Mom died, family strangely quiet

[monamurre]

My mom uBPD (waif/hermit variety) died on January 3rd after a brief stay in the hospital with a complication from cancer. There are a million things on my mind, but the thing currently unsettling me is the lack of acknowledgement or contact from her sisters.

My uncle was with my mom when she died (I was not) and I know he notified his sisters. Their children have been in touch saying they heard from their mothers so I can confirm they are in the loop. The sisters were part of a few text conversations during my mom's hospital stay, which was stressful for all of us because my mom, true to form, created chaos and confusion right down to the last. But we did what you try to do in those tough situations, shared updates with each other, sent best wishes, etc. Prior to this I would have said we were all on good terms, if not exceptionally close. We do the Christmas card thing and occasionally exchange Facebook messages.

The only bad blood really is that two days before my mom died, one of the aunts who lives far away got upset and lashed out at me, I think out of frustration that she couldn't do anything else about the chaotic, stressful situation. She called me to say that "the whole family thinks I should be more involved". It was brutal. She came at me in a way that was so astoundingly similar to my mother. They grew up in the same household with the same BPD mom, so of course they were both touched by it, but I had never seen this side of her. I was stunned but regained my footing and shut it down respectfully but firmly. She apologized and I said thank you. I assumed we could move on from that with some modicum of civility after that.

Now its been 48 hours and there is just total radio silence from them. My husband thinks they are just processing their grief and will be in touch. I understand they had less time to process my mom's cancer (she kept it a secret from everyone until a month ago).  But, all I'm expecting is a text with some pro forma condolences. Nothing elaborate or special......am I being self-centered here, or is this kind of an odd response on their part?

I guess it is triggering some stuff about being discarded. My mom shunned me for the last three months of her life, which hurt like hell (despite probably saving me a boat load of stress had I been closer to her). Now, it feels like my close relatives are acting like I don't exist, despite the fact that we all just lost someone important to us.

I wish I could get to the other side of this particular hang-up and just not care what they think or do. But, for now, I do care and it feels crappy.

[moglow]

Monamurre Im sorry for what you're going through. Know that you're not alone and we get it even when it makes no sense.


My experience with mother's family was that their loss and their grief came first. They might or might not acknowledge that others were grieving as well. Far from coming together in grief, they separated to corners, often to lash out from there. Admittedly our family wasn't close due to mother and her sisters' chaos so im sure that came more into focus as well. Also, there's no way to know what your mother may have told them, what half-truths they're running through their minds. They may have a very different view from your realities.


Try to set aside expectations and do what you feel is best overall. No one grieves the same and who knows what demons they're fighting before this. They could simply be waiting for update on funeral arrangements. Is a group text with update or request for their input a possibility, get everyone on the same page maybe? That way there's no he said/she said. Still confusion but it's there for all to see.


Wishing you peace as you work through all this. We're here with you.

[Srcyu]

I'm so sorry for your very recent loss.
It's not nice to hear that the 'whole family' think you should have been more involved. It's also very typical that the relative living furthest away has the most to say about it.  She implied that your family have all been discussing you and the level of relationship you had with your mother. You get all the blame for that, never the mother. Other peoples expectations are the point where boundaries need to be used.

Your aunt, as you said, was probably suffering from her own issues when she lashed out. She may have been projecting and scapegoating.

You feel that you need their support right now which is not forthcoming, that suggests your finger pointing aunt could be pulling their strings. 

[monamurre]

Moglow and Windmill, thank you for your response. I can't express how much this forum has done for me just in the last few months.

I think one of the things I am coming up against is the fact that PD was likely not just confined to my mother, that there may be all sorts of unresolved trauma rippling through her siblings. Its only been a few months since I realized my mom likely had uBPD and I'm still waking up to the full extent of the reality in the extended family. It sort of feels like the floor keeps dropping.

