Subconscious responses to abuse growing up... did you have any?

[Kovera]

Hello everyone. Merry Christmas weekend 2022!

I'm spending the day at home reflecting on everything I've learned in my healing journey. I must say, looking back at this year I'm listing things i can improve upon in my healing for the new year. One thing that I'm working really hard on fixing is my body's physical reactions to stress. Although I'm not officially diagnosed, I've had many past therapists confirm my symptoms with a high possibility that I have CPTSD. I feel I've had this for decades, as there was never any stability or safety in my home environment growing up, thus the symptoms I experience seem to be that my body is in a constant state of survival mode 24/7, regardless of my environment. Anxiety, hyperawareness, OCD with checking for safety hazards (such as leaving the stove on, checking to make sure I locked the door up to four times every night, etc.)  For the most part, mentally I've adjusted in my awareness and cognitive management of my thought responses in order to live in a more peaceful life. I've improved.

What occurred to me today is that I remember when I was younger and still in the FOG, it seemed like my body was in a way subconsciously communicating that I needed to separate myself from the highly destructive environment living with my FOO. This would sometimes manifest through physical symptoms, such as getting nauseous around my narc parents when I came to visit them, or feeling anxiety induced  hyperventilation when coming home every day from school, awaiting to be harassed on the daily. I had an overall fatigued feeling of being very unwell in the long term when being around them in general, which once I went NC all that went away.

One thing I recall most is eerie nightmares about my FOO. Some of these dreams really scared the crap out of me. A few of the most vivid dreams I remember: 

-My oldest brother tied me and younger brother up, duct taped our mouths shut and aimed a shotgun at us. I woke up after the trigger went off. He was the most physically violent sibling of all us 4 kids.

-I dreamt that my mother was on the floor of my apartment, covered in blood with a knife on her chest. She mumbled something and there was a piece of paper next to her. I can't remember what it said, but vaguely it involved my father.

-Lastly... and this one to this day makes me shudder because it was such a vivid nightmare I had about my malignant narc father:
One day I went to visit him, and was asleep in my old room in his house. I was dreaming that I was a little girl again, and he was in front of me with wide open arms, calling me to come and give him a hug. I ran to his gesture and hugged him, like the happy carefree child I was. But... suddenly, my body got the sensation that I was being crushed to death. Literally, I felt my nerves were turning white hot, my lungs felt pressure as if being squeezed out, and I was shaking and pulsing in fear as if I was being consumed in a massive fire. I look up to see my fathers face get a very dark and deranged smile, and then... it morphed into the black and red face of the devil. What's even creepier? I suddenly I woke up to the sound of my fathers voice, who was standing in front of my bed, telling me to wake up, so as soon as I opened my eyes, there was his face just as I was dreaming. This scared the hell out of me. If there's anything more clear than that in how my body and mind was telling me to GTFO of that environment, I don't what else is. I was only about 17 when that happened, and to this day still can remember it like it was yesterday.

Have any of you ever experienced anything like this? did you ever get physically sick dealing with your FOO? or did you also have similar dreams & subconscious sense that you needed to escape the abusive environment? I'd like to know everyone's thoughts, please share if you'd like.
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[Cat of the Canals]

My mother was so intrusive, and so refused to give me bodily autonomy during puberty (insisting I "didn't need a bra" and forbidding me from shaving my legs), that I hid my period from her for 4 years. It wasn't a conscious choice by any means: I literally felt paralyzed anytime I tried to tell her. I also spent a lot of time beating myself up over it, wondering why I was "so weird" that I couldn't tell my mom something all the other girls I knew had told their own mothers without flinching. Only now that I'm Out of the FOG can I look back with the understanding that my subconscious mind knew my mother wasn't a safe, trustworthy person and stopped me from revealing something that made me feel vulnerable.

I don't remember any dreams from back then specifically, but these days, when I dream of my parents, it often ends with me expressing a lot of rage. Definitely a subconscious venting off all the anger I wasn't allowed to show as a child.

[NarcKiddo]

I identify with the body being constantly primed for fight/flight.

