Guilt and emptiness

escapingman · December 21, 2022, 08:51:12 AM

I am struggling right now, I feel really empty, lonely and guilty. I am feeling guilt for not falling in line with FOO, I am missing STBX and just wish she could come back as the person I thought and wanted her to be. DD is playing me emotionally and is trying to punish me for boundaries I am setting up, she doesn't like them. She is supposed to have a sleep over at a friends whilst I go for a night out with the dad and some other friends, she is trying to get out of this to punish me for cancelling another activity for her (she has been ill for a few days and today is the first day she is OK but I am stopping her from doing sports out in the cold). I have noticed this more and more with DD that she doesn't want me to have a life other than serving her. Any friends I am trying to get she is making comments about and trying to make me feel bad for it. My sister is only interested about if the presents she has sent has arrived and mum is pointing out she transferred money for the girls.

I know I need to push this feeling of guilt away, but it is overwhelming right now. I have nothing to give, and no one is giving me anything. I am absolutely exhausted.

square · December 21, 2022, 09:08:24 AM

I think I've said this before, your DD is at a hard age. She has the foundations to be quite insightful and mature, and I think in a couple of years She will be handling disappointments and setbacks much, much better. But she does have trauma and negative role modelling in her background, so it has definitely affected both her triggers and her coping.

She does trust you and will come back. Keep being the adult and it will pay off.

I know you are so drained you have nothing spare to give. You are still managing somehow. There will come a point where you will have a litte extra again, and then a little more, and a little more.

So what I'm saying is that it's hard right now but hope is on the horizon. Keep putting one foot in front of the other, and you will get there.

NarcKiddo · December 21, 2022, 09:41:49 AM

Quote from: escapingman on December 21, 2022, 08:51:12 AM
DD is playing me emotionally and is trying to punish me for boundaries I am setting up, she doesn't like them. ... she is trying to get out of this to punish me for cancelling another activity for her .... I have noticed this more and more with DD that she doesn't want me to have a life other than serving her. Any friends I am trying to get she is making comments about and trying to make me feel bad for it..

I agree with what square said. I also invite you to have another look at what you said in the extracts shown above at a time when you are feeling less tired and emotionally triggered.

DD is not STBX. For sure she has had bad role modelling from STBX and may even have fleas. But do you honestly think she actually has the aims you are describing here, or are you so used to this treatment by STBX that you are falling back on this as a rationale? It is really tough when you are trying to be the parent and the adult and have no proper support yourself. But seeing DD as an antagonist here may not be helping either of you. She has seen your struggles with STBX. She must feel your emotional pain to some degree, however well you may hide it. She may be making comments about your friends because she is scared you are fragile. She may be fragile herself and feel safer if you are around all the time "serving her" as you put it.

Take a deep breath and be kind to yourself. Grieve the loss of the person you thought STBX was. Keep going forward and doing the right thing even if DD acts out. But try not to take it too much to heart when she does act out. You will get there. You are getting there. You may be closer than you think.

Hugs.

escapingman · December 21, 2022, 11:15:09 AM

This is actually becoming really difficult as DD really is wearing me down, she is refusing point blank to go and sleep at her friends without giving any other explanation than that I am selfish for wanting to meet a few friends. I know she is in a difficult age and also have a lot of trauma, but this is one of her best friends and only live 2 streets away. If DD is going to keep me from having any social contacts I am going to struggle even worse than I am now. I have been looking forward to taking my mind off things and now I am facing a possible blow up unless I cancel my plans. I know she isn't STBX but this is hurting.

Poison Ivy · December 21, 2022, 11:23:21 AM

Google "teenagers acting like toddlers"; here's only one of the many results that came up for me: https://www.scarymommy.com/teens-toddlers-developmentally-similar

escapingman · December 21, 2022, 12:09:36 PM

Thanks Poison, yes it's definitely a teenager tantrum, it doesn't make it easier though when you are on the ropes. However, I stayed calm all the way through it and she tried to get me to react but I didn't. DD was never allowed to get to this stage before as STBX would have made it about her and attacked DD until submission or abandoning her. In the end after talking calm to her, and explained why she needs to do what I ask she came back to me and now she is calm and happy. She says she still doesn't want to go but she is understanding and is OK with it.

Parenting without a PD is certainly different, and easier.

Poison Ivy · December 21, 2022, 12:19:56 PM

You are handling these challenges very well, escapingman!

hhaw · December 21, 2022, 12:28:43 PM

My girls are young adults and we're still navigating boundaries and codependent patterns, EM.

Of course there's going to be some struggle. It's normal.

I noticed my kids always said NO to everything, like a knee jerk reaction. If I remained calm and keep my expectation......most times they'd comply. I think they needed me to provide a safe container, remain consistent and BE the parent while they test limits.

I hope you calmly go about your business and get the evening you planned. DD has no reference for functional family behavior. It's ok for her to fear into the unknown. Stay steady and reassure her. Maybe she'll explain her feelings if you ask, mirror and listen with compassion. Some part of her is suffering.

