Dad - "woe is me" when is you're wife going to forgive me

[p123]

Well, not until theres a cold day in hell to be honest...... And I don't blame her.

In conjunction with my FM brother they've both been awful to her in the past - long story. Dad inactions were a large part of it where he seemed happy to let brother swing at everyone in sight..... He forgets that.
He doesn't see my kids now. His fault. He never took an interest in them, they got bored going to see him. I really don't know what he expects.

Thing is hes STILL a nightmare. His behaviour/attitude is STILL the same. My wife wants nothing to do with him, its her decision and like I said its justified. I told him this but he seems to think I should be telling her shes got to let it go.

Umm nope. Not happening. I told him hes going to have to face the facts that hes upset her - I still visit him so thats that. For now - although he treats me just as badly....

What is it with them they think poor me? All of this is because of YOUR actions in the past...

[Call Me Cordelia]

When is she going to forgive you? Interesting question. Forgive you for what, dad? Think about it, I'll wait. 

[NarcKiddo]

Even if she does forgive him (and maybe she has) it does not follow that she should then want to spend any time with him. I think forgiveness is more for the forgiver rather than the forgivee. Hence why you can even forgive someone who is dead.

[p123]

When is she going to forgive you? Interesting question. Forgive you for what, dad? Think about it, I'll wait. 

Well in Dads mind hes maybe done one or two things where hes been "thoughtless" or mainly it was all my brothers fault rather than his.......

[p123]

Even if she does forgive him (and maybe she has) it does not follow that she should then want to spend any time with him. I think forgiveness is more for the forgiver rather than the forgivee. Hence why you can even forgive someone who is dead.

Well she has nothing to do with him now. Obviously, she doesnt sit there every day angry, she just has no wish to, as you say, to get involved or spend any time with him.

Apart from the specific events, a lot is also to do with his character, which everyone in the family knows about. Hes her father in law - he just cant comprehend how she cant be speaking to him. I can - its up to her, hes a right PITA on good days - why should she spend time with him?

Alas, in Dads past I can a LONG string of people (inc 2 ex-wives) who no longer bother with him becasuse of how he is. All you get from him then is "but but I didn't do anything". As I got older I saw this too and how much of a nightmare dealing with Dad is. Even for me - his son who always did his best to look after him and let things go hes treated me really badly.

[Call Me Cordelia]

When is she going to forgive you? Interesting question. Forgive you for what, dad? Think about it, I'll wait. 

Well in Dads mind hes maybe done one or two things where hes been "thoughtless" or mainly it was all my brothers fault rather than his.......

That was kind of my point. If that were true there would be nothing to forgive. At least no legitimate reason to be in this situation. So of course he feels within his rights to expect forgiveness. And thus, if nothing changes nothing changes. Denial isn't just a river in Egypt.

[wisingup]

p123 - I'm curious why he wants to see her now.  It doesn't sound like he's actually interested in her.  Is it just so that she's paying him the proper respect he feels entitled to?  Jumping through the expected hoops, as it were?

[Srcyu]

Why does he even mention her at all?
My guess is that he's still trying to abuse her from a distance. He's attempting to put all the blame on her instead of owning his own part of it. It's a handy thing to hit you with also - double points.

[hhaw]

My question to you, P:

Why do you continue to spend time with your father when you know he treats you as poorly as he treated, past tense, your wife?

And, why would your father expect your wife to return to abusive treatment rather than you to refuse coming back for more?

I understand your father's expectations and choices.

I understand your wife's/childrens' choices.

I'm curious why you aren't stepping away, with your wife, from your father's poor treatment, esp as your brother lives closer to him (if I recall that correctly.)

I'm not judging here.  I'm curious as to how you square that for yourself. 

[lkdrymom]

Would you be bold enough to say "Look, she just doesn't like you and would rather not be in your company".   If he did something wrong and she won't forgive him in his mind he is the victim.  I'm not sure how he could argue with her just not liking him because of how he behaves.

[Poison Ivy]

This is a thread that makes me think you're writing about my late father-in-law and me, p123. I did not see him for the final 10 years of his life, and I was otherwise VLC. I'm sure he considered himself to be the victim for most of that time. I considered him the victor, because he succeeded in pulling my husband (now my ex-husband) away from our home and family and installing my ex as full-time caregiver.

[p123]

p123 - I'm curious why he wants to see her now.  It doesn't sound like he's actually interested in her.  Is it just so that she's paying him the proper respect he feels entitled to?  Jumping through the expected hoops, as it were?

Oh hes not. Its all about power with him.

He thinks he deserves respect for no reason. And hates it when someone won't bow down to him.

[p123]

Why does he even mention her at all?
My guess is that he's still trying to abuse her from a distance. He's attempting to put all the blame on her instead of owning his own part of it. It's a handy thing to hit you with also - double points.

partly because he likes to have a list of people surround him with him at the centre....

Can guarantee he sits there some days and it annoys him.

He likes to think of himself as the best Dad EVER and best Christian in the world (because he reads his bible) - thats a joke too!

[p123]

Would you be bold enough to say "Look, she just doesn't like you and would rather not be in your company".   If he did something wrong and she won't forgive him in his mind he is the victim.  I'm not sure how he could argue with her just not liking him because of how he behaves.

I have - I told him things have been done in the past and this is the way she feels. No point arguing with me or anyone about it because its her decision and I stand by that, so please drop it.

[p123]

My question to you, P:

Why do you continue to spend time with your father when you know he treats you as poorly as he treated, past tense, your wife?

And, why would your father expect your wife to return to abusive treatment rather than you to refuse coming back for more?

I understand your father's expectations and choices.

I understand your wife's/childrens' choices.

I'm curious why you aren't stepping away, with your wife, from your father's poor treatment, esp as your brother lives closer to him (if I recall that correctly.)

I'm not judging here.  I'm curious as to how you square that for yourself.

Oh a lot has changed over the years....

He no longer sees my wife as I said. He no longer sees my kids (that annoys him too but, again, his fault)

I keep him at arms lenght now. Much lower contact than before. Should I be no contact - probably......

Does it annoy Dad - massively. I get extreme love bombing. He knows I dont want the relationship he wants.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Lovebombing? Him? From what you write I can't even imagine what that's like.

[moglow]

"when is you're wife going to forgive me"

Feeling a bit snarky today so bear with me, P123 - my standard answer would be along the lines of "I dunno dad, I'm sure you have some idea. Have you considered talking with her, asking her about it? No? Well I don't have answers for you." Then don't even try. You're not their middleman. Just as if she wanted to talk with him she would, if he wanted to talk with her he'd try. He wants to complain so that's what he does. Anything you do or say to the contrary just feeds that.

[Poison Ivy]

p123, I want to clarify that I don't think you're like my ex-husband, who ditched me and moved in with his parents and became their full-time caregiver. I think you're doing great at recognizing your wife's and children's interests in not being harassed by your father and at spending appropriate amounts of time with your family of choice.

[hhaw]

P:

I don't know if you "should" be in contact with your father, or not.  I have no idea.

If you joined your family in NC with your dad....what would that mean, for you?

How does that feel, to contemplate?

Why, in your opinion, do you continue relationship with your father? 

Be it rhetorical/answer on the board....Im curious if you're aware of your motivations.

I imagine there's some fear, obligation and guilt involved, but don't know.

[p123]

Lovebombing? Him? From what you write I can't even imagine what that's like.

Oh its very creepy indeed. He'll grab me as I walk past and give me a hug and tell me how good I am to him....

I noticed this started happening as I pulled away from him a little. Hes phsyically trying to pull me back I think.