I don't even know where to start with this. Tw death.

[easterncappy]

I had a therapy appointment at 2pm today, and my therapist texted me that it was canceled because he was sick. Well I ended up being glad that it was canceled, because by 3 pm, there was someone ringing my door bell and pounding on my door. My baby woke up screaming from her nap, my dogs were barking nervously, and my heart was pounding. Who could it be? My mother and some woman I've never seen before (I suspect it was one of her friends I knew *of*, who she'd talk about often). I don't answer the door and I call the police. She knows not to show up. I also called my husband and he rushed home. The police show up after she leaves. They tell me that I should consider a restraining order and to call them back if she returns. Okay.

Well guess who's back in 30 minutes. My mom and this strange woman who I've never seen before. I call the police again. Everyone shows up within one minute of each other - the police officer was just hanging out outside of our neighborhood, I guess, lol. I tell him that I am not speaking to my mother no matter what. She scares me and I don't know who that other person is.

"Your mother came here to tell you that your dad passed away". Huh? My husband immediately pointed out that it was likely another fabrication of my mom's to get our attention.

I called for a welfare check at my parents' house in another county. They went and talked to my mom and she confirmed he did really die of a stroke this morning. But how crazy is it that she whittled my trust down so much that I wouldn't even believe her about my dad's death?

I cried for a little bit - not because I'm sad he died, in fact I feel relieved to know that he can't ever hurt me again, and that he can never hurt my daughter. But I'm sad that he didn't ever get better. I do not regret going NC. I am just sad that despite my prayers and efforts to get them to see the way they hurt me, one of them died the same as he always was. I wonder what will happen with my mom. She can't afford that place all by herself - nor any of the nice shiny things in it for which she traded my dignity and safety ("I can't leave your dad, don't you want nice Christmas presents? I don't want to work full time"). I wonder where she will go. If she will even stay in the country. If she will survive this.

Should I reach out? Some are telling me yes. Some are telling me no.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Nothing about this situation makes her any safer for you or your child than when you went NC. On the day she loses her husband she decides to go barging in where she knows she is not welcome and gets the police called on her twice, for good reason. You do not trust her as far as you can throw her. She will not stay thrown without the intervention of law enforcement. She scares you.

You cannot make her okay.

Well done on handling that awful scenario. Please take such good care of you and baby.

[Andeza]

She's still the same person. His death is not a magical transformation for her.

I'm sorry that at a time when you should be able to mourn a healthy relationship now ended, it's this complicated nonsense instead. None of us would have to go through that, especially not with people randomly showing up pounding on doors.

It'll probably be a few weeks before you feel calm at home again, just take it as easy as you can with a little one. It's okay to cry, or not. It's okay to be upset in complicated ways. *hugs*

[notrightinthehead]

This might be a good moment to slow things down.  And give yourself time to explore what you really want to do. Do you want to be involved in the funeral? Do you want to look out for your mother now? What do you want to do? And will that be good for you and your family of choice?  Loss leaves us with many contradictory painful feelings and it's good to wait for some clarity of mind to make decisions. So give yourself enough space to re-gain that clarity after your tumultuous encounter with your mother.

[Leonor]

Hello Easterncappy,

Oh my god, what a frightening show! The award for most dramatic mamma drama goes to yours!

Can I just take a minute to note how outrageous and self centered and abusive it is to barge into the home of a young mother with a stranger in tow to announce the death of her father? How about going to therapy, sitting with friends, getting your own dang self in order, and then gently inviting her into a warm space to tell her very softly and with kindness and understanding that her father has passed, and then keeping that position of nurturing and compassionate witness as she goes through her own initial shock and grief? That's normal. That's what normal moms do. But oh no your mom has to find a way to "top" someone else's fatal stroke. There's no emoji for the sky high level of defcon WTF for that one.

Good for you, mama bear, for standing your ground and not letting that nonsense cross your threshold, with your baby upset and your doggies barking.

You shall not pass!

As for your father's passing, it is normal for all kinds of feelings to bubble up over time, and that is because you are a normal person. It's like a little mountain spring (sometimes spouts, sometimes geysers) that make us human. Tend to you during this tumultuous time.

