Father is gone...now what

PunkCroc · February 15, 2023, 03:40:04 PM

Hello everyone,

I lurk sometimes here, more than I post. Honestly because sometimes I am just really afraid to talk about what's going on, and it never seems to end. Sometimes I think I can really handle this myself, and other times maybe I need to admit I need more help or support than I thought.

Recently, my father passed away. In the middle of January, my sister told me my dad had gone to the ER. I heard from my sister because my mom hadn't bothered to call me. She texted me after I had already talked to my sister. Apparently my mom had texted her too. ...This woman TEXTED us that our father was in the emergency room with flu-like symptoms and difficulty walking, and a CT scan had found a mass at the base of his brain near the occipital lobe. Because that's...totally texting news right???

My mom didn't even ask me if I was busy, at work, if I was able to talk. Nope, just texted me. My sister showed me the text exchange between her and my mom, and it seemed like my mom thought this was some kind of joke. My mom had been saying my dad had he flu for a few weeks, saying it was "man flu." We'll never know how sick my dad actually was...

He was admitted, with the plan of removing the mass from his brain with the assumption it was benign. Further testing showed it was full blown cancer in his brain, heart, liver, and lungs. This, also, I found out from my sister because my mom didn't bother to tell me. I told her my work schedule (11 am-11 pm, I work in an emergency room myself.) She called me at 12:30 am when I was already asleep. And all she said was they had run more tests and "your dad is staying in the hospital." I got the rest of the news from my sister. My dad...he was just texting me normal conversation like nothing was happening. We all think he was just trying to have a normal conversation with one person. And that was me.

Two and a half weeks after his diagnosis, he died. My boyfriend and I got to see him before he passed. My boyfriend literally dropped everything with a day's notice and flew with me out to my home state. We arrived on January 20th, my father passed early morning the 23rd. He was so ill, he didn't look like my dad anymore. I helped him in the hospital with ADLs (activities of daily living) because he was too weak to do things for himself (I'm in nursing school and I work in a hospital so it was no issue for me.)

It's been hard enough to deal with learning he truth about my mother's narcissism over the last few years. Her blowing all their money, losing a few houses because of not paying bills, multiple subpoenas for non-payment of credit cards, taking out cards in my dad's name, forcing him out of retirement, and actively preventing him from moving to Florida. Realizing how toxic the golden-child vs. scapegoat dynamic she'd built between me and my sister was. But that all compounded with how she behaved during my father's illness and death.

The first thing she said to my BIL when my sister and her family arrived was "Now I can get rid of the pontiac!" my dad's car. My parents had a set of recliners, and one of them was broken, which of course was the one she had my dad using. He was having trouble getting up and walking as it was, but having more trouble just getting out of that damn broken chair. And for who knows how long she actually made him struggle. She refused to switch because "I don't want the broken one." My sister and nephew switched them when she was out of the house. My BIL found her phone, and we saw several text messages from him saying he felt sick and needed help, or he couldn't get up and needed help, all ignored. We found out from a family friend she did this on purpose. Our friend felt so badly about it, she told my sister, with tears in her eyes, that my mom told him "Stop being so dramatic" and "Quit being a martyr." Why? "Well because he didn't help me when I was injured!" Which is 1) Not true and 2) Such a selfish and cruel reason to abandon your sick husband. (My mom had a work-related accident back when she was a respiratory therapist. She both won her worker's comp case, and was NEVER dying. I remember my dad caring for her as best he could, and her being an absolute nightmare to deal with. Yelling at everyone who wasn't waiting on her hand and foot, and accusing all of us of not caring enough when we got tired of being screamed at.) We also learned when my dad had eye surgery, she told him not to come home for recovery, and made him go to my 97 year old grandmother's house.

This woman was sitting on her phone scrolling facebook while my dad lay in a hospital bed begging for water. She just looked at my sister and said "Why aren't you giving him water?" You're his wife ...why aren't you?

The night he passed, she was in the hospital bathroom curling her hair. My sister and I were sitting at his bedside. She was curling her hair. For who????

My sister says once all the affairs are settled, she's going full no contact. It's going to be easier for her, because she's had this negative relationship with our mom for a lot longer, known the truth for longer, and has suffered being the scapegoat child. This man told us the reason he smoked for so many years (which was the cause of the cancer...it originated in his lungs and spread from there) was because my mother made him so miserable, it was his only way of feeling any escape or relief. He wanted to leave for years. He was afraid. It's hard enough to leave an abusive relationship now as a woman, imagine how hard it is when you are from an older generation, and a man. He also didn't leave because he was worried my mom would end up in a cardboard box. Which honestly would entirely be her fault. We told my dad we would take care of him if he left. My sister said he could come live with them in Florida and they would take care of him. But he stayed to support my black hole of a mother. And it literally killed him.

