Death by chili cheese Fritos

WearyLittleBird · February 10, 2023, 06:35:37 PM

I have been lurking here for a very long time. The current situation my mother put herself in is most unfortunate.

My ocd/hoarding/NM moved herself out of assisted living into an apartment ~1.5 years ago because she's "not that old". Since then, her health has deteriorated. She stopped taking all meds (including thyroid hormone needed for life) because she, "doesn't like pills". This was discovered when she passed out at my son's graduation causing a scene.

Since the graduation, she was diagnosed with orthostatic hypotension (likely caused by malnutrition). I discovered she has been living on margaritas and chili cheese Fritos for months - you can't make this stuff up.

She tells her doctors and everyone else her nutrition is great, despite bloodwork and weight loss saying otherwise.

I haven't see her in months because she won't leave her home and refuses to let me in. When I was last in her home, it was filthy. She doesn't like to bathe, stopped grooming, has bugs everywhere, and feces was all over the bathroom. She was also hoarding again (mostly trash). I offered to send in cleaners, but she refused. I'm guessing it's significantly worse at this point.

My brother and I consulted an attorney who said there is nothing we can do. I stopped talking to extended family because they don't understand. Her friends either don't believe me or tell me I need to "force her" to change. Legally, that is impossible.

I'm not sure what I'm looking for. Empathy? Humor? Someone who has been through this? I can see the obituary now. Former teacher's death by Chili Cheese Fritos... Anyone else here dealing with a ridiculous elderly family member?

hhaw · February 10, 2023, 07:19:20 PM

Hello, LittleBird:

As terrible as it is, accepting you have no control over your mother, her health or the state of her apartment will bring some peace, ime.

I spent 20 years trying to save my father from catastrophic healthcare choices then dealing with his cinsequences......and I didn't have to carry that responsibility is FEEL like I was. Dad did what he wanted and all my struggles accomplished nothing. Just.....ill spent worry and care, turns out.

Accept you have no power and go back to finding joy in your own life, is my advice.

You've done what you can. All the worry in the world won't change your situation, so skip the worry.

Poison Ivy · February 10, 2023, 07:24:07 PM

I'm not dealing with a ridiculous elderly family member, but I sympathize and empathize with you. Many people don't understand how difficult it is to get help for a person, such as your mother, who has a mental illness or cognitive decline. The general principle of protecting an adult's right to self-determination is okay, as a general principle. But in practice, it often has serious and even deadly effects.

I do have an elderly family member with health issues who doesn't yet want to move out of her home. But she hasn't reached ridiculous yet.

WearyLittleBird · February 10, 2023, 09:04:05 PM

Quote from: hhaw on February 10, 2023, 07:19:20 PM
Hello, LittleBird:

As terrible as it is, accepting you have no control over your mother, her health or the state of her apartment will bring some peace, ime.

Hhaw, I gave up a long time ago worrying about NM. I only offer to help where I feel comfortable and am this point just waiting for her to die. I'm just really tired of playing this game. I have a great life and just can't fathom why someone would live like that. I'm also dreading her death. I cleaned out her hoarded house and am not looking forward to seeing the current mess when her body is found.

butterflyrainbow · February 11, 2023, 04:29:41 PM

Hi WearyLittleBird,

You are not alone. I am currently dealing with my elderly mom, who is an organized hoarder. She told me the other day she started to go through some things and decided why bother? Leave it to ButterflyRainbow to deal with!

When my father died and she decided to move close to us, she had 8 months to get rid of everything she couldn't bring. She didn't get rid of anything. We ended up hiring an estate sales company to come in and go through everything to sell and what didn't sell, donate. She still complains that we made her get rid of XYZ. And now her little apartment we built for her is packed with crap she doesn't need or have the ability to use any more. And she continues to buy more stuff. The other day I presented her with a list of 35 large craft items I allowed her to store in my craft room and that I know she will never use up, and asked her to tell me which ones she no longer needs. She can't do the craft involved any more, except on a very small scale, so it should have been an easy decision to donate most of the items. But nope. Not her preciouses! She at first refused to get rid of anything and finally chose just 4 items. The smallest ones.