As for funerals, planning, mom arrangements ... Yeah, I'm on the big fat to the No on all that. What could that possibly bring you but more exhaustion and stress and upset? What happy memories will you share in community? What kind demonstration of love and empathy will you experience? What generosity and mothering will you receive? That is the point of wakes and funerals and shiva ... to surround the bereaved with warmth and love and strength and empathy and resources.

So surround yourself with warmth and love and strength and resources. Cuddle with puppies. Swaddle up with Baby. Lean on DH. Go to therapy.

[easterncappy]

Thank you for the responses. I'm still processing everything.

You are all right - it was bizarre of her to try to let me know this way. I thought about what I'd do in that situation. Perhaps I'd have someone else call my daughter, or I would send a letter with a copy of the death certificate. Or even a text message saying "I need to talk to you about a family emergency" - although that sounds like something my mom would lie about, so I don't know (she's the one who got it to the point where I don't believe a word that comes from her! I've posted about her crazy lies and attention seeking tactics enough on here!). I would not show up at a house I've been repeatedly told not to show up at. What the hell? I want to give her the benefit of the doubt and say "she was traumatized from watching someone die of a stroke and suddenly become a widow and wasn't thinking straight". But she always makes everything about herself and as my therapist says, lacks the proper judgment to have a healthy relationship with her daughter or anyone else and has always done odd, out-of-place things.

My husband reminded me of all of the times my dad would threaten to beat me, hurt me, "come up here with a gun" and shoot my husband, kill my husband, etc. and all of the times my life was actually threatened by my dad, one example being the erratic drunk driving and speeding on our way to school. And my husband reminded me of the story I told him of my dad climbing into someone's apartment when I was little. So my fear was for a good reason - at the time I called the police, both times, I had no idea my dad was dead. I thought he was with my mom and I kept texting my husband that they're here and they're going to hurt me and hurt the baby and if he shows up, they'll hurt him too. I genuinely feared for my life. I wasn't thinking about any of this when I was panicking - I guess it's just burned into my brain that it's the kind of crap my parents do and my reaction is automatic and I don't even have to think about it to get it started. And that makes me think "it's not me who got it to the point where I am terrified of my own parents".

My husband also said "she's the one who screwed it up to this point - if she was a nice mom, she would have left your dad when you were little, when the severity of his behavior couldn't be ignored anymore, and if she ended up a widow, you would have taken her in. But she screwed it up to the point where her only family in this country calls the police on her if they see her outside of their house. That's on her". And it makes me feel better. Of course I don't want her to suffer. I don't want her to be homeless. I don't want her to die of stress or not having enough to eat. But this is the same woman who got our relationship to this point - I am not responsible for her.

It's hard finally shifting the blame for everything from myself to my parents. The "G" in FOG is there for a reason. I was raised up to think everything is always my fault. To always feel bad for them. To never consider my own feelings. But if it was up to me, none of it would be this way and I wouldn't have parents who I have to be terrified of like this.

[easterncappy]

Someone tell me if I'm being mean here:

My mom had every opportunity to leave my dad. She almost always made more money than him, and if she wasn't making more money than him, she had the ability. She was better educated than he was and much better at holding a job in the long term. So this wasn't a real reason why she wouldn't leave. I hate to use the cliche but she's very capable of being a "strong independent woman". My therapist said she likely has dependent personality disorder. At which point, this crap is not my problem. She can't be helped because people with personality disorders almost never get help.

We had many conversations about his behavior. She continually denied it or pretended it wasn't a big deal. She'd threaten to leave, especially if the transgression triggering threat this was against her and not me. But everyone knew she'd never do it. If the behavior affected me, the response was everything from victim blaming to telling me to suck it up because he's the reason we have nice things (because God knows every kid is willing to get molested for a DS lite, right?).

She was warned multiple times that his health would catch up with him. The guy smoked two packs of cigarettes a day, drank 6-8 beers with each other beverage having a considerable amount of vodka, never drank water, and acted like vegetables were poison. Not exactly a shocker that he had a stroke at 50.