Me, I don't know what to do. I know my dad missed seeing me graduate with my first bachelor's because of her. He will not see me graduate nursing school now. Before he died he told my boyfriend "Marry her. Or I'll haunt the f*ck out of you." (He had a sense of humor, and he liked my boyfriend.) He will not be there to see that happen. My mom is barely speaking to me right now. And she keeps posting on facebook about their "love" and how he was "the love of her life" and it sickens me...because I know how awfully she treated him, how she took everything from him, and how trapped he felt.

I just don't know what to say to her. She still thinks I don't know the truth. My sister says that's to my advantage. It is I guess, but I don't know how I'm going to tell her that I know. I don't want her at my future wedding. I don't want her near my boyfriend's family (they sent me a nice handwritten sympathy card) and I just don't want to have to be around her lies anymore. I'm also having so much trouble believing this is real.

moglow · February 15, 2023, 03:59:09 PM

Holy - wow. I'm so sorry for your loss, and that you had to see how she treated him with him so very ill. I know you can't unsee that and you don't have to. You don't even have to tell her that you know, just maybe tuck that information away in your pocket. You can use those things as reinforcements for whatever you feel is best for you at this point. You have your own grieving to do and you can't do that in her shadow, whatever demands she may make in the next days/weeks.

Your mother is going to be who she is and soak up all the "poor widow who lost her love" for as long as she wants. Unless I miss my guess, just as suddenly that may all go away and it'll be like it never happened at all. Whatever happens, hers is not yours to manage. Honestly, you don't have to be around her or any of her stuff - you can carry on without her in your bubble. Surface polite, go through to get through where she's concerned and keep on going. And fyi - her thoughts or opinions on your wedding have nothing to do with anything. She may or may not be invited, as you choose. I woudn't discuss it with her. The less you share, the less you have to explain or try and justify.

PunkCroc · February 15, 2023, 04:40:14 PM

I just don't know where to start with this. My sister and BIL already know what they are going to say and when they plan to do it. I wish I were that prepared.

I thought about creating conditions. Like she has to clean up the house if she ever wants to see me again. My mom has clearly spent a lot more time blowing money shopping and god knows what else, and shoving my dad out of the house at every chance, because it was absolutely unrecognizable to the house I grew up in. I remember being yelled at on a weekly/daily basis to clean up this room, that room, vacuum, sweep, etc. I don't know when my mom stopped giving that much of a crap about how the house looked, because the woman who yelled at me to keep the house clean didn't bother to do that herself. It was a hoarder house. I was stunned and embarrassed for my boyfriend to see it. I couldn't call it my old home, because it was so far from what that was. There was no clear path through the house, and it was such a mess I could not find ONE Funko pop that I had bought my dad that I wanted back. It gave me anxiety and I had to take a walk while my boyfriend tried to assure me he'd seen worse. I didn't even get to see my old bedroom. I couldn't get to it.

I thought about saying this year for birthday or christmas, I want nothing. No gifts, no money, I want her to clean out the house. Get a trash hauler, ask for help if she has to, but I will not come back to visit as long as the house remains the mess that it is. My sister is certain she won't do that. If she doesn't, then I guess I have a reasonable excuse to stop communicating with her that she self-created. If she does though, then what?

moglow · February 15, 2023, 04:52:53 PM

I recommend you start at the beginning - given what you now know, do you want to see her? If not, address that first. You don't *have* to, if that's your thinking. You don't have to choose sides or pretend she didn't treat your father badly, but you also know he's not the only one. You have no assurance she won't turn on you next. Are you where you can handle that? You could set a timeframe for very limited or no contact, then revisit it later if you choose. Or not. It's entirely your choice and you don't have to explain it to anyone.

PunkCroc · February 15, 2023, 06:19:32 PM

Given what I know...and how she's actually been with me for the last few years...no I don't feel like seeing her. I've had a somewhat better experience with her than my sister has, but I realize that is because I was the "golden child" and my sister was the "scapegoat" and half of that better treatment is because I moved out of state and my mom was able to just tell me whatever versions of things she felt like because there wasn't anyone immediately around to tell me otherwise, and I wasn't there to see what was really going on. So most of my adult relationship with my mom has been based on her lies. I only started finding out the truth when there was a problem with one of my tuition payments for nursing school, and my BIL helped me pay it off. I was told "don't tell mom." When I asked why not, that's when the damn broke.

