I need help real quick

[Dinah-sore]

I am so sorry to bother you guys. I feel so bad because I have already done this so many times in the past. But I need your help again.

I have posted in the past about my npdH and his anger and rage issues, as well as his neglect issues. But it has been about a year and a half since he escalated to the feeling that he is going to hurt us.

I thought the last time was the last straw. But then he got better. I even tried to pretend that he might love me. We got along, we seemed like maybe it could work out.

But Friday night, my daughter got upset because he made a careless mistake, but his mistake was something that would make her disappointed. She was voicing her frustration, and he lost his mind.

She was in the hallway saying something to him and I was in between them trying to help her, and I heard him charge at us from behind me. So I turn around and I am trying to push him off me so he can't get to her. But he is enraged. When he backs up we see that I have his glasses in one hand. When he was getting in my face I had my hands up blocking and his glasses got tangled in my fingers.

Then he got mad at me that I had his glasses. And was screaming at me to give them back. He kept getting in my face like pushing his body into me and his face darting forward in like a challenge to provoke me. But all I wanted was for him to stop. At one point he was in my face again acting like he is going to fight me and I pushed his face back with my hand. I just wanted him to back off. I didn't hit him or push him back in a way where his head would sway back. It just pushed him off me for a second.

But now he is acting like I was the aggressor, he is the sad victim. Screw him. He came at me, to get to my daughter and do the same shit to her. I stood in his way and told him no.

But I struggle so much with doubt. And again I feel like I have to hide his outburst from my therapist so he doesn't get in trouble. And technically he probably didn't do anything where he could get in trouble.

He  didn't hit me. But I know it is wrong what he is doing. I know that he will do it again in six months, a year, I know I want a divorce, I just don't know how to get from point A to point D (for divorce) with two sick kids and my own bad health. Right now I am stuck without options.

But in the meantime, my mind is telling me what if he is right and I was aggressive with him when his glasses got stuck in my fingers and I pushed his face out if mine. Even though he was using his body to push into me and physically intimidate  and domineer me, and my daughter. And none of that would have happened if he would have just took a minute to calm down.

My daughter who was the one he went after, told her sister later what happened and i was listening. What I didn't know at the time was that he had raised his fist at us. when he was charging at us, his fist was cocked, and raised, like he was going to hit one of us.

so when i turned around and the clash happened, it was already at a high level of aggression. he was even more aggressive than i realized

I think it comes down to, do i have a right to protect myself? to push him off me? I don't want to hit him, or be in a home where I need to think about, "is it okay to use self defense? Or to push him off me?" But i don't know what else to do, he was trying to do that to my daughter, because she was frustrated by a mistake he made carelessly that affected her.

I was also very sick that night with the flu. He goes out and hangs out with sick people during a pandemic then coughs all over me for days and i get the flu. but i am medically vulnerable so it hits me harder. i could have gotten it anywhere but i got it from him. and then he gets frustrated that i am sick because it isnt convenient for him. Its whatever, my specialist had already given me a tamiflu prescription to have on hand so i could take it right away if i started getting sick. but like my doctor made a special "if Dinah gets the flu" plan, because it is rougher on me right now. I didn't even have the energy to deal with this.

so we are not talking. he is moping. there is something really wrong. I also feel like he has hatred in his heart for me, even when things were good. I feel it. A disdain. Maybe contempt. I tried to pretend like he loves me because I really want to be loved before I die. But he doesn't. This isn't love. And he never apologizes. The worse he messes up, the more he will just seem upset at me instead.

I feel like saying to him. You just showed your daughter to tolerate a man treating her like this. Was it worth it? You want her to let someone do this to her, well she watched you do it to me and I took it so thanks for that. Thanks for using me to teach her to accept mistreatment!!!

[Starboard Song]

But I struggle so much with doubt. And again I feel like I have to hide his outburst from my therapist so he doesn't get in trouble. And technically he probably didn't do anything where he could get in trouble.

