Any one had the "WE ARE ONE" mind job?

Amy-Rose · December 22, 2022, 03:09:13 PM

Hi, thanks for coming hear and replying to my question.

I had this very toxic friendship that I ended two months ago and whilst writing in my journal about it to help me get some clarity I realised I noticed this behaviour she did with me. I have no idea if she was NPD. Sometimes I wonder if she was more BPD as she claims her sister also had that. She lied, manipulated and used a lot, but there was some strange behaviour I'd like to share because maybe you've had the same or might even be able to explain it because I can't!

WE ARE ONE
After a few weeks she began this weird "WE" thing when actually it was her. Things like:
"WE've been talking so long to (whoever) that we'll be late now." And I'd think. "No, WE weren't talking. YOU were. I was sitting here bored waiting for you."
Or "That's the sort of thing WE'd do/say." When actually it's the sort of thing she would do/say not me.
"You know what WE're like!" Nope. Nope. I actually don't know what we're like because nothing we do is eventful and consists just of taking your dogs on the same walks. WE aren't really like anything. The friendship felt hollow. Very little laughter most of the time. Just empty. Dull.
"Knowing US we'll forget!" My memory is VERY good. Hers if often bad. She can't even remember her own lies.
This started to work on me, though. Sometimes it felt more like a 25 year old marriage (as in no sex and no interest that way in each other. It's the hard truth people, live with it!

)than a casual friendship.

The other was swings from one extreme to another.
Sometimes she came across as quiet, shy, no eye contact, embarrassed grin around people
Other times the shyness vanished. She'd look people in the eye and stay straight faced. Very out spoken and could hold a confident conversation. It changed from day to day and anything in between.

I never noticed this stuff until I started journaling about it. Anyone noticed anything similar?

Cat of the Canals · December 22, 2022, 11:42:05 PM

I had a very similar experience with a suspected PD friend, but she started hitting me with the "WE" stuff pretty much immediately. Constantly repeating that "We are the same person!!!" And she got very familiar very quickly... like you know when a romantic relationship is "moving too fast?" It was like the platonic friendship version of that. Where the things she was telling me were NOT the kind of things you'd normally be telling someone you've only known a few days. That's become a red flag for me: consistent, MAJOR oversharing.

Catothecat · December 23, 2022, 09:26:47 AM

Now that you bring it up, Amy--yes, indeed! Had a friend who for a while was my "best friend" (I was like a sister to him! Yeah, right...) and he would do this and interestingly, I didn't notice because at the time I thought it was some sort of truth. We were such good friends we were alike in many ways (which was the point of these types of statements) when in reality we weren't alike at all, just had some things in common that he grabbed onto in order to bring me into his orbit.

In hindsight, it was absolutely a manipulation because it reinforced the friendship between us, even as that friendship was actually very one-sided. And guess whose side it was actually on? But he would say or do something, then laugh and tell me "now that's just what we'd do (or say), isn't it?" with a type of wink and nod. It also served to make me party to his behavior as if anything he did or said I would automatically go along with or agree with, almost as a type of block to any objection or examination to it I might have. Since "we" were already on the same page, how could I object?!

Amy-Rose · December 23, 2022, 10:25:27 AM

Both of you cats are spot on!

And yes, it was a bit of a whirlwind romance. Me and her were just neighbour acquaintances when our mutual friend died and the next day it was like she leapt to me. The very next day I was being told about her "suicidal" drunken, methed up nephew who she had to do "everything" for. Then very shortly after her "abusive" father. And ex partner from 12 years ago who was meant to have been hell to be with even though she only saw him for a weekend every fortnight for 5 years. How hard up she was for money, although she seemed to have plenty of money when she wanted it for something. I had to hear all this and she always seemed to wait until we were alone to tell me this stuff. All her other friends seemed to get the same old jargon. I was dealing with the death of my best friend and my uncle (who died of co-vid only 5 hours later) and she showed zero interest in any of that. Just one story after another about her hard life. How much she suffered.
Sometimes I wonder if she might have been more BPD than NPD. She never acted controlling, but rather entitled. She never criticised me or brought me down, but also wasn't the type to celebrate your achievements with you.
Glad she's out of my life to be honest. But everyone knows about the trauma bond, but no one talks about how gruelling it is to free yourself from.

Thanks for your replies and interesting how we all often suffer the same thing with these people.
Have a Merry Christmas and I hope you have an even better New Year x

countrygirl · December 23, 2022, 08:25:58 PM

Hi,

It was interesting to read Amy-Rose's description of the use of "We," and the trauma bond. And to read the cats' experiences and thoughts too.