Also, my husband's sibling and nephew were garbage hoarders and he cleaned out after them a couple times because it was too much for his parents (they each lived with his father multiple times and then abruptly left). After the third cleanup he vowed he'd never do it again. It was a health hazard with human waste, animal waste and drug paraphernalia, garbage, old food, etc... Years before, when his sibling's home was repossessed, the mortgage company hired someone to come in and clean up, it wasn't left to family. It was reportedly horrendous.

Does your mother rent or own? If so, either the owner will have to hire someone or you can just let the mortgage company do it. You aren't obligated to clean it out unless you own the property or inherit it. In that case, are there any professional cleanup companies that you can hire to clear out your mother's place? In the long run, it may be worth doing that instead of clearing it out by yourself, especially if it is a health hazard. Just a thought.

NarcKiddo · February 12, 2023, 08:14:19 AM

In the UK you can report this sort of thing to the local authority adult social care department. Even if you as an individual do not have any legal authority to do anything about someone's living conditions, I think the local authority can step in if things have got out of hand and become insanitary.

If you have that sort of facility where you are then maybe that ought to be done. Otherwise you have done all you can and the attorney has confirmed you have no legal powers so it's out of your hands.

At least you are able to maintain a sense of humour. The title of this thread compelled me to read it!

xredshoesx · February 12, 2023, 10:05:16 AM

my grandmother (dad's mom ) who could best be described as a difficult, high strung personality lived her last years on vicodins, cheetos and black coffee. she was in her 80s when we became closer so i never saw her in her 50s housewife passed out on the divan after a combination of cocktails and tranquilizers but both my dad and his later sister have ZERO nice things to say about her from their childhood.

wisingup · February 12, 2023, 11:03:55 AM

WearyLittleBird - it is incredibly hard to watch people self-destruct. I watched my alcoholic dad drink himself to death and now I'm watching my uBPDm alienate everyone she cares about with her behavior. But if you read about the 3 C's in the toolbox - we didn't cause it, we can't cure it, and we can't control it. Cleaning up after them seems to serve only to create space for them to make a new mess.

Yes, these folks have seriously disordered thinking. And yes, there is very little we can do about it other than support them if and when they ever decide to seek help for it which neither of my parents ever did. What you can do is protect yourself and your non-disordered loved ones. And keep coming here for support and validation. Best wishes to you!

WearyLittleBird · February 14, 2023, 09:45:04 PM

Quote from: butterflyrainbow on February 11, 2023, 04:29:41 PM
Hi WearyLittleBird,

You are not alone. I am currently dealing with my elderly mom, who is an organized hoarder. She told me the other day she started to go through some things and decided why bother? Leave it to ButterflyRainbow to deal with!

When my father died and she decided to move close to us, she had 8 months to get rid of everything she couldn't bring. She didn't get rid of anything. We ended up hiring an estate sales company to come in and go through everything to sell and what didn't sell, donate. She still complains that we made her get rid of XYZ. And now her little apartment we built for her is packed with crap she doesn't need or have the ability to use any more. And she continues to buy more stuff. The other day I presented her with a list of 35 large craft items I allowed her to store in my craft room and that I know she will never use up, and asked her to tell me which ones she no longer needs. She can't do the craft involved any more, except on a very small scale, so it should have been an easy decision to donate most of the items. But nope. Not her preciouses! She at first refused to get rid of anything and finally chose just 4 items. The smallest ones.

Also, my husband's sibling and nephew were garbage hoarders and he cleaned out after them a couple times because it was too much for his parents (they each lived with his father multiple times and then abruptly left). After the third cleanup he vowed he'd never do it again. It was a health hazard with human waste, animal waste and drug paraphernalia, garbage, old food, etc... Years before, when his sibling's home was repossessed, the mortgage company hired someone to come in and clean up, it wasn't left to family. It was reportedly horrendous.