But in the meantime, my mind is telling me what if he is right and I was aggressive with him when his glasses got stuck in my fingers and I pushed his face out if mine. Even though he was using his body to push into me and physically intimidate  and domineer me, and my daughter. And none of that would have happened if he would have just took a minute to calm down.

I think it comes down to, do i have a right to protect myself? to push him off me? I don't want to hit him, or be in a home where I need to think about, "is it okay to use self defense? Or to push him off me?" But i don't know what else to do, he was trying to do that to my daughter, because she was frustrated by a mistake he made carelessly that affected her.

You never have to apologize here: this community is here for each other.

I don't know enough about your situation, but I do know there are Emergency Resources available to help you. Go check out those links. And I do know you need to consult someone IRL about this type of violence to decide how to proceed.

And we can all see that those things your mind is telling you -- those nagging doubts -- are bullshit: you KNOW you were in a defensive mode and at no time intentionally even touched his glasses. Just tell those thoughts to find another home.

Self-defense is always honorable, though we should all work to arrange our lives to minimalize the need for self-defense.

Please do check out our emergency resources I linked above, and please seek IRL counsel to ensure you are considering all available options for your safety on future prosperity.

[Poison Ivy]

I agree with Starboard and user.

[escapingman]

Dinah, it's not you.

My uNPD Psychopath STBX has attacked me several times.

- Once she tried to kick me down the stairs, I grabbed her leg to protect myself.
- Once she charged at me trying to tackle me into the fridge when I was bending down to get something out and had to put my arms up and push her away.
- Once when driving and she attacked me grabbing my arm leaving bruise marks whilst I tried to push her away from me whilst still driving.

All above incident she blamed on me attacking her.

It's not you, it really isn't.

[square]

Hi Dinah,

He pushed his glasses into your hand.

Of course you had your hand up. Gandhi would have had his hand up.

He is blaming you so loudly and repeatedly because some part of him knows he charged his ill wife and medically fragile child in order to terrorize them.

He would not have had to deploy a frantic propaganda campaign if what he did was okay.

You are exhausted and it's damn difficult to make a plan or make a move when you've been drained dry.

I just want to say, I understand you don't have these nice and tidy options. I know you are not in a place where you can just withdraw 20 grand from the bank, pack yourself and the kids up, and put first month and deposit on a nice new apartment.

There are still options, though. They are messy and they are hard.

I know all your ideas seem impossible and flawed, but what are your ideas? (You don't have to share if you don't want, but think about them).

Imagine if you had put one of these flawed ideas into motion three years ago.

What if you moved on one of these ideas now, or very soon? Where could you be in three years?

[moglow]

Dinah, you shouldn't *have* to protect yourself from your husband or anyone else. Not only do you have the right but you have a responsibility to protect yourself as well as your children. I suspect he's moping because he knows he's wrong. He's not likely to admit it, but he may be hard at work rewriting the incident in his mind, just like he did with the others. He can change it inside all he wants in his mind, but you know the truth.

I don't know that I'd lie or keep it from my therapist - how are they to help you if you can't be honest? I understand the fears of worse happening if something is said and the abuse is addressed - but as has been suggested above, what about BETTER? How is locking all this up inside helping you or anyone feel better about themselves or their life?

This isn't a quick or easy path, for any of you. The kind of help I think is needed is hard and painful, no matter which side of the fence you're on. But what changes if you do nothing? I wouldn't go to him with what he's teaching your daughter about relationships or for you to accept blame for his behavior. HE needs to address HIS behavior, while you address your own. Life is messy, things are going to go wrong and we're all going to disagree or be angry and disappointed at times. Meltdowns and rages and fear shouldn't play any part in that.

Please stop apologizing for needing help. Never apologize for that. That kind of thinking leads us to believe we're all alone and all the Can'ts/Won'ts/Shouldn'ts will continue to haunt us.

[Dinah-sore]

Thank you all SO MUCH for responding. And for your insights and encouragements. I was hesitant to post because I feel like I have done it before, and I am still in the same place. I need to make some plans and start taking steps, even small ones. And I feel guilty that I haven't yet.