And it's not my job to fix any of this for her. She could have seen it coming from a mile away. I know I've been trained to think it's my job to clean this mess up for her, but it's not. She did this to herself.

[bloomie]

easterncappy - I am in awe of your quick thinking and strength in the face of a traumatic and terrifying attempt of invasion of your safe and private world. Truly standing on my chair cheering you for the presence of mind and resolve to call for help twice when faced with such danger. Let that soak in for awhile. You are fierce and equipped. You defended yourself and your loved ones, your home, even though you were afraid and caught completely off guard. Wow!!!! I want to be you when I grow up!!!!!

Once the cortisol dissipates this encounter seems to have opened the floodgates as you process the audacity, malignant self centeredness, emotionally ineptitude and immaturity that is your parents' life long choices and their impact on you.

This is a time to be extremely gentle and compassionate with yourself. To sit with little easterncappy and remind her she is safe, loved, true, and worthy.  You have punched your ticket to the side show of your parent's inexplicably toxic dance between them and have already experienced enough pain and disappointment, betrayal and their terrible behavior from these people. You. Owe. Them. Nothing.

It sounds like you have one really great partner. Go hug him and hold that precious little one close and do not let one single solitary potential future problem of your mother's overshadow a moment of your good and valuable life.

I know it is compelling when anyone, even a stranger, would crash into our peaceful world in this way. There was no urgency or emergency going on. Someone who lived at a distance had died. I imagine like you and so many others of us here, I have been groomed to meet another's urgency and toxic energy and act to help. Instinctively. That you had the presence of mind to slow your roll and not open that door is inspiring and telling. You are strong. And you will process this in your own time and way, work though it, and put it all in it's proper place. The rearview mirror.

Every single one of us is responsible to clean up our own messes. Even your mother. 

I am going to add a resource that has been validating for me working through childhood trauma and abuse as an adult. The work of Patrick Teahan is a bit different than other resources for me because he is blunt and gritty and a powerful voice of advocacy for adult children of childhood trauma. And something about how straight at it he goes is a healing balm. Because we know... as evidenced by this outrageous, histrionic, attention seeking, ignorant behavior of your mothers', this doesn't stop in childhood.
https://www.youtube.com/@patrickteahanlicswtherapy

Keep sharing. We are here with you!

[NarcKiddo]

I am sorry for your loss, even if that loss is simply the loss of any chance that he will ever try to make things right.

Wishing you peace as you navigate this situation.

[Cat of the Canals]

And it's not my job to fix any of this for her. She could have seen it coming from a mile away. I know I've been trained to think it's my job to clean this mess up for her, but it's not. She did this to herself.

You're not being mean, and I would repeat this to yourself daily over the next few days/weeks/months, because I anticipate your mother will try just about every trick in the book in the near future to set you up as her caregiver.

Though I doubt you even need that advice. I am continually amazed at how you've handled things with her thus far.

[PunkCroc]

Reading all this, no you're not being mean. She could have left, she could have survived without him. But as you said, she stayed for selfish reasons that affected you negatively long term. He's gone, that does not make her your responsibility, nor does it make her any different of a person. Especially since she decided the way to tell you was to bang on your door with a stranger.

His death doesn't magically wash away the things he did to you, nor does it magically change your mother into the compassionate and caring person she should have been to you. She did what she came to do, tell you. She can go back now. And maintain the NC that made your life better.

[SonofThunder]

easterncappy - I am in awe of your quick thinking and strength in the face of a traumatic and terrifying attempt of invasion of your safe and private world. Truly standing on my chair cheering you for the presence of mind and resolve to call for help twice when faced with such danger. Let that soak in for awhile. You are fierce and equipped. You defended yourself and your loved ones, your home, even though you were afraid and caught completely off guard. Wow!!!! I want to be you when I grow up!!!!!

Once the cortisol dissipates this encounter seems to have opened the floodgates as you process the audacity, malignant self centeredness, emotionally ineptitude and immaturity that is your parents' life long choices and their impact on you.

This is a time to be extremely gentle and compassionate with yourself. To sit with little easterncappy and remind her she is safe, loved, true, and worthy.  You have punched your ticket to the side show of your parent's inexplicably toxic dance between them and have already experienced enough pain and disappointment, betrayal and their terrible behavior from these people. You. Owe. Them. Nothing.

