Seeking suggestions for getting through a rough patch

[Poison Ivy]

My ex-spouse exhibits behaviors associated with avoidant personality disorder and dependent personality disorder (not officially diagnosed with either). He has been diagnosed with ADHD, anxiety, and depression. He often doesn't respond to communications. He is cheap.

I have been depressed and anxious for a long time, too. I try very hard to not drag my family down with me.

One of our children will be receiving a Ph.D. in June. The graduation is out of state. I don't like to travel, but I will be going to the graduation because it's what a good parent does.

My ex has not responded to any messages in the family chat about whether he has made travel plans. I have privately offered to help him with making the plans. He has not responded to those messages either.

Here are the things I know: I can't force ex to go to graduation. I can't make him communicate with me. I can't make him communicate with our children. I will be disappointed if he doesn't go to graduation. Our children, especially the one receiving the degree, will be very disappointed if he doesn't go. I have no control over anything except my thoughts and feelings.

So, how to deal with my depression and anxiety in the next few months?

Thank you.

[square]

Hugs, PI.

When you think about the possibility that your ex will not make plans or communicate appropriately to his adult child, what specifically is tied to your feeling of anxiety/depression?

For example, do you fear this could reveal something about your ex that is difficult to face?

Or do you deep down feel some form of responsibility and that your "failure" (of course it's not your failure) reveals something about you?

Or perhaps something else?

[Poison Ivy]

I definitely feel responsible and like a failure about my children having me and my ex as parents. However, I want my child's graduation to be about my child and not about my feelings about myself.

My anxiety and depression are mine. I don't blame my ex for them. But they're exacerbated by stress, such as the "will he or won't he go to graduation" stress. Other stresses: this is, as always, the busiest time of year at my job; and my mom's health is not good and I feel an obligation to put on a happy face for her and my siblings.

I am stressed by these situations and obligations, the stressors lower my mood, and I can't release any obligations right now.

[square]

I hear you, and none of that is easy.

What would happen if you chose to assume your ex is not coming - to give up on it and also not wonder if maaaaybe he will?

I suppose if suddenly he makes plans you can make that emotional shift then but given what you describe, perhaps it's a safe bet to assume he won't? Especially if you cease your offers of help?

My husband seems to frequently break promises or not come through on things that most people would prioritize, and it's hard. I have found a partial amount of peace in giving up. He does come through sometimes and I just try to feel positive about those cases while shrugging off the rest as a lost cause. Of course your situation may be complicated by mixed feelings, as him coming would also present stress I am guessing.

Your feelings are yours, but may be worth you pinning down the source in case there is any chance of digesting them somewhat, changing them into pieces you can process.

[Poison Ivy]

Thank you, square. I appreciate you suggesting that I move toward "assume he's not coming." I'd been feeling that this weekend, and having some reinforcement here is helpful.

[NarcKiddo]

My thoughts on reading through this thread align with square's suggestion of assuming he is not coming. If anyone asks you if he is coming you can honestly reply "I don't know". I assume everyone who is coming from the immediate family has seen the family chat and his lack of engagement. That's not on you. You have gone above and beyond by offering privately to help him plan. Since you would like him to be there for your child, I imagine you can treat it as a bonus if he suddenly communicates, or even turns up unannounced.

Since you don't like travel, but are doing it for your child, then I think your energies would be better focused on your trip and your plans so that you can make it as stress-free for you as you can.

I think square is right to suggest that your feelings may be coming from a place that could benefit from some processing. On the surface I would suppose that your ex is not somebody you particularly want to spend time with, and his non-communication or failure to show up do not objectively reflect on you. So your anxiety and stress over the issue is likely coming from somewhere deeper. You might benefit from considering what is really going on here for you and what old pains are being provoked.That said, the trip is not all that far away now and you have other things to worry about. Digging around in possibly quite painful places may not be something you feel up to at the moment. Maybe you could consider journalling your feelings (the fact of them, if not any specifics or thoughts about where they may be coming from) to see if you can get them out of your immediate horizon. Then they could maybe more easily wait until you are ready to deal with them.