Moglow, your description of the family retreating to corners and lashing out from their made me laugh. I always used to think our extended family was pretty functional, but then again, I thought my mom was normal....I'm now seeing how they retreated to their corners and lash out over the years too....and then pretended we are all a big happy family   

The question about funeral arrangements is funny one. I literally want to do nothing and there isn't much pressure from anyone to do anything because mom as very isolated from family and friends in the past 5-10 years. The only people who have asked about it are my friends who would be there to support me. If we do something it will be in the Summer at her property after it is cleaned up and the weather is nicer. But, strangely I hadn't even considered inviting her siblings. My husband keeps talking about "when they come to the memorial" and I keep looking at him funny, like "why would they do that?" I guess I grew up thinking it was normal for a family to go a decade without seeing each other and likely not bother to travel from out of state for a funeral.....I'm laughing at my own blindspots here! Oh well, I've plenty of time to figure it out.

[moglow]

My family is totally that way, so it makes sense to me! By the time we were adults, the only time we saw extended family members was at funerals over the years. Now mother is the last remaining of her family, she [and we] have little to no contact with our cousins, no contact information whatsoever for most of them. [Mother hoarded information and refused to share, so she could be the hub around which it all centered. And no one bothers ...] I'm thinking when you decide to do whatever, a short message to everyone that she's been cremated/whatever her wish and you'll plan a memorial service sometime in the future, unless they want to do something now. If they do, they can plan it and you decide whether or not to attend. Not invitations so much as a "here's the information, do with it what you will."

[bloomie]

monamurre - I am very sorry for this loss and the lack of support and love from your extended family members. It is a complex process - saying a final goodbye to a chaotic loved one. I am really thankful you reached out. I hope there is solace in knowing we uniquely understand and care!

I so get the odd radio silence at this time revealing the chasm and fractures within the family. In my own case, it also revealed how much on the outside I really was. That people who were quick to say they 'love me' were in the woodwork nowhere to be seen. That kinda settled into my bones after my parents passed. It took time to realize that this had been true for a really long time.

And once the rallying point that my parents and their crazy making world was passed there was really no familial connection there. Odd as this may sound I had been having a relationship with extended family that was based on those 'one big happy family' moments like you and others have described. I was naive at the least and manipulated by the best.

All of it worked to make me more grateful than ever for the FOC I had built around myself.

One thing I have observed that did come out of the recent lockdowns is the shift from the expectation that one have a some kind of larger memorial function for elderly loved ones who have isolated themselves like you describe your mother had. More and more folks are doing something small and private and even nothing at all. I hope if you choose to gather you will be surrounded by love!

[monamurre]

As I was falling asleep last night I had a sudden insight about why my two aunts have been completely silent since my mother's death. I will  probably never really know what is going on in their head but this is one plausible explanation.

Just before my mom died the aunt who lives the furthest away called me to confront me about not being "more involved". She was very upset and, although I didn't really want to discuss my deepest feelings with her, I felt I had to give her a real explanation to get her to leave me alone. So I told her the truth, that mom had been emotionally abusive to me most of my life, and sometime physically abusive. That the emotional abuse had only ramped up in the last year or two as she got sicker. And, that it was just too much for me to deal with. (I also pointed out that I was very involved - the only thing I hadn't volunteered to do was to provide 24/7 nursing care at home. And that I was the one that would have to spend weeks and tens of thousands of dollars cleaning up her hoarder property).

My aunt said the typical things, "Oh, I had no idea. I'm so sorry, etc." But, then hasn't been in contact at all since mom died a week ago.

Now I am realizing I may have broken some unspoken family code that exists throughout the extended family where you don't talk about abuse. My aunts grew up in the same house with my mother. They had the same very abusive mother and, I now realize, likely struggled with being functional parents themselves. Perhaps they duplicated the behavior my mother did with their own children?

Did the specter of a child rejecting a parent on their deathbed, because of abuse, hit too close to home? Maybe they have similar dynamics with their children and my admission about abuse was just too much to confront. So they are ignoring that situation, and by extension ignoring me?