It sounds like you have one really great partner. Go hug him and hold that precious little one close and do not let one single solitary potential future problem of your mother's overshadow a moment of your good and valuable life.

I know it is compelling when anyone, even a stranger, would crash into our peaceful world in this way. There was no urgency or emergency going on. Someone who lived at a distance had died. I imagine like you and so many others of us here, I have been groomed to meet another's urgency and toxic energy and act to help. Instinctively. That you had the presence of mind to slow your roll and not open that door is inspiring and telling. You are strong. And you will process this in your own time and way, work though it, and put it all in it's proper place. The rearview mirror.

Every single one of us is responsible to clean up our own messes. Even your mother. 

I am going to add a resource that has been validating for me working through childhood trauma and abuse as an adult. The work of Patrick Teahan is a bit different than other resources for me because he is blunt and gritty and a powerful voice of advocacy for adult children of childhood trauma. And something about how straight at it he goes is a healing balm. Because we know... as evidenced by this outrageous, histrionic, attention seeking, ignorant behavior of your mothers', this doesn't stop in childhood.
https://www.youtube.com/@patrickteahanlicswtherapy

Keep sharing. We are here with you!

 

Damn bloomie, that was powerfully written, and such wisdom!  +1

SoT

[xredshoesx]

you are not being mean and in no way does his death require you to reconsider or break your NC with your mother.  she made her own bed.

holding you in my heart tonight.  i'm not quite sure how i'll react when i find out about the death of either of my parents. 

[easterncappy]

Thank you for the replies everyone. I am really scatterbrained and have been in all sorts of bad and weird moods since Wednesday. Again like always, I am sorry I can't reply to everyone individually.

I hate that I did this, but I did stalk through some Facebook profiles connected to my mom and people she knows to figure out who the F showed up at my house with her... I mean, in my defense, it's useful information. What if they show up again? At least now I know the name of the woman, the car she drives, and I could probably figure out a few more things if I needed to speak to law enforcement again.

It turned out it was the same woman who offered to help my mom commit mortgage fraud. My husband got a much better look at her than I did, and I showed the Facebook pictures to him, and he said it was her. Oh and another time, they were going to commit immigration fraud together. This was a really long time ago, but I remember my mom having me speak on the phone with her, and basically being *told* that I was going to do bizarre money drops for them with a strange man off of the interstate (for the mortgage scam I think?), about an hour from our house. I declined and my mom got really upset with me... looking back, it was weird how she was willing to let her daughter participate in an illegal scheme involving meeting up with male strangers far from home.

Anyway, all of that aside, *that* is who my mom went to after my dad's death. Yikes. I'm almost expecting more BS from them now that I'm piecing more of it together and realized exactly which crazy lady my mom showed up with. I didn't even mean to get into it here but... yikes just yikes. I had to explain to a very well-meaning friend who had a very normal and healthy upbringing why my mom's friends are all mentally unwell like she is, and he said it made sense.

That all being said, I haven't cried much. Just when the police called me back and confirmed that my dad really died, for about 30 seconds, and all I did was look at my husband and say "he was bad but he was still my dad and I hope he doesn't go to hell". I tried to force more tears last night when my husband was at church. I couldn't.

One way I've explained this to a few people is that when a person is grieving the death of a loving and caring parent, the process is very linear. It's happened millions and millions of times in human history, it's a well known process with specific steps that almost always happen a certain way. It's sad, but ultimately a healthy and predictable expression of emotions. This? It's not predictable. It's not linear. I don't have anything to compare it to. I don't understand a lot of my feelings.

Another reason I have to stay away is that I would end up just being my mom's therapist again. I've done enough of that for several lifetimes.

Sorry this is all over the place. Bleh. My brain is literally TV static.

[Andeza]

Another reason I have to stay away is that I would end up just being my mom's therapist again. I've done enough of that for several lifetimes.