So I feel guilt about wanting to cut her off, because of the "good" moments I've had with her, but I also know those good moments are mostly a sham. She came to my graduation of my first bachelors, by forcing my dad to stay behind to work when he was supposed to be retired. When an abusive boyfriend put me out with almost no furniture my mom bought me a bed...with my dad's money. When she told me about a trip she went on to visit my sister...she was talking about a trip that happened more than three years ago because they didn't want her to come back. ...I thought I had built a better relationship with her but it was just...deception, manipulation, lying...it makes me feel like she thinks I'm stupid.

I'm afraid of what will happen when my sister and BIL drop the bomb on her. She is likely going to either play victim to me, or she will take it out on me. Either way, it's going to blow back in my direction. I've decided whatever she tries to do, play victim or explode, I'm going to tell her I am grieving in my own way and I am not going to be put between her and my sister on top of this, and I won't have the conversation, then just not respond.

That's about as far as I have thought into the immediate future. Beyond that, I don't know.

xredshoesx · February 16, 2023, 05:40:02 AM

here's your worst case scenario-

the golden child gets the treat of taking care of the aging parent.....

my DH is the oldest of 5 living children. he told his mother 'mommy, i will always take care of you' when he was 4 or 5 when his dad left and my MIL has held it over his head ever since every time something in her life goes south..... to the point where she was in MY kitchen telling me how she was going to live in MY house 3-4 months a year when she wasn't in the southwest..... we are minimal contact with her since that blow up when i got to be the bad guy and tell her in no certain terms would she be the one to decide she was living in MY house. she defriended me at that time and gave me the silent treat through a holiday cycle and a half....... i also think she's still pissed at me we didn't come to her wedding during covid when she got remarried.

i've been almost NC with my mother 30 years. this is not our first round of NC either, it's just the one that lasted ( i gave her a second chance twice when i was a teen and young adult). let the physical distance between you be your friend right now as you make your decision.

PunkCroc · February 16, 2023, 11:26:43 AM

I talked with my sister about that yesterday. I'm concerned she is going to start bugging me for money once I graduate and start a job as a nurse. She already bugs my sister for money all the time (my BIL has two very well paying jobs and they are more than comfortable.) She doesn't currently bug me for money because I don't make that much right now and couldn't help her even if she did ask.

I can't help, my sister won't.

I don't want to help in the future because the money I earn in my future career is going to be for me and my partner to have the life we want, not support her inability to budget herself.

My sister said she still plans to cut her off after everything with my dad's stuff is settled, but she said she wonders if her reasons will have less weight because she waited instead of saying what she wanted to say immediately after his death and not now. She also says she feels guilty because cutting her off will put a greater burden on our aunt and uncle to have to deal with her.

I said there is going to be blowback on me too. We agreed she will probably both play victim AND come at me aggressively. We decided, whether she is actually going to get help or not, I am going to tell her I want a period of NC. If she wants to be in my life after that, there will be boundaries she must respect, including cleaning that house and getting help. My sister says she will never admit she has any problems, which is likely she won't, but if that's the case then she can be her own reason I never come back to visit.

All this is easier said than done. It's what I want to do, but how she reacts is the thing that will be harder to deal with because it's always so volatile.

moglow · February 16, 2023, 11:28:38 AM

This could be where you get to separate the triangle your mother may have built up in her mind - you don't have to pick sides between them or even listen to any blather about your sister. If you and your sister choose to discuss the situation, that's between the two of you. If she wants/doesn't want to talk with your mother, between the two of them. Same with you and your mother.

You can't be put in the middle without your consent. It's going to be hard to undo that habit, I know, but you don't have to listen to any of it. A well placed, "that's between you and sis..." then subject change or end the conversation altogether if it continues. I don't tell mine anything about my brothers anymore, she'll drop hints but I go with "far as I know all is well" then change the subject. I'm just not going there - she can talk to them herself or not. Not my stuff.

moglow · February 16, 2023, 11:34:19 AM

That volatility is hard, I know. You don't know how high it's going to blow or how long it'll last, just that it will. I'm guessing she'll push and push before then, playing nice. You don't even have to tell her you've graduated or your plans, as far as that goes. As my brother says, she can't get your goat if she doesn't know where it is.

Y'all should understand, your reasons aren't likely to matter to her. She's going to paint it however she paints it, with or without you. Your option is to not participate in her ugliness or whatever stories she decides to tell. that's ALL on her.