In my experience when someone gets that close that quickly, it never works out. As I was reading this I remembered someone I met years ago, who went around telling everyone that "We are like sisters." I already didn't trust her, and was appalled that she said and thought this. I have been friendly to her, but nothing more, nothing to warrant "sisterhood." I guess the reason such relationships seledom work out is that they aren't based on reality.

I must confess that I've been taken in before by such people, when I have liked them a lot at first, and have felt that "the bond" was real. I was always wrong. And it was painful.

Cat of the Canals · December 23, 2022, 08:36:12 PM

Quote from: countrygirl on December 23, 2022, 08:25:58 PM
I must confess that I've been taken in before by such people, when I have liked them a lot at first, and have felt that "the bond" was real. I was always wrong. And it was painful.

I have to confess the same. The thing about the "we are so alike" thing is that there's a lot of implied validation there, and I think it's hard not to be taken in by that level of acceptance.

Andeza · December 23, 2022, 11:47:12 PM

Yes I've heard this line from uBPDm and from others about which I had concerns. I'm not particularly normal. Always classified as "weird" by my peers growing up and didn't fit in with others, so whenever someone says "We're just the same!" in my head I'm laughing my butt off saying "I highly doubt that." Just by virtue of always being the odd one, the odds are not great I'll meet anyone just like me. I've met people with similarities, but not identical, and they recognized the similarities, enjoyed having a commonality "Oh cool! I do that too!" and we can talk about the one thing pleasantly and carry on with our lives without any weird attempt at being super fake twins...

I also just have trouble genuinely relating to others so I think it has helped shield me a bit. Back in the day, on the interwebz, when total strangers did this we called it "glomping" onto someone. Think bear hug/tackle grab, just not physical, emotional and mental instead. Can be very dangerous in the wrong people and cause stalker problems. It's not always a PD red flag, but it's almost always a red flag for something. Emotional immaturity, lack of individuation, disordered thinking or general disfunction.

Call Me Cordelia · December 26, 2022, 03:50:18 PM

Lol yeah my mother. I was to be her mini-me. For as long as I can remember she's bought me presents that have reflected her tastes, not mine. Especially as an adult she bought me home decor that is so not my style and then got offended I didn't display it all.

I used to anticipate her and ended up saying some things in unison. She was never happier with me than when I would do that. Makes my skin crawl now.

easterncappy · December 26, 2022, 05:27:56 PM

I think this is probably similar to how a lot of personality disordered parents insist that their own children have the exact same opinions as they do. And they literally cannot wrap their minds around the fact that different people have different opinions. My mom would always cope by saying that people have to be pretending to like things she dislikes, or dislike things she likes. I had a friend who would get very very upset if you had a different opinion than her. My husband pointed out that she is probably personality disorder too, and over time it showed itself. She would get extremely argumentative and sarcastic if she was met with any difference in belief, even a very minor and petty one.

I think a lot of it is also the general tendency for them to get too close for comfort, you can call it enmeshment. They tend to view others as an extension of themselves, which is why they don't get why you're different. They think they can speak to you because they view you as a part of them, or something that exists solely for them to achieve a certain goal. If that makes sense.

Lookin 2 B Free · December 27, 2022, 12:18:27 AM

Wasn't it in the book Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist I read about this? The pwPD wants the 2 of you to fuse into one. And that "one" is *them*!

It's not even like "Let's be twins and take some of you and some of me and turn that into one personality we both adopt." No. You're supposed to just be subsumed into their shadow with their opinions, values, desires, and feelings.

My PDex did this kind of thing. And whenever I burst his bubble by revealing that I was actually a separate person -- not even anything that challenged him to change or do anything except hear me voice my own response to things -- it really angered him.

I think it's very threatening for many PDs to fully recognize that others they've labeled as close friends and family are actually separate, autonomous people.

countrygirl · December 27, 2022, 10:54:21 AM

I agree with all of your observations, Lookin 2 B Free,

When you wrote that you'd burst your ex's bubble by letting him know that you were an autonomous person, I was reminded of an ex longterm friend, an extreme N, who would always say to me; "We're in the bubble." If something happened to me, no matter how small, she would say that same thing had just happened to her. I was forced to pop her bubble too!

