Struggling with boundaries

[cik]

I'm still living with my mom who is a Queen/Waif with Parkinson's added on top. Although I feel the main driver of her behaviour is fear of abandonment when I move out, as the Parkinson's specialists recently told her that she's doing great and is the same as she was 12 months ago.

As I said I'm going to be moving out- theoretically I could go right now but September at the latest as I'm starting a training course. I'm pretty good at handling her when I don't live with her, but while I'm still here on a 1-1 with her I'm so exhausted (I was forced back a couple of years ago thanks to the pandemic). She's stopped seeing friends, taking care of herself, getting out etc. and then goes on and on at me about how bored she is, how she's 'not capable' of doing this and 'not capable' of doing that. When I point out that she was literally doing said things a few months ago she accuses me of being harsh. When I say 'no I'm not doing that because you're capable of doing it for yourself' again it becomes an argument about how cruel and unhelpful I am.

I tried talking to her calmly, saying I'm not going to just leave her and I'm happy to help her out if she's struggling but that it would mean a lot if sometimes she called a friend, or went to one of her social groups instead. She smiles and nods then goes back to her usual acting out. I know I enable her every time I say 'yes' but it's so difficult when I'm living under her roof on a 1-1. I have no life of my own I just accept that it's not going to happen until I start my training. But if I'm not careful she'll drain so much of my energy that I won't be able to mentally cope with flat hunting, the demands of training etc.

Any ideas for short-term counters would be much appreciated.

[clockworkorange]

clk,
I have so much empathy for your situation. I have come close to being in your situation. My mom has suggested that I live with her several times but I backed out, thank goodness, or I would be in the same situation. Money is a factor because narc parents intentionally infantalize their children and don't teach them life skills like how to manage finances, etc. So I have struggled in that area. I'm trying to make friends, too. Can you join some online groups in your area? Also, do you have a lock on your bedroom door to keep her out of your room and establish boundaries literally? Have you located an apartment yet? Have you saved the money for a deposit? Sorry, don't mean to pry, it's just that I can totally relate to your situation as I almost was in your situation and hope you make it out. Godspeed.

[WhereImAt]

I mean, she's trying to assign responsibility for her behavior and life to you, and you're trying to put it back on her, and she's lying to your face and guilt tripping you. From my experience, it's best to point out her responsibility, and her actions, don't listen to her words, her actions tell the truth.

Part of having boundaries is about not taking on stuff that's not yours, that you're not ready or willing to take on. Or that you've exhausted all options and you realize the person is being irrational about it, so you stop trying to work with them on that front. Also, when dealing with an irrational person, it's best to have some sort of consequences, to enforce the boundaries. For instance, if you say "I am not going to talk to you about what you're doing with your life, if you're not going to take responsibility for your own wellbeing and happiness, and put some effort into it", and if she ignores that boundary, you can have consequences, which you can tell her, if you want.

Some of the best consequences, with people with NPD or BPD or w/e, is to #1, reaffirm the boundary, If it gets heavily ignored, you can say "I expect not to talk about that", that's a pretty firm thing, that can be hard to learn. But some others are spending more time with yourself, you could say something like: "Look, if you're not going to do more for yourself, I'm going to spend less time with you, as it's not good for my mental health to often be around someone who is letting themselves fall apart and putting it on me, I love you mom, but I can't save you from yourself". Another great consequence that is a good trump card is to walk away and/or ignore. With my Covert NPD Dad, it always puts him in pander mode, as the worst thing you can do, is give them no attention, as attention feeds their supply. (I use this when I absolutely need to for my mental health, or if dealing with him is a dead end)

It's hard to do for a couple of reasons, because it's hard to stick to your guns and not get sucked in by sympathy and guilt trips, and other nonsense, and because it's hard to not focus on something you're so used to focusing on.

[moglow]

She's stopped seeing friends, taking care of herself, getting out etc. and then goes on and on at me about how bored she is, how she's 'not capable' of doing this and 'not capable' of doing that. When I point out that she was literally doing said things a few months ago she accuses me of being harsh. When I say 'no I'm not doing that because you're capable of doing it for yourself' again it becomes an argument about how cruel and unhelpful I am.

Don't let it be an argument - she's an adult who apparently IS capable and choosing to NOT? She's upset about it? Okay. Then she can sit there, you still have things to do and places to go. You don't have to be her entertainment committee. Telling the truth is harsh? Asking she do what she can when she can for herself is somehow cruel? Okay then, she's choosing to give up. You're not her maid or nurse. If she needs more care, maybe you could suggest she look into that. Because eventually you will move out and reestablish your own life, as all adults must do. That she's choosing to relinquish hers really isn't yours to manage.

Boundaries for me aren't talking it or explaining over and over  - it's something you DO. Damned if I'm going to argue over it. Maybe invest in noise cancelling ear buds or head phones and make that your happy place. If you don't hear it, not your problem. 

[cik]

clockworkorange: Thank you and in answer to your questions, I've been reluctant to join groups as I'm not staying in this area but have recently begun looking as I realised even temporary stuff is a positive step. I have enough money saved for a few months but need to find a job alongside my training. Ideally it would be best to move in September so I have my training schedule and can find a job that fits around that. But moving earlier and finding a job before September isn't out of the question, it just might cause schedule clashes.