^ This. Exactly this is why my DH informed my uBPDm that my Dad had died. They had been divorced for years and had virtually no contact, so it was us or nobody. She was informed, we left, haven't seen to or talked to her since. Sent her a copy of the certificate so she could apply for benefits, the rest is up to her. I stayed NC after because I can't imagine listening a hundred million times to "I hoped we would get back together." No thanks.

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi easterncappy,

So much good advice here already. What I'm seeing in your posts is familiar to me as well, and I learned that what we have with our immature parent is a trauma bond.

This bond - it came from being told that we had to take care of our immature parent. Children of healthy parents are not forced to bond to their parent in this way. But we were.

You know this in your mind and in your gut. It shows in your writing.  That bond is very strong because it is part of the attachment system - which as we know, can be activated even when our mind and gut and brain are all well versed in FOG and how it all works.

It is that old trauma bond to our toxic parent that questions whether we should swoop in and rescue our adult parent (yet again).

Because early in life we became the parent.

In your case, you are still feeling anxiety around how to let your mother parent herself. This is the legacy of daughters of narc mothers. It is very understandable given how powerful the trauma bond is with our mother. We grew up seeing how few skills our mothers actually have for figuring out their own lives. It is hard not to feel guilty about 'abandoning them'.

But you are not abandoning her. She's an adult who should not use her daughter as her rescuer.

What I can add to the suggestions here is to watch Patrick Teahan videos that affirm what you actually experienced with this woman (your mother). I have found that having someone on a video affirm this for me, helps me through the times where my brain is "tv static" as you describe (good description by the way!). Hearing someone talk about narc parents helped me when I felt that pull to go rescue a narc relative.

I found this video to share with you. At 10:48 he describes the narcissistic parent in detail.

I think you'll be reminded of some of the things you endured and survived as a result of your mother's behaviours.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfmYPvOIXtg

You wrote that you would "end up being your mom's therapist again". This is what I experienced and survived as well as the daughter of a toxic mother. She was an adult who could go get her own therapist, but instead would use her own daughter as her therapist. Patrick Teahan calls this emotional incest. Yes she has many many problems and many unmet needs. She is responsible for going and getting some resources to help herself. If she can't, she can't. You've done MORE than enough already to point her in the right direction in her own life.

She has her own path to walk in life, and sadly, it never included being there for you, protecting you adequately, and taking care of her problems so she could become the parent you needed. This feels so harsh to say. But in knowing what you've done to heal yourself, I just think that you know this, and that you know that you can't actually rescue her from the life she has.

You are a parent now, whose journey includes showing your child what love and protection feels like. I am so sorry that you didn't get that love and protection when you were growing up too.

My mother would still be demanding that I rescue her (which is toxic) if I were to allow it. You are doing the right things. Think of all the times when you tried to help your mother solve some of her problems, only to watch her do the same dysfunctional things yet again. Remind yourself of what a toll it took on you. I hated being my mothers therapist. It was awful.

Your energy needs to stay focused on you, your needs and your family (DH and baby). Protect your energy.

Wishing you much strength at this time.

Hugs,

Trees

[easterncappy]

Trees, you're right.

I foolishly reached out to my dad's sister, knowing that her and my mom have always had a strained relationship and have talked maybe four times in the past 20 years, to tell her that her brother died. My dad's sister has never done anything to wrong me, despite my knowledge that that part of the family is toxic as well, so I figured she deserved an explanation of why her brother wasn't answering the phone anymore. She said that my mom did reach out. I also got a message earlier today, saying something like this (paraphrased and translated - don't worry, no one can Google this): "Your mother already spoke to me and let me know. We also talked a lot about her plans for the future, which I will help her with, because she was left all alone. She needs your support now more than anyone else's".

Well now I know not to freaking talk to that part of the family either.  I was just trying to be nice.

It would be so perverted and inappropriate and all-around bad for me to be her therapist right now, which is what "your support more than anyone else's" means. Like. I don't really want to comfort her through the death of the man she allowed to abuse me because she wanted leather jackets and a nice couch. I'm worth a lot more than that, sorry.