And, yes, they do think that you are one person, and that "one" is them! Very well put! My father always thought that I would know what he wanted in any given situation, even if he hadn't told me. When he had an operation, and they asked whether he wanted to have any extraordinary measures taken if need be, he said, "My daughter knows how I feel about this." I promptly told him that no, I did not, because he'd never told me. The extreme N friend also felt that I knew everything about her too, even though she hadn't told me.

losingmyself · December 27, 2022, 11:54:04 AM

Yes! My H seems to think that we're one person, incapable of acting autonomously.
"See? We think the same"
"I can read your mind."
Should have been a big red flag.
I have a Christmas dinner coming up that only employees are invited to. Not my decision, and it's a simple supper gathering. He said he was going to come and sit in the other part of the restaurant. I told him to go ahead. He's just going to make himself look weird and jealous... He won't accept that we might have to do things separately.

Amy-Rose · December 27, 2022, 05:21:24 PM

Wow I didn't expect to see so many people relating to this. I thought everyone would tell me I was mad and to go see a DR as I sound paranoid! Phew!

The other thing I hated was how nice and generous people were to her for no reason. She had these friends that would invite her round for diner and entertain her for hours, only to never be invited to hers back.
Then one day, one of them actually came here. None of her mates ever came to our estate. And this poor woman had to sit with her in her van for 4 hours because she didn't seem to want to let her in. She'd been round hers hundreds of times. I spoke to this mutual friend briefly and she didn't seem overly pleased.

Two weeks later, inviting my narc friend for diner again.
Why can't people see they are being used?

countrygirl · December 27, 2022, 08:26:32 PM

Hi Amy-Rose,

Often people can't see things because they simply don't want to see them. This woman probably takes in other people with her "We-ing," so to speak!

Not to speak ill of my deceased friend, but it took her the longest time to believe what I was telling her about my extreme N friend--the one from whom I finally escaped. She kept saying, "I never say that in her," of "She never treated me that way." I pointed out to her that she only saw my N friend very sporadically, and when she did see her it was only for ten or fifteen minutes at a time! In contrast, I'd known the woman forever and ever. I also pointed out that when the N friend first meets people, she tries her best to charm them, because she wants to see a "perfect" reflection. Finally, I was believed, but it was an uphill battle.

In this case, my extreme N friend was well to do, and my other friend was flattered by her attention. I just posted on here the other day about having been taken in by people myself. I understand how it happens: You want the other person to like you, because you like them, and they are being friendly and saying flattering things. However, even though I understand this, I always want other people to see through the act too. If they know the person long enough, they will see them for who they are. I predict this is what will happen with the woman you know.

Amy-Rose · December 28, 2022, 12:25:34 AM

Very true, Countrugirl.
Mine had tons of friends which she seemed to only see sporadically as well. Some only for a few days once or twice a year. Many would only see her every few months. Even though she'd made many of them for years, they very rarely saw her out of her act and while they heard every detail of her victims life, they were never a part of it and she could simply erase or reverse anything unflattering about herself that she didn't want them to know. They only ever seem to see the super sweet, victim that I saw when only a few weeks into the friendship. They didn't see enough of her. They didn't live opposite her. I don't think they see how everything is censored for them.

She'll tell them she is so hard up she can barely afford to run her car and they believe her because they don't see how much she actually does. They don't see how frequently she goes away. They don't know how much many she can spend each month just online, nor do they every bump into her everyday coming home covering in bags full of clothes when she's meant to be hard up. I heard her on the phone one day, trying to book an intensive therapy session for bereaved siblings. It was being done by a charity who charged only £15 for a 3 hour workshop - seriously cheap! But then she began dragging in all her other bereavements of people she barely knew and seemed to forget when it suited her and how hard up she was being too ill to work after suffering all these deaths and so got a voucher for free. Went back to mine and asked to borrow my internet and bought an online course. She then showed me the course and what it entailed and it cost £200! 45 minutes ago she couldn't afford £15 apparently.

That's another thing. She suffers with some mysterious mental illness that she's never precise about that means she too ill to work. But she's not too ill to go out for hours everyday, go away at every available opportunity, dog sit for money or plan holidays abroad. Never to ill to go out for a free meal anywhere and frequently gets herself very dressed up to see friends. Massively different from when I see her walking around our estate like a scarecrow. She's not too ill to do anything but work it seems. She had to be written off work for stress and fatigue and seemed to always be complaining about how crazy busy work was but then I discovered she only worked there part time. And she thought she had a right to complain.

I felt and still do feel constantly confused. I did feel sorry for her, there always seemed to be something happening in her life and while some were exaggerated, others were genuine. She could be so nice and sweet. Yet there was often all this contradicting stuff. It was like naughty and nice in one body. It was like dealing with twins. One was sweet, kind, grateful, loving, thoughtful and the other was sneaky, manipulative, lying, secretive, and took no accountability for her actions. I found myself going backwards and forwards on it.
I think she even used to Gaslight but I'm not overly familiar with it yet or what classes as gaslighting.