I have had muscle tension in my shoulders, neck and jaw for as long as I can remember. Even as a teen I would complain of my crunchy shoulders. I am hyper vigilant, have some obsessive habits around safety issues, am very sensitive to the smell of smoke and if I smell any I must find where it is coming from (which is tiresome as some of our neighbours have fireplaces in their homes, plus we live close to an Indian restaurant which often fills the air with smoky smells from the Tandoor oven). I have unexplained narrowing of my small airways. I had my gallbladder removed this year. I have a very high sleeping heart rate (which shocked me when I discovered because I am physically fit and my daytime resting heart rate is good). My heart rate variability is way lower than you would expect given my fitness. I have recently read "The Body Keeps the Score" by Bessel van Der Kolk and it flags up most of these issues as common to people with a history of trauma. I have found that doing deep breathing exercises has been helping my physical responses to stress.

Thankfully my family rarely invades my dreams. At least, not dreams I remember when I wake up.

Cat, my mother was also very intrusive. I don't think she would have forbidden me a bra or shaving, but she swamped me and I, too, felt it dangerous to involve her in anything very personal. She wanted to know everything. I was a late developer and bought my first bra before I truly needed one, but all the other girls wore one and I felt very self-conscious. I went to a boarding school so everyone knew everything. However this meant I could get to the shops without mother to buy one. I was too scared to get the shop assistant to help or measure me and I can't for the life of me remember how I worked out what size to buy. The bra itself was a hideous and terrible item - it was very solid in its construction and I have no idea why they made something so stout in such a small cup size.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Body armoring. I quit ballet and wish I hadn't. But my body was very inflexible. I stretched every day and could not touch my toes.

I also developed a chronic autoimmune condition as a teenager which I now believe was directly caused by the constant abuse. My symptoms were MUCH better after I left for college. Which was considered proof that I was faking it for attention!

[Cat of the Canals]

Body armoring. I quit ballet and wish I hadn't. But my body was very inflexible. I stretched every day and could not touch my toes.

I also developed a chronic autoimmune condition as a teenager which I now believe was directly caused by the constant abuse. My symptoms were MUCH better after I left for college. Which was considered proof that I was faking it for attention!

I've always been bafflingly inflexible and never considered the relationship it might have to my mother.

I have endometriosis and read something once by an expert of reproductive diseases that nearly all of her patients have a traumatic background. It's astounding how true it is that "the body keeps score."

[doglady]

Yes, as a child I recurrent bad dreams where vampire-like beings with dead eyes sat round my bedroom walls and stared at me all night long and if I moved a muscle they would pounce. I believe this was a metaphor for how my intrusive mother would pounce on me for every little thing, and it seemed almost lethal for me to be, well, me.

I've also had the suffocation dreams where an evil heavy entity is sitting on and crushing my chest and choking me so that I can't breath. I've woken up screaming from those ones.

As for interoceptive/bodily stuff, I've had palpitations and nausea when my mother's phone number would come up on my phone or when I saw her name in the address line of an email.
I felt like I was in a constant freeze response for much of my life - and just sad, shameful and unwanted, but trapped with no way out, which I didn't understand when I was little.

Chronic disabling and hallucinatory migraines I'd experienced throughout my teen years, and for which there seemed no cure, disappeared completely when I left home at age 18.

Severe IBS which got much better once I went NC.

I could go on... but I won't. That's more than enough.
Suffice to say, I really get where you're coming from, Kovera. I'm glad you're in a better place now.

[easterncappy]

Funny story.

I grew up hearing that I'm a "hypochondriac" and that I'm making things up for attention.

In reality, I had really bad panic attacks from a young age. They came with IBS symptoms and an upset stomach. I remember being nauseated for years straight. The doctors couldn't find anything wrong, but it was there. I wasn't making it up. I was really just that stressed out by my parents. I'd have difficulties breathing, too.

Last year, when I was moving away from my parents and having more difficulties with them, I had all of this all over again. It comes and goes. Usually the more family drama, the worse the symptoms. I didn't put 2 and 2 together until I was an adult. I convinced myself that I must really be making it up if there's nothing medically wrong with me.

My mom would roll her eyes if I told her it was because of anxiety/depression that was caused by living with them. "You had a great childhood, all your needs were met, you got everything you wanted, what did you have to be anxious/depressed about?" was one of her favorite lines. I guess having gifts I didn't want thrown at me made up for the severe abuse and dysfunction?

