worst of it in a few months and slowly weaned myself off my trauma bond. I used every healthy trick in the book (thank you Out of the FOG website and forum) and got my life back. It was akin to coming off heroin but without the physical addiction.

I hope that helps and I also hope I haven't minimized anyone's experience of substance or other addiction.

[escapingman]

Boat babe, you are spot on when you talk about addiction. Addiction is one of the fight/freeze/fawn responses. I have struggled with various addictions over the years, most quite harmless but it's definitely a way to get away from reality and not have to take action. I had various of gambling issues when I was much younger, not to the extent you read in the papers but when there was a black jack or roulette table when I got to a night club I had to play and I played until I lost all money I had for the evening and then got in a terrible mood and went to get more money until I had to go home. This was quite easy to stop when I eventually decided enough was enough. I have had various nicotine, alcohol and comfort eating addictions, I can see now it's definitely a coping strategy. Same with addiction to my STBX, as long as I kept all focus on her and for her to fix me, I could forget about my own issues. This is getting a bit deep and since I am not a mental health professional this is only based on my own behaviours and feelings over the years.

[haribo_milchbaren]

Phew, okay. I need to stay strong. I looked through the resources on this site, already began compiling a list of the awful shit STBX did, and plan to watch Dr. Ramani’s videos on this soon (if I can get the anxiety under control, see later in the post), but was wondering if you all have specific resources on breaking that trauma bond that helped you most. I am so upset that my therapist is on vacation this week when I need her most, but I will have to survive. She is the first one to tell me that I’ve got a trauma bond and so I hope that she can help me with breaking it.

Right now I have to focus my attention on getting our home up for sale asap. It is draining all of my money (I pay for literally everything, they are disabled - legitimately, and were before we met, a whole other story which I may make a post about). And I have been on stress leave since the spring so am only receiving a percentage of my usual income. Unfortunately we co own it so it will involve some interactions with STBX which I hope to keep to a minimum but STBX still lives there so ‍*shrug*. This is why it’s so vital that I need to make sure I don’t get hoovered back in during these interactions.

And secondly, I need to find out asap what resources are available to people on disability in my area because STBX is making crazy demands for spousal support and unfortunately due to the income disparity (STBX collects peanuts for disability, not even remotely enough to live on) I am required to pay some amount (TBD with lawyer I suppose, but feeling crippling amounts of guilt that STBX will be homeless or living in horrendous conditions).

Guys, I’ve been unable to sleep with the amount of anxiety I’ve been having over these two things. I’ve been having to take my as needed anxiety meds and having breakthrough anxiety attacks. It is hell.

ETA I realized that the spousal support / lack of income thing + the suicide thing was causing me so much anxiety in the past about even letting me admit to myself there were issues that I can see why it took this long to do something about (something I’ve been beating myself up over). I’m talking not being able to eat or sleep. Or function normally. It was easier to push it down so I could have some semblance of a functional life.

[haribo_milchbaren]

haribo,

I'm very sorry for the anxiety you are facing. I can certainly relate, I have had my share of anxiety and panic attacks over the years. This forum is not a place to make medical recommendations, so please take this very lightly and with the tone of "this helped me, I have no idea if this will help you": Have you considered talking to your Doc about longer-term meds, SSRI's, instead of just the as-needed meds? I am not ashamed to admit that I started taking SSRI's because of my situation with uPDw, and it was the best thing I could have ever done...while my anxiety isn't totally gone, it's manageable so I can at least sleep and eat, and I don't have panic attacks anymore. Again, this is not medical advice, and you need to talk to your doc and therapist about if this would help you, but just wanted to share what worked for me.

I don't have answers on breaking the trauma bond...I'm still working on that myself.

Good luck to you!

Thank you - that's a good idea to discuss with my doctor when I see them next. Anxiety is something I struggled with to some degree already, but with STBX it's just magnified outside of anything I ever had before. I guess there's no shame in taking something for the time being while I go through this awful period. I was taking heavy doses of meds several years ago and I felt it was numbing me to the problems, so have strongly avoided trying any again, but my eyes are very open now, and it's clear that this is affecting my ability to function now.