Hugs.

[Associate of Daniel]

Hi, Poison Ivy.

Firstly, congratulations to your child who has gained their PHD!  And congratulations to you for raising a child to have the interest, discipline and organisational skills to obtain such a high qualification.  That is a job well done!

Secondly, I'm very sorry you're dealing with depression and anxiety.  I gather these can be very debilitating. I also feel for your ex dealing with those and ADHD.  That's quite a bundle of diagnoses.

You don't mention the ages of your other children.  If they are all legally adults I have a question.

Have you considered going NC with your ex?

The situation you describe (tertiary graduation) would not normally need logistical involvement from parents, other than to attend the ceremony.  IMO it's your ex's responsibility to organise his own life regarding whether or not he attends and then the logistics of getting there.  I understand his health issues would make such decisions difficult for him but he could reach out to others for help, instead of relying upon you.  To quote a sentence that is often written on these boards, "Your ex is your ex for a reason."  You are no longer accountable to him and no longer responsible for him.  That is a harsh thing to hear and to say, but it doesn't mean you would no longer care about him.  It would be you becoming indifferent to him, which is often a healthier place to be.

I wonder if you had less to no contact with him, would it ease your own health difficulties?

I understand if you children are younger you probably feel the need to facilitate the relationship between them and their father.  But your priority needs to be your own mental health in order to be available to your children. And if maintaining your mental health requires you to have less contact with your ex, maybe low or no contact needs to be considered.

I get the stress of wondering if he will be at the graduation or not.  I've lived years of that gut churning awfulness on so many occasions myself and am thankfully near the end of it. (My ds is 16)

Anyway, I feel I've been a little blunt.  I hope I haven't upset you.  But I do hope it's helpful.

AOD

[Poison Ivy]

Thank you for reading my post and for the replies.

Yes, my ex is an ex for a reason, and the things I mentioned in my post sum up those reasons. I mostly don't communicate with him. In the past year, there were two situations in which I did: The wedding of a member of his side of the family to which he and our children were invited and about which he was not communicating with the children; and the very sudden and unexpected death of the parent of one child's boyfriend, which the child was trying to tell him about and he was not answering the phone or responding to texts.

[mary_poppins]

Hi Poison Ivy.

How do you deal with your depressed feelings? Well since you know you can't make your ex do anything and your children may be hurt because of his actions, you can only sit back and feel those feelings. I don't know what else is there to do here. Sometimes journaling helps a lot. Why is your ex husbands behavior bother you so much? Isn't he an ex? If you're still trying to change him maybe unconsciously, ask yourself why, what have you to gain from changing him? Your children will need to learn how to deal with their own feelings of abandonment produced by their father. You can't really protect them from their pain. I believe letting them grieve the father they wished they had is a good action forward. Be there for them as much as you can if your ex cannot do that.

I get it that facing depressing feelings might be hard. But not facing those feelings can come at a cost (people pleasing, codependency, avoidance behavior, anxiety etc).

Meditation also helps bring up the tears. If you can't meditate, there are groups that meet for the purpose of meditating. This was the only thing that helped me process my abuses (along with therapy, of course).

[SonofThunder]

Hi Poison Ivy,

Another congrats here to your child on the Ph.D. 🙌🏼.  Congrats also to you!   

You wrote: 

"I definitely feel responsible and like a failure about my children having me and my ex as parents. However, I want my child's graduation to be about my child and not about my feelings about myself."

I believe this statement reveals a great deal of emotion and insight. I believe these feelings/anxieties would be wonderful to discuss directly with your Ph.D grad child before graduation.  The reason I believe that, is that it entrusts your child with your feelings.  Each time I have disclosed my (normally kept hidden) anxieties over my pending divorce of their mother, they have both been so very grateful and gracious toward me for entrusting them, both as a fellow equal adult and very dear friend. 

