Huh. So this is what acceptance feels like. It feels like ... nothing.

[moglow]

After all these years, I appear to have located my own little inner Shangri-La. I know, right??!

I got a random text from md a few days ago to "excuse the call" - apparently she was looking for my address and bumped the call button by mistake [what, it was too much for you to simply call? Maybe reach out to your child after you cut her off rather abruptly Christmas morning? No? never mind ...] And then I noticed she had indeed called earlier, left no message. Okay then.

Yesterday I received her card for my upcoming birthday. It wasn't a mushy gush profusion of wonderful daughter sentiments, thank goodness, simple straightforward, sending me much love and many more.

And I felt nothing other than a "that's a nice card." No undertones, no  hints or demands for "more", just an acknowledgement. So very different from birthdays past, and appreciated as such.

Do you acknowledge birthday cards or just accept them quietly and carry on?? Inquiring minds, ya know.


Edited to add: Saw lovely meme on fb after I posted this - "she had not known the weight until she felt the freedom" ~Nathanial Hawthorne

[Liketheducks]

I get those random texts from Mom as well.   I try to not read too much into them.   Perhaps she's coming from a place of..."pocket dialed...don't feel obligated to call back".   But, like most of our parents here, it probably a manipulation.   

I think you have to go from a place of your own integrity.   If you received a similar card from a friend or acquaintance or business, how would you respond? 
I acknowledge or quietly accept based on my need for safety at the time.    And, I've learned that they don't have to be answered immediately.   I sometimes need to get myself into the right headspace to respond and take care of myself.   

[moglow]

You think like me - I saw the text as a hint to call, like i should somehow respond to a hidden message. Nope, I'm good thx.


Mixed on the card here too - sometimes respond to them with a quick text or call, sometimes not.  I don't expect it when I send one.

[Liketheducks]

Mom has now organized several group chats.  One for me and my siblings and a second for all her grandchildren.   They're all random Happy Groundhog Day kind of stuff.   This is after radio silence from her.   I think it is a low risk bid for people to reach out to her, but it feels SO much like...."See, I'm being the good one and if you don't reach out in response then you're the baddie."   I told my DS to respond or not however he sees fit.  He's a young adult.   And, told him that if I need to get him removed, I would.   Of course, the grandkid group text was all done without the parents knowing.   
I've long thought that our mother's are somehow related.   They work from the same playbook.   

[moglow]

Ah the texting/chatting, funny you should mention that! Not sure mother has any idea how to group text, but she knows too it's doubtful she'd get much more than one liners if that from any of us, plus honestly she doesn't talk to anyone that much anyway.

Last year md sent out perky Valentines greetings to her sons, but not me [they're male after all and can presumably be snowed]. She and I had had a large dust up just a few days prior and she wasn't ready to make nice I guess. Interestingly, the day after she sent the perky to my brothers I got a spiky text from her about a doctor's visit that day: her blood pressure was elevated and she'd told him what happened between me and her [I'm sure that conversation was heavily edited, poor victim that she is - she claimed she hadn't slept in days etc]. "You wouldn't like what he had to say!!" Are you sure though, did he tell you to leave me alone maybe? I said to myself snarkily 

That playbook? It's a big one. And highly editable, depending on the receiving audience.

[Liketheducks]

Not to make light of it.....but it kind of makes me giggle.   

[moglow]

Well, she called last night, left a message. All perky as a bird, birthday wishes and she soooooooo hopes I have a good day filled with everything I could want etc. Who IS she?? I'm baffled. I get she's trying to lay planks for a bridge but why? Why with me and why how? Mus be really bored. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[notrightinthehead]

Want to add my birthday wishes. I hope you have a glorious year ahead of you.

[Sneezy]

Well, she called last night, left a message. All perky as a bird, birthday wishes and she soooooooo hopes I have a good day filled with everything I could want etc. Who IS she?? I'm baffled. I get she's trying to lay planks for a bridge but why? Why with me and why how? Mus be really bored. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Who is she?  What a great question and one that you will probably never get an answer to.  My mom goes through perky phases now and then as well.  I'm never sure why.  Maybe she thinks it is how she is *supposed* to act or maybe it's another means of manipulation.  I do know that my mom is an expert at compartmentalization.  Maybe one of her compartments is perky, happy old lady?  Usually I get to see sad, angry, victim mom so it always surprises me when I run into happy perky mom.  Just another mystery I suppose.

[moglow]

Yeah that intermittent reinforcement is a bugbear, Isn't it. You get used to the one and when this other appears -fake and fleeting though she may be- it's baffling indeed. I find myself peeking around for the hook, questioning what she wants. Birthdays the past several years she's been much more combative and angry, pushing for a fight. May she just now realized im not playing anymore - or *I* did?

And thx, notright! It's not an awful day 😊

[Blueberry Pancakes]

Hi Moglow. I am VVVLC with parents, and I do still acknowledge their birthday card. I do not acknowledge as soon as it arrives, and not on my birthday because I do not want to talk to them on my special day, but within a few days when I feel safe I send a brief message. If they reply back, wanting to chat, I do not respond or engage further. 