[haribo_milchbaren]

Oh my, I have a feeling this is love bombing and hoovering. Spoke with STBX again yesterday. They told me that they spoke to a lawyer and the lawyer even suggested reconciliation because it's so rare that people want an amicable divorce in a case like this (I don't know what "this" is, they declined to tell me what they told the lawyer). The thing is, I want it as simple and cheap as possible so I can just move on with my life. But STBX says that they'll go to anger management, couples therapy, anything. They love me so much still and don't understand why I'm leaving. I thought it was fairly obvious but now I'm doubting myself that I told them exactly why. On the other hand, since they were scaring me so much I didn't feel like I needed to explain why.

Ok worse, the lawyer I have been consulting with is insisting I move back into our shared house where our shared car is to take back power. I'm in a bad financial situation now and have been couch surfing with no car while paying the mortgage and all the expenses and STBX refuses to sell until spousal support is worked out. This goes against all my instincts. I don't think I'm in physical danger, I'm mostly afraid of the psychological manipulation now. And you can't exactly call the police for that. Even a friend with an N ex told me this is likely necessary. I hate this with all my heart and soul. I hate that I will need to go speak to the police first. I hate the idea of going back to that house where all that horrible stuff happened. I just want to move on with my life. I still care deeply for STBX and seeing and being in the same house as them is...

[haribo_milchbaren]

Haribo,

My gut says that what you are experiencing from STBX is manipulation and control. The claims that they'll do all those things sound like empty promises...will they actually go through with it, and even if they do, will it do anything?

To me, it sounds like your gut says to say no to STBX's demands, and say no to the lawyer's suggestion you move back in. If I were in your shoes, I think I'd trust my gut.

If you want to move on with your life, do it. The lawyer is not in charge of your life. I say, more power to you to just say no to all the requests and demands and move on!

I ended up trusting my gut because it was SCREAMING at me to not move back in. Because I have been diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder, I often discard my gut feelings as anxiety, but I am getting better at recognizing when it's my gut and when it's anxiety. Sometimes it's both, and in this case it might be. But I feel like it's a justified anxiety, because I remember how much I was being manipulated, and remember walking on eggshells and I don't want to go back to that.

I have found another lawyer who sees that I am being actively manipulated but has also been compassionate with me (as opposed to telling me I must do things because they make the most legal or financial sense). I will be meeting with them next Monday and looking forward to hearing about the strategy they are putting together. Such a huge sense of relief, albeit temporary. I've been reading about lawyers forcing clients to do and sign things they aren't comfortable with, and was fearing I'd end up with one like that as well. And because this lawyer does not come off like this, I actually feel more comfortable opening up to them about the things I'm really ashamed of that have been happening, and feel as though I am getting better advice because of this. I just hope that this lawyer also has some teeth when it comes to dealing with STBX or their lawyer, because STBX absolutely knows how to elicit tremendous sympathy and pity for themselves, if necessary. And can be extremely charming, interesting, and magnetic. Classic PD stuff.

Interestingly, on our last call, I had been feeling kind and generous because STBX was speaking with me seemingly mostly reasonably till that point. I told STBX they could keep our beloved pet after we split up, I won't make any demands towards that. I guess STBX smelled weakness and then spoke about the possibility of having to live in our vehicle with the beloved pet, and the pet freezing to death (as it gets very cold in winter where we are). And then flipped the camera to show our pet for a very long amount of time until I began to cry. I was very upset by this understandably, but didn't even see it as cold blooded manipulation until the lawyer pointed it out. And that even they were feeling disturbed by this. And the more I think about it, there is no way STBX would ever let this happen, he loves our pet way too much (like, an unhealthy amount, I'd say).

The more I am not in contact with STBX the less their pleas to change, manipulation, etc affect me. I noticed this with my uPD parent as well. I feel less anxiety, and have occasionally been excited thinking about plans to move on with my life. And when there has been contact, I immediately change to feeling badly for them, thinking about how I was really in the wrong too, and maybe should go easy on them. I am so glad I have noticed this. I'm not sure I can prevent it from happening when we do speak but at least I know that if I reduce contact to a minimum that I can reduce the damage. It really does make me sad though. Both of them really do have amazing, loveable, interesting parts to them, but they just hurt me too much.

[hhaw]

Noticing reality is the first step to having more choice, H.

You're very observant.  It's a good thing.

[InTheDragonsDen]

Your gut for me I call my head.
Anxiety comes for me when my head and my heart are going in totally different directions.
My head has never ever ever been wrong.
Stay safe.

[hhaw]

Typically, resistance to acceptance is the root of my anxiety.

Acceptance, if things I can't change, reduces stress in my life.

[PlantFlowersNotWeeds]

 

When I can accept and let go - my anxiety goes way down