How can you help her feel safe?

.

square · December 21, 2022, 12:45:47 PM

I've given this more thought. I think the label for what is going on is "panic attacks."

My DD has them. When she is experiencing one, she becomes inflexible to the extreme. There is no compromise, no problem solving, no reason. It's just NO NO NO, even if the issue in question is not reasonably avoided. Alternatives cannot be discussed because it's just a primal NO.

She feels like she is, for a lack of better description, going to die. Catastrophe is ill defined but inevitable, as she feels it.

I have not totally figured out how to deal with it, but she and I have made improvements over time. Here is what has made improvements:

1) Labelling it during a calm time

"I wonder if you might sometimes be experiencing panic attacks. Here are the symptoms. What do you think?"

But only during calm times. Imho, I think it's usually best to avoid labelling it during a panic attack, especially if you are being perceived as blocking her safety (eg making her go to a friend's house). It will feel to her life you are minimizing it, even if you aren't.

2) Taking it seriously is not the same as letting it call the shots

Over the years, DD has learned that I take her anxiety and panic attacks seriously. I do not ever say "you're just anxious" or "just get past it" or anything like that. I've expressed that it is real and very difficult.

However, I do not take the stance that her anxiety gets to call the shots. Sure, if there is something easily avoided, no problem, I don't make her do stuff just BECAUSE she's anxious, that's definitely counterproductive. In fact, knowing that I accept avoidance of low stakes triggers gives her room to tackle them on her own, without feeling like she has to fight me. For example, she is a new driver and avouds drive-thrus. Fine, we can go in and order, no problem. On the day she had no other options she decided on her own to do it, and it wasn't complicared by feelings of a parent trying to make her.

But other things, no. It doesn't avoid the issues but she knows intellectually (when calm) that some stuff can be avoided and some stuff can't.

3) A doctor might help

We haven't had any luck with counseling, honestly, but in emergencies she takes a beta blocker which has an off label use for anxiety. It calms her body, stops her heart from pounding. She doesn't take it often but it's reassuring to know it's an option. She finds it effective enough to manage some hard stuff.

4) CBT

This isn't just something I read, we actually did it and it helped a lot, not only with reducing anxiety but also just overall shaping how she understands it and her understanding of me taking it seriously and supporting her.

For DD, and possibly yours as well, seperation anxiety is the fundamental issue. It is normal in small children bur she continued to have trouble going to school, a friend's house, etc., as she grew older.

When she was younger, maybe 8 or 9, we first brainstormed a list of things that made her anxious. I asked her to rate how anxious each item made her on a scale of 1 - 10. She easily came up with some 10s, and with my help we identified some items with a lower number. The key was to find some 3 - 4s. These were items that made her nervous but would not trigger full on panic. In her case, they were variations on being in a public place in sight of me but at a bit of distance.

With her buy-in, we created thise situations in real life, such as going to the library with me in sight but in the next room, or sitting on a farther bench while she played on the playground. After a few times, she retated those situations as 1 - 2s.

Furthermore, some 5 - 6s became 3 - 4s as a result. With her buy-in, we created those situations, such as being in a public place, nearby but just out of sight for a short time. And so on. Eventually she was able to do things she originally labelled 10s.

5) Maturity well help

It doesn't help you now, but DD did start managing things better with age and the above.

But, I don't have anything magic to deal with in the minute. Just, stay calm and don't add to it. I found that she is unable to make decisions in that state and she does not do well with even well intentioned attempts to decide if she would prefer X or Y, so I'm the grown-up and I decide. No point in reasoning, just "we are going in 10 minutes." I do not know what to do if it came down to literally dragging her out the door, I think so far she has crumbled when it came to me just walking out without her, so she would go, angry as a wet cat, but out the door. She tends to calm down with aline time after the dreaded event happens.

Good luck to you. Hope some of this helps. Oh, and I do know the feeling of being at my absolute wit's end, believe me. I've been furious and shocked and despairing. It's improved, though.

Poison Ivy · December 21, 2022, 12:55:25 PM

Great post, square. I also remind myself to not let MY anxiety call the shots.

escapingman · December 22, 2022, 04:39:45 AM

Thanks for all support on this, I got to go out yesterday and I think DD had a great time with her friend. Interestingly one of the friends told a story about his struggles with his sister and how he could not believe what she had become, sounded like classic PD behaviour but I don't think he is ready to see it.

Square, DD has told me she is suffering what she calls panic attacks at time. She tells me that sometime she start thinking of her mum and remember some episode and hear her voice in her head, then her heart starts pumping and she doesn't know what to do. This often happens in school she has said and she has to leave the classroom.

After DD calmed down yesterday she was very calm with me and felt safe as she shared another self harming episode that I didn't know about. She showed me some new marks on her arm and told me she did it after receiving a message from her mum. I sent a message to GC a while ago and told her that I am here if she needs me and that she can always come to me, whatever. STBX basically copied that message and send it to DD which sent her into a state.