WhereImAt: Thank you for your suggestions. "I am not going to talk to you about what you're doing with your life, if you're not going to take responsibility for your own wellbeing and happiness, and put some effort into it" is exactly how I feel. I don't use the walk away/ignore tactic often enough, that definitely needs practice.

moglow: Thank you, and good point. I do have headphones and noise cancellers so that would be easy enough to do.

[moglow]

It's an adjustment, so give yourself time as well. I suspect like many of us you were trained to jump when she says and fix it, so you think that's your job. You can't always and *aren't supposed to* - you have your own life too, separate from your relationship with mom. And yeah, even temporary meet ups or activities are better than nothing, will boost you and you can see what truly interests you, expand your circle regardless.

I'm digging the idea of ear buds with Caribbean steel drums playing while you clean house! You're smiling and dancing around, happy in your world without commentary. 

[clockworkorange]

clk, good for you! I encourage you to keep planning and think of your own life. You can love your mother and put yourself first at the same time. The reason I backed out of moving in with my mom is I think I realized on a guy level that I would lose myself if I did. Don't let it happen. Find and keep yourself. Once you get your own space, you will be so happy!

[cik]

I suspect like many of us you were trained to jump when she says and fix it, so you think that's your job.

Exactly. When my narc dad started having affairs I had to look out for my mom and younger sister, then for a few years my sister became old enough to share mom with me, then she became a clone of our dad and went LC with the two of us meaning I've gone back to the sole carer role and our mom is more clingy than she was before since she's worried I'll do what my sister did. The whole situation started 20 years ago so as you can imagine I've been trained to play my part well, and in many ways I have fleas.

So yeah I accept that this is going to take time to break out of. I can't wait to move because physical space is such a game changer, I know from experience. No time like the present to practice some of these suggestions though

[Spring Butterfly]

It may be her knowing you'll be leaving is driving her behavior to show you she is incapable of living alone and needs you as full time caregiver. Whatever the case or motive, here's some tips.

- "because" and what follows is not a boundary, it offers a reason and invites others to discussion (aka argument)
- offering any reason for the action you state you are taking only opens it up for others to help you overcome the obstacle so you can do the thing they requested. It's human nature and offering reasons only invites trouble.
- she does not need to agree with your stated action or your refusal to meet her demand
- a simple "no I won't be able to" is a boundary
- she also does not need to like it
- with real boundaries there is no discussion because you simply state the action you are taking or declining to meet a request / demand

It sounds harsh and difficult. I was in my late 40's and not living with them and yet completely controlled with no clue what a boundary even was. It wasn't part of the family dynamic for me to have any. My job was to take care of everyone and do whatever was asked without question. The thought of saying no wasn't in my vocabulary. The idea of even making my own schedule to suit me was foreign and my counselor had no idea why someone in her late 40's not living at home wasn't able to make appointments to suit her schedule.

I share that to let you know it's possible to do and also so you know where I'm coming from. It's not without understanding how difficult boundaries are that I share what some might consider a harsh approach.

Did you agree when you moved in to be her full time caregiver? Is there a way to move into more of a roommate role or at least view yourself that way? Can you begin to disconnect with love? Reassuring her you love her even though you cannot say yes to her requests / demands? Things like "be assured I love you but I can't do that for you" or something similar?

Honestly if something were to happen to you tomorrow how will she survive? I started to think of it that way with my loved ones. Seriously I'm not serving their long term best interested by making them completely dependent on me. That thought scared me into realizing I was actually harming them. They need to function without me and I had to begin to back out of my role. It helped me see what I chose as love even if it meant they were mad at me for that choice.

[cik]

I can relate to the schedule thing completely. I've always worked out what other people are doing before making my own schedule so there's no clashes (this behaviour was learned from my family but I do it with non-PD friends too).

I did not agree to anything when I moved back. When she worked full-time there was an understanding that I'd do all the errands because I didn't have a job or pay rent etc. and that was fair. It's since she retired/got the Parkinson's diagnosis/the pandemic that it's shifted. I actually do less errands than I did when she was at work because she's always in the way- like if I try and clean she'll complain "do you have to do that now" or if I do laundry she'll say "can you put it in the drier tomorrow I've had enough of the sound of appliances for one day" (then obviously it all smells of damp and needs rewashing). These days I just give reassurance, pseudo-counselling, jump if there's something she can't do (sometimes genuinely, sometimes laziness).

You're absolutely right that I'm not doing her any favours. I've created dependency. It's codependency really because in exchange I get a place to hide every time something in my life goes wrong. My therapist told me I need to get it out of my head that my mom's house is a safe haven for me. I agree, it's incredibly twisted that I consider here "safe" and that's my mom's doing too. I don't have much positive to say about my narc dad but he'd never have let me get away with sitting around the house without a job (nothing to do with care for me, all about wanting me gone so he could have mom's undivided attention). I think my mom's clinginess/fear of me leaving her goes further back than her Parkinson's diagnosis and by not encouraging me to get back out there and get a job, make friends etc. she's successfully isolated me. And I've played into it because my last job and my last friend group were full of PDs too so home was an escape from that. God, I really am a PD magnet!