Go ahead and think through possibilities and come up with plans to implement if needed - does she live nearby, would she drop in or show up? Would bf meet her at the door, let her know she can't stay there but xyz hotels are in town? Do you have financial ties that need to be cut, joint accounts etc? Do you owe her money and if so can you maneuver funds to pay her back asap? Just a little pregaming, you know, so she can't snatch the rugs from under you.

Ya know what brings me joy though - you and your sister talking it out, something I bet your mother micromanaged away for years. It makes me happy for you, that you have and are building that now.

looloo · February 16, 2023, 12:00:36 PM

Just want to suggest that you consider this possibility:

Maybe you weren't the Golden Child as much as you were the Dutiful One, maybe ignored much of the time because your self sufficiency, resiliency, and general low maintenance. Maybe I'm projecting my own self, but I just want to throw that out there 😀.

You were held responsible for providing her with companionship and support of all kinds, it sounds like. You were the adult in the room, I suspect. You had to consider her feelings and her reactions to EVERYTHING, ALL THE TIME. Even when you weren't at home, you were still the glue trying to keep the crazy together.

Anyway, maybe as you begin to figure out the level of involvement you want with your mother going forward, it'll help if you consider your role from a different angle...

PunkCroc · February 16, 2023, 10:15:32 PM

No, I wasn't ignored. I was treated better than my sister. I had more privileges than her, and my mom bragged about my accomplishments, sometimes to my sister's teachers. My sister was definitely the scapegoat. Yesterday she expressed to me she feels like she's an "irredeemable screwup" to our mom and there's nothing she can ever do that's good enough. I didn't know how bad it was between my mom and my sister partially because of my mom just treating me better.

I do carry a feeling like I have to be constantly performing at 100% or I'm not good enough. I'm working on my third degree, second career change, and it's in the healthcare field, which is what my mom did. But I feel like somehow that's still not going to be enough. I have to keep going upward to be worth it. I get very stressed when I'm not being productive. I know this is from my mom. I was treated well as long as I was "performing" to her standards. I have a significant memory when I got a D in a class, which the teacher admitted to both me and my mom was a mistake in his gradebook. I still got screamed at and slapped twice for getting a low grade. She was more than happy to brag about me as long as I was performing and meeting her standards. Our relationship started to get a lot rockier as I got closer to moving out because I was starting to be someone that didn't fit her image of what she wanted. It improved when I moved out because there was enough distance for her to be able to tell me whatever she wanted without anyone else to counter her versions of things. But now that I know the truth about her, and other people's experiences with her, I see how unfair and toxic it is, and I feel like she thinks I'm stupid and easily manipulated.

My sister wasn't able to finish a business degree at a community college because my mom sabotaged her. She's never really given my sister credit for anything she does. There was nothing she could do that would please my mom and so eventually she gave up trying and just decided to live her own life. She agrees with me it has always been a golden child/scapegoat dynamic, but she doesn't blame me. We used to argue a lot when we were younger, and I think it's because of that. But since we're adults now, we can see it was our mom triangulating.

Pepin · February 17, 2023, 01:46:48 PM

Quote from: PunkCroc on February 16, 2023, 10:15:32 PM
No, I wasn't ignored. I was treated better than my sister. I had more privileges than her, and my mom bragged about my accomplishments, sometimes to my sister's teachers. My sister was definitely the scapegoat. Yesterday she expressed to me she feels like she's an "irredeemable screwup" to our mom and there's nothing she can ever do that's good enough. I didn't know how bad it was between my mom and my sister partially because of my mom just treating me better.

I do carry a feeling like I have to be constantly performing at 100% or I'm not good enough. I'm working on my third degree, second career change, and it's in the healthcare field, which is what my mom did. But I feel like somehow that's still not going to be enough. I have to keep going upward to be worth it. I get very stressed when I'm not being productive. I know this is from my mom. I was treated well as long as I was "performing" to her standards.

Reading this.....is definitely a CPTSD response. While you may have been treated better, it was still abuse. What sort of privileges did you have that your sister didn't have? And was it because you were a better student? And were you not being ignored because you were being parentified?

I see how it is confusing about being the GC. I waiver over this with my DH-- because he seems like the GC. He is actually the HERO child. He's the over achiever, straight A student that took care of his parents because he thought they needed the help. He wanted to make their lives easier because he thoughts their lives were hard. Terribly parentified. His poor siblings were compared to him nonstop for not being able to do what he did. Yeah, he was treated better because they relied on him. They gave him things for what he did. The things that he did though never should have been done by him as they were the responsibility of his parents. His parents lacked maturity.

foobarred · February 21, 2023, 09:34:39 PM

First, condolences on losing your father. I lost mine in 2005 to lung ca with brain mets, and it's rough.