I think I actually do it from a deeply-ingrained, catholic school-oriented sense of manners (maybe obligation still?) more than genuinely feeling grateful.
     
Hoping your birthday is happy and bright. (Also, thank you for posting meme "not known the weight until she felt the freedom". Nice.)

[Cat of the Canals]

Well, she called last night, left a message. All perky as a bird, birthday wishes and she soooooooo hopes I have a good day filled with everything I could want etc. Who IS she?? I'm baffled. I get she's trying to lay planks for a bridge but why? Why with me and why how? Mus be really bored. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Why/Why Now: I know it sounds superstitious, but between my own mother and my MIL, I swear they have some sort of spidey sense that tells them when you have finally reached some place of acceptance, and lo and behold, out comes a fresh batch of manipulation tactics.

Perhaps something in your response to the whole "oh, I accidentally called you" thing gave her an inkling that you're reaching deeper levels of healing, and she can't help but start trying to reel you in again.

[moglow]

  That's kinda where my mind went too. Things have changed and underneath it all, she knows it.

I did call to thank her for the [multiple] birthday greetings, kept it short and polite and didn't really engage beyond that. For once I cut her short, really wasn't interested in conversation or pretending.

Vvvvvvlc does have its merits. 

[Sneezy]

That's kinda where my mind went too. Things have changed and underneath it all, she knows it.

I did call to thank her for the [multiple] birthday greetings, kept it short and polite and didn't really engage beyond that. For once I cut her short, really wasn't interested in conversation or pretending.

Vvvvvvlc does have its merits. 

moglow - How did you get to this point?  I would like to be super-vvvvvvlc with my mom.  I'd really like to get to where I feel nothing when she starts in with the manipulation.  Is it something that just happened over time?  Can someone use medium chill and boundaries long enough to actually detach from their abuser (because that is what my mom truly is)?  Just curious.  I feel like I'm getting there, but I'm still not as detached from my mom and her manipulation tactics as I'd like to be.

[Cat of the Canals]

Sneezy, I thought I'd never get there. I used to jump up and RUN to the phone when my mother called. I was expected to be available for a phone call at least once a week (actually, it was more because all I heard then was how once a week wasn't enough). When she dropped her little hints, I'd start scheduling a visit or a call or whatever it was she was demanding (always indirectly, of course).

One of the things that helped a lot was putting myself on a "mom diet" of sorts. I decided once a week was too much for me. So I started small. Instead of every 7 days, I started calling her every 10 days. After a few months, I pushed that to 14. Then 20. Most of the time, I now speak to my mother once a month. Sometimes it goes longer, usually when she's distracted with one of her activities. She also had a tendency to send obnoxious text messages on various platforms, so I blocked her on almost all of them.

I felt tremendously guilty at the beginning. I'd sometimes give in and call before the appointed time because I felt like I was being mean/punishing/etc. In my case, there was a clear turning point where the guilt almost completely vanished. I specifically asked for space after my husband's brother died, and she couldn't give that to me. (She more or less, in the same breath, said, "Oh, of course! But you'll need to call me on Friday.") The FOG was gone. I was done playing her games. She could accept what I was willing to give, on my own terms, or she could eff off, frankly.

So yes, I do think boundaries can get you there. But it does take time.

[moglow]

moglow - How did you get to this point?  I would like to be super-vvvvvvlc with my mom.  I'd really like to get to where I feel nothing when she starts in with the manipulation.  Is it something that just happened over time?  Can someone use medium chill and boundaries long enough to actually detach from their abuser (because that is what my mom truly is)?  Just curious.  I feel like I'm getting there, but I'm still not as detached from my mom and her manipulation tactics as I'd like to be.

Sneezy, I'm the poster child for doing it all wrong and keeping doing that long after the sell-by date! I think I just finally had enough, had taken in and done enough to myself that I had to stop. Like everything else, it's process and it can be a painful one even on the best days. Everything inside us pulls to connect and/or obey. Going against what we've been doing all our lives is hard and a very deliberate choice. Just as md chose deliberately and repeatedly to shut me down and disregard me, I had to be with my own choices. I'm not saying it's tit for tat revenge, not at all. I finally realized that when the same person says something enough and in a wide variety of ways, at some point we have to pay attention and respond [or not] accordingly.

Somewhere along away I started paying attention to what md was actually saying to me, not just her words but the actions that went along. I noticed that when she went silent, I felt better. When she wasn't stirring something, my stomach settled. In times of trouble or when I was struggling on any level, it never occurred to me to reach out to her. She could [and did] flatten me with glee whenever she saw a soft spot, then she'd throw it in my face later. We didn't *talk* anyway. There were countless ramblings of her and her medical/physical issues and then there was all her family gossip when she'd get angry that I didn't want to hear it.

But still, I realized I have no clue who she is, and I guarantee she has less about me. Her own child - No knowledge and less interest. One day she told me flat out that I was hard to talk to, that all I wanted to talk about were My thoughts and MY feelings and "all that crap." Said it on a voicemail, flat out like it was nothing - but she was angry that I'd tried to include her?? Angry that it was important to me that she see me? Angry that I didn't want to sit and gossip and laugh at people? Okay then. I stepped back some more, stopped sharing anything unless she specifically asked and even then I was guarded.