It's been over 2 months and it's still a bit difficult sometimes

countrygirl · December 28, 2022, 08:26:43 PM

Hi Amy-Rose,

People like this are very manipulative, and even though she probably hasn't had the easiest time of it and can be sweet, in her way, you can't trust her, because you really don't know when she's being sincere and when she's acting. And she might not know herself!

You obviously are a caretaker, as evidenced by your fostering the animals, and so you naturally feel sorry for this woman, but my bet is that she can see that about you and tries to play it to the hilt. I knew someone like this. She worked where I did, and she had wrapped the boss around her little finger by telling him all about her travails. She was very attractive, and knew how to use that too!

This also just occurred to me. You are a "healer," and it is natural for you to try to figure out what is going on with this friend, so that you can help her. But since she is so manipulative, and since I bet she doesn't even know herself that well, you are left feeling perplexed. You do not know what you would need to do in order to help her. I think you would have to be a therapist in order to understand what is going on with her, and even then she would have to want to be helped.

Amy-Rose · December 29, 2022, 09:17:00 AM

I've always had an interest in mental health and why people behave the way they so - so I think you've hit the nail on the head. I think I did want to help her at first, but glad she's no longer a part of my life anymore. Some people wave around the "help" sign but they don't really want it.

Cat of the Canals · December 29, 2022, 12:19:42 PM

How's this for weird coincidences: the day after I posted in this thread, the "friend" I was referring to sent me a message, totally out of the blue. We haven't spoken since 2018! Do they have radar or something????

Amy-Rose · December 29, 2022, 01:43:11 PM

I think they have something, Cat because every time this friend/neighbour would suddenly disappear on me for weeks or months, the moment I came to my senses and thought 'that's it. I'm done with being used' BAM the next day she'd make contact.

When we fell out she acted very weird and to the extreme.
For four days no lights went on in her flat (she lives opposite me and very close so you tend to notice and because she never closed her curtains her living room light often shone into mine even with my blinds down)
Then she got black of drapes and began closing them the second it got dark
Stopped parking her car outside my house and began "hiding" it around the corner (after about a month she got bored with having to walk further and began parking it outside mine again)
And wouldn't come out when I was outside.

She then went and contacted our mutual friend casually after not bothering with her for months. She was worried I'd told her I think. Funny how they have the ability to do vanishing and reappearing acts as they so desire.

monamurre · December 31, 2022, 04:14:36 PM

This is one of the more difficult issues I have with my mother. She simply cannot accept a version of me and my life that doesn't fit her image for me (which is a carbon copy of her and her life) and is constantly projecting her experiences onto me as if its a universal truth that I experience life the exact same way she did.

I learned not to tell my mom any negative emotions pretty early on in college because she had a tendency to latch on and exaggerate the shit out of my experiences until it resembled some epic saga of struggle (i.e. her life). But sometimes I would slip up or she would find a way in and create this entirely inaccurate description of my experience and then eagerly wait for me to agree with her.

The most eye-opening example came when I was pregnant. I was on the phone with my mother telling her about my latest check up with my OB/GYN and expressing some annoyance about the doctors personality and how I wasn't looking forward to dealing with that while in labor. My mom agreed saying something along the lines of, "Yea, you don't want to have to deal with that while you are terrified and in pain.....", I was annoyed that she had to insert her experience of giving birth into the convo, as I hadn't been super worked up nor was I expecting to be "terrified". It just felt over the top and all about her not me.

Well, then she really got going. She then launched into one of the most bizarre tirades of her whole life. It was like she completely disassociated from reality and began narrating her experience giving birth (all in the first person eg., "I am scared", "I'm terrified", "I'm alone", etc.) for several minutes. She did preface it with something like, "I remember when I was in labor I was thinking...." No it was more like "you will be thinking/feeling......" and then filling in the blanks with her experiences (all of which sounded like they belonged in a Charles Dickens novel).

I remember I was driving at the time and I was so taken aback I looked for a place to pull over. I had not idea how to respond to someone so clearly ignoring what I said and overlaying their experience onto my life. It felt so far from what I had expressed to her that it would have been comical if it hadn't been so scary. I had said I was annoyed with the OB/GYN and within less than two minutes she had taken that and turned it into "terrified and alone". It was both sad and frightening to hear.