Imo, both of your feelings (failure and focus) are really about how absolutely proud you are of your child(ren), despite how their parents marriage worked out, therefore conveying your feelings to the child(ren) is imo, exposing a mother's deep love, gratefulness and pride for her children.  My kids would be so very joyed to know I wrestled with feelings related to their tremendous accomplishments; even feelings about how a spouse (I chose...) can be SO frustrating and out of my control. 

Its all about the graduating child, and deservingly so!  Congrats again!

SoT

[Poison Ivy]

Thank you again. I'm reading all the responses and even if I don't comment back on your response, know that I've read it and am trying to put it to good use.

I'm much aware of my depression and anxiety but I try to not dwell on or in them. My ex uses his mental-illness struggles as a shield (wall, armor, whatever). I realized a long time ago that if there was going to be a "strong" partner and parent, it wasn't going to be my spouse, so that left me.

[square]

PI, my sense is that you may feel that you cannot have emotional needs.

Some people do leverage and weaponixe their emotions and vulnerabilities. But it's not a binary between that and a total stiff upper lip.

I have no doubt that you will prioritize your adult child's accomplishment and her celebration. Yet you can still acknowledge and honor your stress and anxiety, to us, to yourself, to any support you may have in your life.

Your feelings are totally valid and okay, exactly as they are.

On another topic, I have had the experience of anxiety taking on a life of its own before. I luckily do not feel I suffer from chronic anxiety, yet I recall a time where it spun out of control and was not even really about anything. I may have had a panic attack, and everything was totally out of proportion. (NOT suggesting your experience is out of proportion, just giving context to my story).

I went to my doctor, and he prescribed me a few Klonopin. After two days I felt like my usual self again. I felt that I had been knocked askew somehow and the medication just got me on my feet again.

More recently, I got a beta blocker which I used as needed to manage my fight or flight stress reactions when my husband yelled at me. It helped calm my pounding heart and therefore I would feel calmer. That use is considered off label but I found it very effective, especially since it had no psychotropic effects. I think I've taken it once in the last six months but I feel better knowing it's there if I feel I need it. I believe it was Pepin who also recently started the same medication for similar needs.

Just a thought - maybe a limited pharmaceutical trwatment could get you back on balance and feeling more like yourself again.

[Poison Ivy]

The fact that I have emotional needs has always been a struggle. I had a serious psychological disorder when I was a teenager, and during one of the (very few) family therapy sessions, my mother said that I had developed the disorder on purpose, to bring attention to myself, mess up our family, or both. Since then (almost five decades), I've tried, with varied amounts of success, to not "bother" my family with my emotional needs.

[square]

That was incredibly cruel of your mother. I'm very sorry, PI.

[Poison Ivy]

Thank you, square. Obviously, I haven't forgotten this event; I also haven't forgiven my mom. But I chose to not discuss it with her, and I'm okay with her going to her grave without me talking about it.

[square]

That sounds quite reasonable.

[bloomie]

Poison Ivy - Adding my congratulations to your family as you celebrate and honor your child's high achievement! Such a wonderful, important moment in their life! You have every reason to be so proud and not want anything to overshadow or take away from this moment in time.

You have already received such wise insights that I just want to add a single thing that has really helped me. It is small and may seem too simplistic to a complex labyrinth of emotions and struggle with intrusive thoughts and anxiety, but in a situation like you describe with your ex and your child's graduation, like you, I can sense impending hurt on the horizon. And I sure can spin out on all of the 'what ifs'.

You know what else I can do if I am not mindful? I can try and protect by 'helping' and 'reminding' and making plans for someone who is choosing to be uncooperative and potentially hurtful to my adult child. And maybe there are times for that when our children are helpless and defenseless, so I understand the urge and the vigilance.

That small, simple helpful thing I have learned to say to myself to stop my thoughts, my inner angst, is: "this is none of my business" because, and I say this with so much gentleness, what your ex does or not do, how your ex shows up for your child or not, if your ex communicates about anything with your adult children, may not be yours to manage or run interference in.