I have therapy in a few days and my therapist knows my husband because he came to an appointment once so she could talk to him. I don't think she likes him very much. She told him that he needs to help me more, be supportive, she asked him flat out why he has never read a book or article or done any research into the kids illness. Etc. I think my fear is, what if I tell the therapist that he went after us because he was going after my daughter and she feels like calling CPS. I am so afraid of my kids getting taken because they need so much care. What if CPS thinks I am just as bad because I haven't left him yet.

[Spring Butterfly]

I think it comes down to, do i have a right to protect myself?

It's not a matter of what you have the right to do - it's a matter of what is safe for you and your daughter.

We can validate your feelings and the fact one human should not treat another human this way. We cannot tell you what to do. You must make those decisions because you live with the results of every decision you make. We do not live with the decisions you make. You and your children do.

Please consider your next steps carefully and review the Emergency Resources along with the section of Chosen in the Relationships section here: https://outofthefog.website/relationships/

[square]

Hi Dinah,

I am glad you were brave enough to share this rather than just stuffing it back down.

All your instincts are right, you felt assaulted because you were assaulted.

It was assault even if your kids were not involved, but their presence does increase the betrayal and trauma for all of you.

Your husband is displaying sociopathic behaviors. He is not just fooling around with you and getting a little carried away. He is specifically and purposefully assaulting you. And specifically involving the children.

Dinah, if there is any way you can be recording all interactions while you make your plans, audio only is okay, this would be a great asset to you.

That he is a pastor makes such a recording even more valuable.

I suggest you make a plan asap and inform your therapist soon.

If your therapist decides to make a report to CPS, you could simultaneously make your own report to them.

You can call a DV center and see if they have suggestions on how to most safely approach the possibility that your disclosure could trigger CPS involvement. But use your own judgment ultimately.

You can also call your local police non emergency line and ask if you can file a report. If you are notvready to press charges you can ask if the report can be filed for now while you get your ducks in a row. Even if you never press charges, it could be helpful to have it on record.

I would want to know if your DV center has any leads on legal help. Is there a pro bono lawyer who takes cases like yours. If so, a lawyer could be your key to this whole thing.

[xredshoesx]

from the perspective of someone who almost went to jail in a domestic bc my state has what is called a mutual combatants law on the books

i was told in no uncertain terms that in my state if i fought back i could have charges pressed against me based on the above and the best thing in my area was to remove myself from the situation anyway i could.  this was after i got assaulted in a very public place by my ex.  people saw him hit me, but the same people also saw me respond to it which became more of a problem then a solution. 

before you decide what your next course of action is please do talk to someone at a local DV shelter and/ or an officer of the law.   like spring butterfly said- we aren't the ones who may have long term consequences from the decision you make.

[Starboard Song]

I was hesitant to post because I feel like I have done it before, and I am still in the same place. I need to make some plans and start taking steps, even small ones. And I feel guilty that I haven't yet.

One thing I appreciated hearing was so simple: this is actually hard. It doesn't merely feel hard to you, and you are not weak. You are dealing with problems that are actually hard. So go easy on yourself.

Don't be hesitant to post: we can take it. Don't feel guilty: feel motivated.

I encourage you to do these things from my broken record:

• Enlist the support of a friend IRL. We are here, and will be here for you, but you deserve an IRL resource by your side on this: a friend you trust.
• With your friend, write down two lists. The first is things you KNOW are true. The second is things you know are NOT true. Compose them: write carefully. These are things you've maybe circled around and around on. Is it or isn't it your fault? Should you feel guilty for whatever? Would certain types of change be good or bad? Try to avoid putting the same item on both lists: I know I am short / I know I am not tall.

Y'all decide what to put down. But for me it was 5 to 7 things in each list. I wrote down stuff that "in my heart" I knew, but couldn't get off the dime about. I found these lists highly motivating. They were statements of truth about which I would no longer putter about or gnash my teeth or JADE. And that IRL friend will call you out: "Stop it, Starboard!" they could say to me. "That's item 6 on the NOT TRUE list and you know it!"

My heart goes out to you, and you really do have a community here who gets it.