Does your mother rent or own? If so, either the owner will have to hire someone or you can just let the mortgage company do it. You aren't obligated to clean it out unless you own the proper owner.

I'm sorry you are going through this, too. We sold the house when my father was dying, and we gave away her dog. At the time, she let us do everything because she was so overwhelmed with my father. It took me months to go through everything, and I had to hire a company to haul away the junk and clean. I promised myself I wasn't doing it again.

NM now lives in an apartment. Her apartment manager did receive a complaint over the summer, and she hired a junk removal company to help her. I don't want to get involved with APS. Most likely, they won't do anything. (We had a similar experience with the agency and my grandmother.) NM left a ton of stuff behind at my brother's home. He has been slowly getting rid of it all without telling her. She can't go anywhere without passing out, so she may never know.

The last person in her apartment was a firefighter checking her fire extinguisher. Now I'm wondering if she actually set her place on fire and is lying about it. She wouldn't even open her door when I dropped off a gift.

bloomie · February 15, 2023, 10:07:10 AM

WearyLittleBird - there is nothing that really describes the heartbreak, frustration, and sense of abandonment that comes from bearing witness to a parent self destructing in this way. It is so painful and such a waste.

Seeing my own mother end her days this way hit me as the ultimate narcissistic discard. I could tell myself she was most likely PD and mentally ill, that she had a serious brain illness (and sure enough she did develop that), that she had suffered terrible, unthinkable abuse at a young age (and God bless her, she did). I could know all of that and have deep empathy for her in her suffering, but at the same time the reality was I had a mother who had shown herself to value fabulous things - all neatly organized and packed up just so, crammed in every nook and cranny of her home, over her family, always.

Hoards and hoards of pretentious belongings for the life she wanted and seemed to feel she was born for. The life we, her children had kept her from. Not the life she actually had.

She ended her days in a similar fashion to your mother. Eating junk, which she always preferred, but ate in secret, completely isolated living entirely within her own mind and surrounded by china and crystal, fur coats, shoes & matching bags that she was too incapacitated to use.

There was nothing that anyone could do about all of it. I know that, you know that, everyone reading this knows that. What is the crux, is the living reminder of our mother's utter brokenness. You said you are waiting for her to die. Yes, you are because in death there is possibly the hope of some relief for you and your sibling, and her, after the hoard is cleared.

At least for me, as long as my mother was living in this state there was the shadow of what she could've been, what we all could've been together and the bitter cup that nothing and no one was worth getting the help and medical intervention she needed throughout her life.

Like your own mother, mine closed the door to help and refused to let anyone inside. She had zero discernible concern for how hard her choices made the lives of those who cared about her. And that was true throughout her life.

I know that we say to disengage emotionally from this kind of thing and that is such good truth, but I could never entirely disengage from all of this. My head and heart were often at odds with each other and how could they not be? I wouldn't let a baby bird suffer this way, much less a human being, much less my mother. And yet, with a human there is very little we can actually do to get them in a stable living situation if they are able to still refuse.

This is extremely difficult and far outside of the norm of what many experience with their elders. Which can emotionally isolate us if we let it. Because how do you even describe it all in a way that others will understand?

I am thankful you trusted us and reached out and shared some of what you are seeing unfold with your mom. Here is a place where others do understand and we are here to support you.

Keep coming back and sharing and allow the understanding and compassion of this beautiful community of fellow travelers to lighten your load just a bit!

WearyLittleBird · February 25, 2023, 01:09:23 PM

Quote from: bloomie on February 15, 2023, 10:07:10 AM
This is extremely difficult and far outside of the norm of what many experience with their elders. Which can emotionally isolate us if we let it. Because how do you even describe it all in a way that others will understand?

I am thankful you trusted us and reached out and shared some of what you are seeing unfold with your mom. Here is a place where others do understand and we are here to support you.

Keep coming back and sharing and allow the understanding and compassion of this beautiful community of fellow travelers to lighten your load just a bit!