Second, I was a GC. When Dad died, PDMom went directly from leaching off him to leaching off me, the "Good" Daughter. I wasted 17 years of my life pouring all my time and energy into that black hole. Do not be me.

I think your instincts to take a step back and create space for yourself are spot on. With the death of your dad, and the NC of your sister, she will be *desperate* for supply. Especially after all the sympathy stops pouring in. As the GC, you have been programmed from birth to provide that supply on demand. So my prediction is she will push all your buttons, and and do her utmost to spin you in, because you "owe" it to her, for all the "privileges" and "special treatment" you got. After all, she "did everything" for you. And "nurses are supposed to be *caring*". And she "has nobody else" *sniff, sniff*.

It's almost like dealing with an addict. You want to rush in and save them from themselves, but really you're just enabling them. You try to set boundaries, but they just roll right over them and act insulted that you put them there in the first place. I wish I'd cut my mother off cold turkey years ago - I did her no favors, and wrecked myself, trying to shield her from the consequences of her actions.

Best of luck, and I hope you take all the time and space you need to grieve your dad. So sorry you have to deal with all this PD sh*t on top of that.

PunkCroc · March 01, 2023, 10:10:36 PM

QuoteReading this.....is definitely a CPTSD response. While you may have been treated better, it was still abuse. What sort of privileges did you have that your sister didn't have? And was it because you were a better student? And were you not being ignored because you were being parentified?

Sorry I took a minute to reply, I have been trying to work more to recover lost finances from the trip. It's also been nearly impossible to get my mom to do anything she needs to do. My keepsake urn necklace with my father's remains in it was ready on Feb 6th, and she only just sent it today. She also told my sister she's "still loving to Florida, just later." Which is...laughable because she actively tried to stop my dad from moving there and refused to do so. She only started looking at houses after the threat of divorce (which we really wish he'd followed through...)

Anyway, my sister wasn't any worse of a student than I was, my mom just didn't really care much about anything she did. My sister really loved singing and participated in choir at her high school. One memory that sticks out in my mind was after one of my sister's choir performances, my mom approached her teacher and started telling him how good of a singer I was. I didn't even go to that school but my mom was talking me up...at my sister's performance. She said absolutely nothing about my sister the whole time.

I also remember my mom buying me a cell phone at an earlier age than my sister had, and she said "Don't tell your sister. You'll be more responsible with it than her." ...I barely used the damn thing. It was turned off more often than not. I heard a LOT of "don't tell your sister" when being given privileges. But clearly my sister did know this was happening. Especially when we reached our teen years. My sister began to suffer from severe depression and our relationship got very rocky. Whenever I sang, she told me to shut up. When she saw me in a new outfit, she would tell me I looked like a ho. She would try to shut me down in conversations in front of her friends with "My sister thinks she's knows everything..." She also argued with my mom a lot more frequently. I saw her in our back yard crying with my dad's arms around her.

Knowing what I know now, I can see why she was so angry with me. When our mother does nothing but talk about how great I am academically, when she's just as good but gets no credit, or brags about me and ignores her, or constantly hears our mom tell me "don't tell your sister but..." (my mom was not as secretive as she thought...or maybe that was on purpose) I can't really blame her for lashing out, even though it was at arguably the wrong person. But as a child and a teenager dealing with depression, it's understandable.

That all being said, I wasn't immune to my mom's rage. Stepping a toe out of line caused screaming, raised voice, and as a teenager, being slapped in the face. As long as I stayed in line I was her GC.

QuoteIt's almost like dealing with an addict. You want to rush in and save them from themselves, but really you're just enabling them. You try to set boundaries, but they just roll right over them and act insulted that you put them there in the first place. I wish I'd cut my mother off cold turkey years ago - I did her no favors, and wrecked myself, trying to shield her from the consequences of her actions.

This is exactly how I feel. And unfortunately I think this is how my father felt. He was so miserable, but he didn't want to leave because he knew what would happen to my mom, despite it being her own fault. And yes, I am finding it very difficult to not want to try to help. "Mom, you have a shopping/spending addiction and you need to get help." "Mom, I really think you need to see a therapist." "Mom, I am concerned about..." but it's not like others haven't tried to tell her this too before, and gave up. And I am aware of the disproportionate treatment of me and how this can drain me and drag me down like it did my father. But it tears me apart trying to set these boundaries and pull away.