But that message was all I needed, funny enough. I'm almost glad I sent it. My mom has basically recruited my dad's sister, who she barely ever spoke to, to be a part of the Cappy's Mom Pity Party Club. She's clearly learned absolutely nothing from 6 months of No Contact, and hasn't even begun to consider that some part of this might be her fault and perhaps even stems from 25 years of both of them treating me like absolute garbage. No, poor thing needs my support more than anyone else's! Screw what Cappy needs or wants or what happened to her for 25 years! And the implication that I am supposed to be comforting her through the death of someone that has mostly brought me peace, relaxation, and a tiny bit of sadness (due to biological reasons - he was my primary caretaker as a baby, after all, and we are wired like that).

Bleh. She's not ready. I doubt she ever will be. And my dad's sister lives in another country, so I assume she's going back if my dad's sister is helping her plan things for the future. Note how I say dad's sister and not aunt - I don't really have a relationship with her.

Good. Freaking. Riddance.

[SonofThunder]

Easterncappy,

Im so very sorry you are dealing with all this, and my condolences on the loss of your dad. I just left a reply on another comrades thread about the emotional agony of the push-pull in these relationships.  I feel for you.

I believe PD's are underdeveloped, therefore they are incapable of manufacturing what we hope they will develop, which would allow them to 'learn'.  Its almost that they are a different species of human, with limitations in these areas, yet I desire them to act in a way that their species is incapable of achieving. 

Wishing you the best in this difficult situation,

SoT

[Leonor]

"Your mother already spoke to me and let me know. We also talked a lot about her plans for the future, which I will help her with, because she was left all alone. She needs your support now more than anyone else's".

Holy flying monkey, Batman! That message is a masterclass in FOG inducing manipulative nonsense.

So basically after getting no supply from you, your mom turned to her SIL to tell her all about - not the passing of her brother, not the plans for his funeral, not even their shared grief as women peers, and certainly not about how to support you as a new mommy in the wake of her father's passing, which is a serious life milestone double whammy - but how awful you are!

Good for you, for seeing right through this and tuning her out as well. Actually, if you look past the guilt traps, the information is solid: mom turned to a peer, reconnected the relationship, and who agreed to help her with planning her next life steps.

As for the tone of the message, well, please allow me one moment to tap my baton and commence this evening's Tiny Violin Concerto:

.

[easterncappy]

Thank you both for your responses.

My therapist said I'm further along than many people who are estranged from their parents. I don't really think so but I will say that everything I know and have put into practice is because I read about it online. It was websites like this that taught me the whole thing - that my family was abusive, that there was something wrong all along, and how to deal with it. Having read dozens of other people's stories of their estranged parents showing up to their house and them learning from the process what they actually should have done or being told that they did everything correctly was central to me being able to handle this. It's one of the reason these communities are very important. If I haven't seen this exact same scenario give or take a couple minor details play out on these kinds of websites dozens of times already, I may have very well opened the door and invited the drama back into my life. Or maybe I would have never left the drama to begin with.

Although, I do think that if it wasn't for my daughter I would have crumbled under the pressure. Becoming a parent does something weird to your brain. I wasn't even entertaining the idea of going NC before she was born. I wanted it, I just didn't think I was capable. Second she was born it became really easy to tell them to leave me the hell alone. Back then I wouldn't have been able to imagine calling the police on my mom twice in one day, either. It feels really good to know that even though I'm not where I want to be, I've made progress.

He also asked me why I think my mother is dangerous - he wasn't disagreeing with me, he wanted to hear my take on it. I said it's because I know she still has a lot of power over me and could draw me back in. I can act tough but I was panicking and crying when it was all going down. Obviously she would be able to rile me up really well if I actually spoke to her. All logic and what I've learned goes out the window the second I'm talking to her.

I have so much work left to do. But I will say she got me good for a few days. I was feeling so bad for her - poor thing watched her husband die of a stroke and is all alone and can't afford the apartment and car and blah blah blah and "needs my support more than anything". I no longer really care what happens to her. I had to put it in perspective. She's the reason I'm going to need therapy for the rest of my life and she didn't care how her actions would affect me at all. My husband came home from work and knocked on the sun room door that only locks/unlocks from the inside - and I immediately panicked and went to thoughts of last Wednesday when my mom and some random woman were trying to get into my house. Thanks, mom... another PTSD symptom to wrangle.