Well. It happened. I had a premonition she died this week. My oldest son and I went to her apartment and found her dead. She was naked, surrounded by filth/trash and empty tequila bottles. Her home is disgusting: clumps of hair everywhere, bodily fluids on the floor, walls, and furniture. There were probably 50-60 empty bags of Fritos/chips on her bed.

My brother called family to let them know. I knew she was spiraling and wasn't shocked about her death. Everyone else we know; however, had no idea she was ill. She told them she was better, and they believed her. Now I have people calling me saying she should never have moved, we should have done more, etc... No matter how much I explain her illness and poor choices, I still seem to be blamed .(I do think they are well-meaning but clueless.)

I don't want to have a funeral for her. People are already asking about a service, and I just don't want to have to listen to condolences and kind words about her. They just have no idea...

Poison Ivy · February 25, 2023, 02:19:48 PM

I'm sorry, wearylittlebird. How awful for you.

You don't owe anyone an explanation.

wisingup · February 25, 2023, 04:31:06 PM

WearyLittleBird - I am so sorry that you and your son had to experience that. What a terrible waste.

If you don't like planning a service, you should not feel compelled to do so. If others push back, you can encourage them to take the lead & let you know the details.

This had to have been a shock to your system & you deserve time to process & heal.

butterflyrainbow · February 25, 2023, 04:57:19 PM

Oh no, I'm so sorry Wearylittlebird.
Do what's best for you. Funerals are for the living, and if you don't want or need a service, then no one should judge you for that. I like Wisingup's advice.
Take good tender care of yourself, what you've been through is traumatic and heartbreaking.

Boat Babe · February 25, 2023, 05:38:30 PM

Goodness, that's just awful. I'm so sorry for you and your son. What a shock. I hope you get all the support you need and deserve right now. Let others talk; you know the reality of your mother's disorder. You owe nothing to anybody. I wish you peace and release going forward.

Outsiderchild · March 10, 2023, 06:32:46 PM

I think one of the changes the pandemic brought is that it is much more acceptable to say that due to the wishes of the deceased or their family that there will be no services or that the funeral will be private. For example:

To honor my mother's wishes, there will be no funeral service. I invite you to please privately celebrate (insert name)'s memory in your own ways. I know that she will be with us all in spirit.

Because if your mother had wanted a funeral she would have set the money aside and prepaid for it. You are not obligated to go through the expense to put on a farce of a funeral just for societal expectations.

Outsiderchild · March 10, 2023, 06:33:08 PM

I think one of the changes the pandemic brought is that it is much more acceptable to say that due to the wishes of the deceased or their family that there will be no services or that the funeral will be private. For example:

To honor my mother's wishes, there will be no funeral service. I invite you to please privately celebrate (insert name)'s memory in your own ways. I know that she will be with us all in spirit.

Because if your mother had wanted a funeral she would have set the money aside and prepaid for it. You are not obligated to go through the expense to put on a farce of a funeral just for societal expectations.

Poison Ivy · March 10, 2023, 06:40:38 PM

bloomie · March 11, 2023, 09:41:36 AM

WearyLittleBird - just catching this painful update. Words are truly inadequate for the pain of all of this and the trauma for you and your dear son. I am so very sorry and hope you will honor what you and your family need and want during the aftermath of this. Be ever so gentle with yourself and surround yourself with those who support you and not pressure you to meet their expectations.

xredshoesx · March 11, 2023, 09:44:57 AM

Quote from: Outsiderchild on March 10, 2023, 06:33:08 PM
I think one of the changes the pandemic brought is that it is much more acceptable to say that due to the wishes of the deceased or their family that there will be no services or that the funeral will be private. For example:

To honor my mother's wishes, there will be no funeral service. I invite you to please privately celebrate (insert name)'s memory in your own ways. I know that she will be with us all in spirit.

Because if your mother had wanted a funeral she would have set the money aside and prepaid for it. You are not obligated to go through the expense to put on a farce of a funeral just for societal expectations.

mod/ admin note- we see this is a duplicate post but it's such an important message we are leaving it so the people in the back can hear. well put, outsiderchild!