While that hurt more than I'd have expected, I had to face the simple fact that this wasn't new, she just said it outright finally. It wasn't her being elder and sick and in pain, that's who she IS, who she's always been. She's very bitter and angry and spiteful, and I wanted no part of it. But I hung in there thinking she's old and alone and who does she have. "She's your mother" guilt all over the place, while she continued to push everybody away. Countless verbal attacks over things I have no control, battering me with her limitless frustrations and aggravations. She'd go silent again and I'd regroup - and the whole time knowing how much better I felt without her stuff clogging my brain.

Basically though, I stopped calling out of obligation. I'd already learned that calling when I was "less than" was an open invitation to abuse. If it weren't a holiday or birthday wishes or I had nothing to share, I stopped calling. And she didn't call either, still doesn't. Big nails in the coffin for me were her doing much the same with my brothers. I realized it wasn't just ME. All those years somehow I made it okay to treat me badly [sounds so stupid even writing that] but doing it to my brothers? The ones who HAD been there with me all those years? She can't celebrate happy events even for them and her grandchildren without boiling it down to some ridiculous tantrum? Be a toddler then, waaaaaaaay over there by yourself.

It's boundaries, Sneezy, finally. It's deciding you're worth more and no one else gets to decide otherwise. When that impulse to pop off or answer that 4th call in three days on the same subject kicks in, stop. Take a breath. Is it needed? Is there anything you can actually do? Will it actually matter even tomorrow? I don't think you have to be completely heartless here, just make time for yourself. Whatever time you need. You don't have air or brain for her today? Swell, don't call. You made vague plans but found you're not up to it? Okay, call and cancel. People do it all the time, normal people understand completely and the world moves on. She throws down a tantrum? OKAY. Still her stuff. And may I recommend the silent option on your phone, maybe change "her" ringer to silent or have all her calls go straight to voicemail so you can return calls "later." Best part? You really don't have to explain one thing to her or anyone, you don't have to answer questions about it, you can gloss over all that madness with "oh my look at the time, I need to go! I'll call you on xyz mom Byeeeee!" You're still doing what's best for you.
 

[moglow]

Ha! On the heels of that writing, I see that she's called (months of silence and I suppose she feels all better, we're friends somehow?) This message? She's going to place an order with (meat and cheese company) and there's a particular something she wants to talk to me about. Naw, fam, we're good here. I love to play around with whatever in the kitchen, try new things, make from scratch. She... Does not. I know she's working with what she has, but still. Not my stuff. Place your order, do your thing.

[Jolie40]

Basically though, I stopped calling out of obligation. I'd already learned that calling when I was "less than" was an open invitation to abuse. If it weren't a holiday or birthday wishes or I had nothing to share, I stopped calling. And she didn't call either, still doesn't.

hi moglow
when my kid was a toddler, I took phone off hook during naps

guess when parent decided she wanted to call!
she could have easily called in evening when husband was home
so one day, she declares "I'm not calling anymore cause you don't answer phone!"
from then on, she only called once per year, on my b'day

so I had to be the one to call & she mostly talked about my other siblings who .....guess what....she called & spoke to EVERY day.....sometimes, I'd be talking with one sibling & she'd say "mom's calling" & have to go

in the end, when she was in NH, she had all our numbers written down
she got forgetful & would call siblings up to 50X/day not realizing she just called 5 min ago
they would complain all the time about getting SO many calls

how many did I get? 0
but at least I didn't get 50/day

she passed on in Dec
one sibling is super depressed about it
even tho she complained about no. of calls, she now misses them (she lives out of state & is lonely)

[Big Bear]

And I felt nothing other than a "that's a nice card." No undertones, no  hints or demands for "more", just an acknowledgement. So very different from birthdays past, and appreciated as such.

Do you acknowledge birthday cards or just accept them quietly and carry on?? Inquiring minds, ya know.

Hi Moglow,

I'm glad to hear that you're one step closer on the road towards "meh" when it comes to cards and things like that.  It can be a journey from being easily triggered to being at peace with getting stuff like that.   

When I get a birthday card from dear mother, I open it, hope that the message is briefer than last year's, look at the front for about five seconds, let my kids see it, and then quickly send it on its merry way into the recycle bin.  If it has a funny joke or cute animal at least the kids can enjoy the humor!  In my opinion, the less sentimental the better.  In things like this, sometimes less is more! 

Big Bear

[Cat of the Canals]

She's going to place an order with (meat and cheese company) and there's a particular something she wants to talk to me about. Naw, fam, we're good here.

PDmom and PDmil both do this. Feign "needing help" or "having a question" about something when they don't actually need or want your advice. My MIL in particular is famous for stating she Needs An Opinion only to reveal that she has already made all of the decisions. I think it's a ploy that works really well with people pleasers, because we Just Want To Help™, and this is such a simple way of being "useful."