[JustKathy]

I don't remember having any nightmares when I was younger, but I have them now as an adult. In these dreams I'm no longer a child. I'm an adult and my mother is trying to kill me by stabbing me or tying me up and locking me in a closet. Even though the narc abuse I endured as a child was mostly psychological, the abuse in my dreams is always physical.

I also have a lot of fairly serious mental health problems as a result of the narc abuse. I was diagnosed with GAD when I was about 30, and some years after that, C-PTSD was added. The anxiety disorder has been crippling and I can't function at all without medication. I kept these illnesses a secret from my FOO, and am so glad that I did. I had a cousin who was taking medication for a mental health issue and my Nmother mocked him relentlessly, telling me he was weak and "nutso." If she had ever found out that her actions had caused me to have these terrible disorders she would have been delighted. I'm so glad that she never got that satisfaction. She died believing that I was healthy and happy. (If there was a middle finger emoji I'd use it here). 

[Maxtrem]

I always check that all the doors are locked several times before I go to bed or leave the house.
I have a lot of muscle tension. A doctor and physiotherapist have never seen this. A psychologist told me that constant muscle tension can be internalized anxiety. As a result, I have minor injuries that don't really heal and have become chronic pain. At 30 years old, I wake up every morning with pain and my physical activity is very limited, whereas only 5 years ago I was extremely active.

[littlelimabean]

Oh my God yes!

When I am being yelled at, severely criticized, or anxious, I get shaky. I can't  stand up. I have to hold onto to something because my body is shaking so much. I have trouble breathing at those times as well.

I am very aware of my stress because it indeed has me physically sick. One time I was having shivers, cold sweats, and couldn't walk. It was like my stomach was being vacuumed out. It was so painful. This was the worst stress I had in my life at that point.

As for dreams, I would always dream that I was being chased. Most of the time, my mother would pull me by the ankles and drag my back to where ever she came from. I would try to fly, but she would always catch me by the ankles and pull me back down.

[nanotech]

Hypersensitivity. Hypervigilance.
My FOO were of the covert variety and I had to read between the lines all the time in order to meet their needs, without their actually verbalising them to me.  Sometimes they would say the exact opposite of what they meant and I had to reverse that and then respond appropriately.
For example, an implied criticism was often followed by,
- but that's no one's fault
or
but it's  not YOUR fault.
It always meant it WAS my fault and I'd better fix it.   
My UNPD dad still uses this, as does Nbrother. 
Nowadays, rather than JADING, I  agree with them that yes,  "it's no one's fault!"   Then I change topics.
It really unsettles and thwarts their intentions. Ignoring my own conditioning and just answering the actual words they speak, defuses the power and disarms the intent. This gets easier the more you do it.
Growing up, failure to respond quickly in the way desired and expected, would lead to either covert or overt punishment.
However the habit is a tricky one to break. It's so ingrained that I can still be sucked back in.
I can also, though my hypersensitivity, be over reactive at times, with my healthy, non PD FOC. I can read into perfectly innocent comments and requests. Before I know it, I start thinking they are criticisms of me and/ or requests for me to 'fix' things. 
It's happened in the workplace too, I've thought people were digging at me when they weren't. My fight or flight was so easily triggered.
Luckily as far as FOC goes, since I've been Out of the FOG  ( 12 years)  it's not all that often that this happens. No nowadays. My adult kids are aware of the dysfunction I had/ have in my FOO, and they do notice when I misinterpret. They remind me that they are just chatting to mum and they are not trying to manipulate me!
I have lots of worry/ issues around safety and security. I'm a 'checker' and I have to touch wood a lot. I also like to line things up- arranging and straightening things is something I do when anxious.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Hey nano, this happened to me just today. I read an email and I was like, "Aah oh no this is going to get ugly..." I mentioned it in a neutral way to someone I was working with, in person, and she said, "Oh yes I was so happy to read that!!!" I mean I guess time will tell but I'm just here waiting for the other shoe to drop and other people are just fine. All fight and flighty and managing my emotions and reactions and spending all this energy just trying NOT to react to a subtext others just don't see.