If your child is disappointed and hurt you will come alongside and even possibly talk about this before the event as SOT suggests, but ultimately, if you were no longer on this earth what would happen? Your ex would come through or disappoint. And the consequences would play out for whatever decision your ex made between them.

The difference is, you are on this earth and able to empathize, engage, and celebrate your beautiful child and cast the worry of all of this at the feet of your ex where it belongs. We cannot care more about someone's relationship with our child than they do. Strange as it may seem, for me anyway, it comes back to having inner boundaries where I remind myself and redirect myself that this is not mine to do or prevent or intercede in. It just seems you are carrying a heavy load that is not yours to carry at this point and it is exhausting and discouraging.

Here are the things I know: I can't force ex to go to graduation. I can't make him communicate with me. I can't make him communicate with our children. I will be disappointed if he doesn't go to graduation. Our children, especially the one receiving the degree, will be very disappointed if he doesn't go. I have no control over anything except my thoughts and feelings.

In essence, this is what you are declaring for yourself! You are going to stick to what is yours to do and move through the feelings you rightfully have and refuse the specter of your ex's choices over this wonderful time.

Cheering you on as you live out your mission statement above!!

[Poison Ivy]

Thank you, Bloomie.

I have been thinking about "parent who can't be there because parent has died" quite a bit recently, although in different terms. The child who will be receiving a Ph.D. is in a relationship, and child's partner's mother died very suddenly and unexpectedly a few months ago. This death makes me want to be present for my children even more. But I sometimes wonder whether my ex envies the dead parent (e.g., "Such a good excuse for not being present: Dead!").

Wow. I got that off my chest; feel free to dump on me for it.

[moglow]

I doubt you'll ever see any of us dump for calling it how we see it at times, so rest your head on that one.

I really like how Bloomie worded her caveat to you - "That small, simple helpful thing I have learned to say to myself to stop my thoughts, my inner angst, is: "this is none of my business" because, and I say this with so much gentleness, what your ex does or not do, how your ex shows up for your child or not, if your ex communicates about anything with your adult children, may not be yours to manage or run interference in. If your child is disappointed and hurt you will come alongside and even possibly talk about this before the event as SOT suggests, but ultimately, if you were no longer on this earth what would happen? Your ex would come through or disappoint. And the consequences would play out for whatever decision your ex made between them."

It's hard, damned hard to sit back and watch all this unfold, but in the end there's not one thing you can do to stop whatever train he's driving. You'll be there for the fallout, and chances are your child is already aware that dad may choose to drop the ball again. That's on HIM and says not one thing about you or this major accomplishment! Putting that responsibility firmly where it belongs may work wonders on your anxiety and depression - it's truly not your stuff on any level. And frankly if he chooses some last minute plea for your help, feel free to decline. Everyone else had to plan ahead, he's a big boy and can do the same.

Congratulations and enjoy this with your family who choose to celebrate with you.

[bloomie]

Thank you, Bloomie.

I have been thinking about "parent who can't be there because parent has died" quite a bit recently, although in different terms. The child who will be receiving a Ph.D. is in a relationship, and child's partner's mother died very suddenly and unexpectedly a few months ago. This death makes me want to be present for my children even more. But I sometimes wonder whether my ex envies the dead parent (e.g., "Such a good excuse for not being present: Dead!").

Wow. I got that off my chest; feel free to dump on me for it.

This is insightful! No dumping here at all.

I am wrapping my mind around this connection you are making. The difference you are seeing in how this really sad and unexpected death inspires you to fully experience the present, pushing through your own difficulties.

I am thinking this is an example of the difference between seeing life and relationships as an opportunity and privilege versus an obligation or burden. And how that could play out at the really disordered end of the spectrum with an avoidant type person.

My goodness what a huge load that connection you've made and your observations must be. I am so thankful you trusted us and shared it.