Obviously it is still irking me and I wonder what to do. Should I confront them about their total silence? Its not like there is a hard and fast rule that you have to send condolences to the bereaved children. But, considering our level of contact prior to her death, it just seems so clearly a snub towards me, and at an already painful time. I kind of don't want to let them get away with it without comment. Thoughts?

[moglow]

Monamurre, I totally get your perspective here - y'all dont mind calling me out on what you think I should be doing [while having none of the facts!] but she passes and you can't make a simple phone call??? You may be on to something, they could be looking at their own behavior with dismay OR they may have known on some level that things "weren't right" at your house and there was nothing they could do. Who knows what kind of folderol your mother fed them over the years, what flat out lies and half truths they've been given and now have no idea what's fact or fiction.

I say these things because there were indicators at family gatherings years ago that my aunts and cousins KNEW, if maybe not the extent of it, they knew things weren't good at our house/with mother. There were awkward comments by a couple of my cousins during one visit, about how we didn't dare misbehave growing up and mother took that as compliment of her parenting. She laughed and bragged about how we "knew better, [she] saw to that!" right there in front of everyone. It really didn't occur to her that there was anything wrong with it. It still baffles me how she could possibly see any of that as funny.

A few years back I had a long phone conversation with one cousin who has been in mother's corner as far back as I can remember. She made some comments and asked questions that made it clear she'd been painted a whole other picture from the reality we'd grown up in and had with mother at the time. There was just enough detail and truth that confrontations over the years had clearly been shared with cousin, but it went way awry from what actually happened. She did tell me that mother openly laughed about things she'd said to me, things that cousin felt were way out of line and unnecessary. And mother had shared numerous screenshots from texts, so cousin knew what I'd said and mother's responses, or my responses to mother's. Cousin still tried to excuse her and never really acknowledge that mother's no different from who she'd always been, she just used a different medium [texts] to make her point.

I don't think there's anything for you to do here, is what I'm saying. I'd let them know of any future plans for a memorial service, if any, and let it go at that. They can do whatever they want with that information or plan a separate service if they want.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Monamurre, I totally get your perspective here - y'all dont mind calling me out on what you think I should be doing [while having none of the facts!] but she passes and you can't make a simple phone call??? You may be on to something, they could be looking at their own behavior with dismay OR they may have known on some level that things "weren't right" at your house and there was nothing they could do. Who knows what kind of folderol your mother fed them over the years, what flat out lies and half truths they've been given and now have no idea what's fact or fiction.

True. OR my take is that it simply does not compute. There is a wall of denial there and your aunts don't know how to live with your revelations. They don't know how to respond, and so, they just don't. I think a version of this happened with my husband's aunts. We got one "come to Jesus" email from one of them, on behalf of all, after NC with DH's parents, to which I responded with kindness and boundaries, and then... nothing. Christmas cards, birthday presents, every contact from them ALL just evaporated, even for their godchild. We did nothing to hurt anyone, and explicitly said we hoped to keep other family ties, and yet they only were willing to do that on the familiar terms that were harmful to us. The irony of preaching to us on the sacredness of family and then immediately pulling a disappearing act was apparently lost on them.

The interpretation of looking at their own behavior with dismay is therefore probably wishful thinking. If they really were doing so, one would think they would be immediately led to practice basic etiquette for offering condolences to the bereaved next-of-kin. That really stinks.

[Pepin]

The only bad blood really is that two days before my mom died, one of the aunts who lives far away got upset and lashed out at me, I think out of frustration that she couldn't do anything else about the chaotic, stressful situation. She called me to say that "the whole family thinks I should be more involved". It was brutal. She came at me in a way that was so astoundingly similar to my mother.

To me, this seems like a ploy to draw you back into the role of family scapegoat.  And since you stood your ground and literally said NO, family members are realizing that the dysfunction at play before your mother's death can no longer be.  Everyone has retreated and gone to their respective corners because the ring leader is gone. 