Honestly it makes me feel very... defective.

[nanotech]

Hey nano, this happened to me just today. I read an email and I was like, "Aah oh no this is going to get ugly..." I mentioned it in a neutral way to someone I was working with, in person, and she said, "Oh yes I was so happy to read that!!!" I mean I guess time will tell but I'm just here waiting for the other shoe to drop and other people are just fine. All fight and flighty and managing my emotions and reactions and spending all this energy just trying NOT to react to a subtext others just don't see.

Honestly it makes me feel very... defective.

Thanks for sharing that Cordelia. Not defective, just enlightened and emancipated.
That's interesting. I guess the trick when we react from our time within the fog, is to bounce our initial reactions to communications off someone else, if the context allows.
I have had a particular struggle with safety/security. This was a huge theme in our home. Until I read 'Toxic Parents' I didn't realise it was a  symptom of their black and white thinking and of course a tool for control over their children. 'Danger' was always the reason they used when they curbed my opportunities to grow any sort of independence. They craved sameness, with them still at the head of the family, so they legislated for it.
I'm out there in the real world, but my upbringing encroaches on my thinking when I least expect it. I know I do a lot better than my sisters, who both now live quite hermit-like existences. 

[Spring Butterfly]

Trauma response and such patterns are definitely part of the package when it comes to what we're left with from growing up around PD people. The good news is we can heal.

[JustKathy]

I have a lot of muscle tension. A doctor and physiotherapist have never seen this. A psychologist told me that constant muscle tension can be internalized anxiety. As a result, I have minor injuries that don't really heal and have become chronic pain. At 30 years old, I wake up every morning with pain and my physical activity is very limited, whereas only 5 years ago I was extremely active.

Maxtrem, I also have a lot of muscle tension. I wasn't even aware of it until my dentist commented that I had a lot of muscle around my jaw and that I was a "clencher." After that, I became more aware that I was clenching my teeth all the time, even when relaxed. I also do it with other parts of my body, but that type of thing is so subconscious that I don't catch myself doing it until it becomes painful.

[Boat Babe]

I didn't have any real physical health problems as a result of childhood but I did start doing drugs when I was 16. I was lucky that I never got into deep trouble but they've always been in the mix. Only just, very very recently finally dropped the cigarettes. Addiction and poor choices are deffo a mental health thing

[Jolie40]

I scare really easy!

when I do get scared, I usually scream
if husband or child suddenly appear in front of me (if I didn't hear them approaching), I will scream
it's an automatic thing that I get scared & scream

this has been part of me as long as I can remember

[Cat of the Canals]

if husband or child suddenly appear in front of me (if I didn't hear them approaching), I will scream
it's an automatic thing that I get scared & scream

this has been part of me as long as I can remember

Same, and here's something I've noticed: it only happens at home. Out in public, a plane could crash at my feet, and I would be pressed to even blink. It's like I'm on high alert, constantly scanning my surroundings, so things rarely take me by surprise. (And I also keep my emotions tightly under wraps when "out," and thus give no reaction.) But at home, where I can actually relax and let my guard down, the smallest things startle me into literally jumping out of my chair or shrieking (like my husband appearing where I didn't expect).

[blacksheep7]

I have ADHD, which I noticed at fifty years old when I was living on my own. The result of being on High Alert growing up with raging Pdf. The genes play a part. I still have trouble sitting still. I was diagnosed with GAD in my thirties. I also scare easily.

When I went nc with widowed covert M, IBS kicked in, daily migraines. Now 60+ I have muscle tension, a weakness from my thirties, always trying to do everything in a hurry, wrong physical movements.

Most of my Foo has ADHD but I'm pretty sure that they don't even know.

[NotCryingGlitter]

I'm glad you brought this thread back out, as I've never read it, but it has really given me some comfort, increasing my knowledge on the variety of issues that are due to our experiences.

I don't know if I've fully thought through the jumpiness, and how sometimes you're less jumpy in public, but it makes a LOT of sense. I know I can be a scaredy cat, but it explains extra jumpiness. It also makes me wonder about a few non-major things that, maybe, I should give a little time after moving out, before I see a doctor about...to see if they improve some on their own.

I hope people continue to share.