A similar dynamic played out with CN MIL's death.  It's been over a year and everyone has kept to themselves.  It has been radio silent.  When she was alive it was always: fix this, fix that, do this, do that, that is what she likes, that is what she wants, that is what she knows, blah, blah, blah, etc.  It was exhausting.  And the truth was revealed at her death about exactly who she was.  Everyone was her pawn whether she treated them nicely or not.  Embarrassing really....just goes back to something that I have always believed in that it takes just one person to ruin an entire extended family....and she did.  There will be no reconciliation with a number of relatives because there was too much damage. 

I am enjoying the peace and quiet.  Now I can focus on healing and living rather than just surviving.

[monamurre]

Update: well its been 3 months since mom passed away. I still haven't heard a peep from either of her sisters.  About a week after she died I texted all her siblings letting them know we would likely do a memorial service in the Summer when the weather was better. Nobody responded to that....nothing.

I am at a loss here. I don't know how to interpret their radio silence, but it is hurtful not to hear anything from either of her sisters. We were not super close before, but would exchange holiday cards, maybe chat on the phone once a year, visit if I was in town....things like that. I certainly expected some condolences or checking in to see how our family was doing with the loss.

I'm not sure what I am looking for....partly venting because it just seems so damn odd. Partly seeking advice about how to proceed with them. Should I just move on as if they don't exist and see if they ever get around to contacting me again? Should I let them know I expected some contact and the lack thereof was hurtful? There won't be a big hole in my life if I never see them again....but I guess I do want some sort of explanation for the lack of basic courtesy in this situation.

[moglow]

Imma be petty Betty here - i'd be hard pressed to not call them out at this point. Yes you had a difficult relationship with her but to not even offer condolences? No "honey that's a lot to deal with! Please call me if you need to talk"? Not even "is there any way we can help you"?? They sure didn't mind telling you what you should be doing before she passed.

I know, best to not point out any of that, nothing good would come of it. So i'm grumbling for and with you.

[monamurre]

Right?! I'm hung up on this because I feel like they are getting a pass on some really, really lazy/crappy behavior, and I want to tell them what I think of it. But, does me pointing that out do me any good? Or, just start a lot of unneeded headaches I could avoid.

Also, I really didn't expect them to offer to help or even a phone call, just a basic, "sorry for your loss text" would have been enough. Just acknowledge that it was a loss. Then to not respond AT ALL to my telling them about memorial plans.....that feels more purposeful than their not reaching out prior. Am I crazy to think they are sending some sort of message with that choice?

[FromTheSwamp]

Personally, I would interpret the complete lack of a response as a message.  So that's two of us. 

What you do with that depends on what you want.  If you want to never talk to them again, I'd take it as permission and go on with your life.  If they contact you later and ask what happened to the memorial, I'd say that since they didn't respond you assumed they weren't interested. 

If you want some sort of family relationship going forward, then it's up to you whether you feel you need to get some clarity about what the heck they were thinking with their behavior, and and if calling them out seems right and necessary then that's certainly reasonable, as long as you're clear that they might be jerks about it and blow up your family relationship anyway.  Alternatively you can decide to keep them in your life in a limited way, not confront them, and see if they add anything positive to your life.  It's perfectly okay to let it ride for awhile and just take care of yourself.  Having your mom die is a hard thing to work through.

[SunnyMeadow]

I would take the lack of response as a message also. After reading your first post again, they are ticked off about something. Who knows what your mother said to them privately about you. Everyone is quick to tell others what they "should" be doing without knowing all sides of the story. It stinks and I'm sorry monamurre.

I would want an explanation too. It could open up a can of worms though so I would worry about that. If you don't need them in your life, I'd be tempted just to put them behind me. They don't sound all that compassionate or caring.

[bloomie]

monamurre - it costs nothing and takes less than 2 minutes to respond to a polite message from their niece letting them know about a memorial service for their sister. It costs less than a few bucks to send a card of condolences to you and your family at the passing of your mom (a very big deal) their sister.

At the very least this is rude and ill mannered. And you had better believe it sends a message of a lack of common decency and loving kindness toward others.

If there is anything in you wondering if somehow you did something wrong, or deserve this treatment, I hope you know you do not. At all.

I no longer go toward dysfunction and an inexplicable lack of familial care and concern toward me and my family. I have learned to match the energy and interest this kind of nominal family member offers. You owe them nothing more. Your due diligence is done.

Something that stands out to me in this is that you have done right, to the best of your ability, by your mom. Despite incredible challenges. You have shown consideration and deference toward your mother's sisters at her passing. That is what good character and respectful behavior looks like. I hope you find peace in that knowledge.

You already have a lot of pretty traumatizing experiences on your plate to process and work through. I would think that it is a matter of asking yourself if confronting their radio silence would be productive FOR YOU no matter how, or if, they respond.

[monamurre]

Thanks for your kind words everyone. Processing my feelings over my mother's death has been complex and come out in unexpected ways. As usual this board helped me sort through what was really bothering me and how to address it.

What I needed was some clarity and closure. I needed to do one step more due diligence with my aunts to confirm their choices really were as shitty as they appeared before I could decide how to handle it. So, I did reach out with a text to both. I simply stated that I hadn't heard anything from either of them, including no response to my initial text about a memorial. I was now making plans for the summer and interpreted their silence as a lack of interest or availability to participate in a memorial, was that interpretation correct (paraphrased). Of course I agonized over this message....I wanted to tell them I was angry and hurt....wanted to rail about how easy it is to text a simple message, etc., etc.  But, I think I correctly surmised that they weren't going to have a discussion about difficult feelings. So, I just reflected back facts and asked for clarification about their involvement going forward (in the memorial).  I wanted to give them a final chance to address their lack of communication. Was it a mis-step because you were grieving their sister and possibly have other challenges going on? Or, do they really not care enough to make any comment about my loss?

Well, their answers provided the closure. One responded with a single sentence that her husband was now on hospice and travel wasn't possible (he is 85). Of course I am sympathetic to her situation and never expected her to make the cross country trip to a memorial whether her husband was ill or not because she is elderly, long trip, etc. But, she didn't take the opportunity to provide any kind words like, "I hope it is lovely" or anything.....very clarifying. The other aunt didn't respond at all. I reached out to a cousin to see if she is okay because I have other reasons to think there might be a problem going on in their immediate family. The cousin said everything is fine, they are in Hawaii for 3 weeks. Okay, that is very clarifying too.

Not the outcome I would prefer, but at least from here I can move forward. Bloomie you nailed it with this comment, "I no longer go toward dysfunction and an inexplicable lack of familial care and concern toward me and my family." That is exactly right....I can't explain their behavior....but I am clear that it doesn't work for me....so I am reducing any expectation for these family members and withdrawing my energy from our relationship. There is some grief in that....sigh....I now feel I've lost two aunts along with my mother.

[moglow]

I understand we're all dealing with stuff, and I'm glad you approached it with that grace in mind. Sometimes our burdens just force us to lose focus. Theirs... It sounds like it goes deeper, and that's sad. It may be their relationships with her were fouled as well but to drag it down on you with silence? Just know that's not on you at all.


Wishing you peace, Monamurre.

[monamurre]

Update for anyone still following this thread: I'm feeling victorious! Like a viking standing among the smoking wreckage of a village. I've laid waste to the pretense of a warm familial relationship and I did it on my terms. 

The second aunt replied to my previous message with some paltry nonsense about how she had a good conversation with my mom before she died and will cherish that memory (what that has to do with her lack of communication with me, I don't know). It lit a fire under me and I decided to let them have it with both barrels.

I finally got straight to the heart of the matter and told them while I didn't expect them to travel for a memorial I DID expect at least a text and that their lack of effort was disappointing and hurtful.

I let that sit for a few hours while I finished a work task. No response from either. So said the rest of what I was thinking, that I didn't see what sort of familial relationship I could have with them if it didn't even occur to them to text me when my mom died and that we clearly have different expectations of what "family" means. Then I blocked their numbers.

There was no relationship to lose and what was eating me up inside was that I was swallowing my experience in the name of manners, respecting elders, blah, blah, blah. This feels better. Much, much better.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Good for you!!!