I'm back in touch with my mother.

[easterncappy]

I'm going to try to keep this as short as possible.

Two Sundays ago, I got a voicemail from my mom saying that she was moving back to our country of birth. I lost it - I cried for a while about how messed up my life is. My dad died 2 months prior, and as much as I didn't miss him or really care all that much that he died (he was very abusive and probably the worse of the two in the grand scheme of things), I knew things would not end well with my mother. I suspected this would happen. I also suspected that it was an attention grab, but if I crunched the numbers, I knew she wasn't able to continue living here on her income after my dad died. But, this meant that I either reach out that day, or lose contact forever (I had no idea where in our country she was going to go, I had no way to contact her on social media, I didn't think she'd have internet, I didn't know what her phone number would be). And I wondered, had she been through enough to see where I was coming from?

She did briefly come to my house. Her flight ended up delayed, and I figured it wouldn't do too much harm for her to see my daughter for a few minutes, at an age where she definitely wouldn't even remember it, a day before my mom moved to another continent.

We've talked on the phone a couple of times since then. There were a lot of major things she accepted fault for. She accepted that my childhood is traumatic, that my PTSD comes partly from my childhood (she never had a problem accepting that it came from a few other events in my life unrelated to them), that my dad was a loser and a bad father, that she was a coward and didn't protect me enough, that she walked on eggshells and let his emotions control the entire household, that many of the things she told me to stop me being a "troublemaker" (my choice of words) were out of place and inappropriate. For much of this, I didn't have to guide her or hold her hand, I just brought the topic up and she started talking.

She was homeless for two months. She is on antidepressants and panic attack medicine, after previously thinking those are for stupid and lazy people. She was suicidal at one point. A lot has happened to her. She told me that sometimes people have to lose everything to realize what's really important. She seems significantly more "upbeat", as in, not happy, but I do feel like a lot of her general misery that she took out on me was from what she described as walking on eggshells to keep my dad happy. More of her own person instead of someone looking over their shoulder for approval, or lashing out due to some insecurities. She told me that she didn't believe she could live without him, so she let him do anything, and got angry at me for questioning it. This is in line with my therapist's assessment that she likely has dependent personality disorder.

I know, I broke the "rule" of never breaking No Contact no matter what. I've discussed this with my therapist and he thinks I'm being reasonable so far, though. I am not fully sure if I trust her (and she's okay with this and says she understands), but the lovely thing is that she's in another country and I have absolute control over when and how often we talk. She can't show up to my house randomly, she can't ask me to do odd favors for her, she can't influence my child - those are all reasons I went No Contact.

I feel really weird about all of it. Sometimes I wonder if I did the right thing, and a lot of weird memories are resurfacing. I'm trying to talk to her about it in bits and pieces (because it's too heavy for me to do all at once), and so far, we've disagreed only on two things out of the many things we've discussed about how she failed me as a mother. I keep questioning if I'm expecting too much perfection from her. I'm helping her with one bureaucratic thing that actually has a huge benefit for me (property and citizenship matters), but besides that, I'm not really doing anything for her.

I wonder if we'll ever be able to have a healthy relationship. I'm well aware of the fact that it will never reset and magically develop as a healthy mother/daughter relationship did from the beginning. But something functional, where she has apologized for most of what went wrong and taken accountability for it, with the buffer of an ocean between us, and not much time to talk or cause trouble... I think that's reasonable to expect, no? There are aspects of her personality that I always really enjoyed and she was a fun person to be around, and I'm seeing some of that, but so far, no weird stuff like there used to be. So far.

I'm well aware of the fact that I can get burned. She can turn this all around on me, and blame me, like she has previously. She's aware of this fear that I have, and promises it won't happen, because there's nothing to turn around on me - but again, I don't trust her, and for good reason.

I guess I just wasn't ready to lose both of my parents. I think I would have regretted it a lot if we completely lost touch and she died, or something, without me making an effort to see where she's at mentally, after everything that happened. To be honest, my whole goal with No Contact was to test it out for a few years, and check back in with them (I did not anticipate my dad's death). If there was no change, back to No Contact. If there was change, work from there...

What do you all think?

[easterncappy]

I forgot to mention, my mom is actually open to the idea of therapy now. Something she used to think was for stupid and lazy people, as well. I told her all about my therapist and she admits she needs to work on herself and also seek help for her trauma from finding my dead dad (I learned the real story of how he died), and today she went to the health insurance office to get some things in order so she can find a therapist and continue her antidepressants and panic attack medicine.

Hopefully something will come out of this? Of course, I'm ready to put the brakes on it if she decides to revert back to her original behavior. Perhaps getting comfortable will do that. Who knows? Only time will tell.

[xredshoesx]

it sounds like you are getting some closure and some validation from someone who witnessed the abuse you endured as a child FIRST HAND and if that is going to help you keep healing and moving forward then it's not wrong for you.  if it gets you an apology from her even better, and if you are able to keep moving forward to have a positive relationship with her that's a bonus.  it also sounds like you've got the safety nets ready to deploy if it doesn't work out and have the tools you need to protect your child if you do continue to allow your mother to be a part of their life.

[Leonor]

Hi Eastern!

I am glad you have had a positive experience with your mom and that you are satisfied with the level of communication you have established with her.

No contact isn't an unbreakable rule or law of nature or something; it's a boundary that you establish to maintain your own sense of peace, stability, and wellness. And that's the goal: peace, stability, and wellness. Some folks find that in no contact, others with limited contact, others with regular contact... the "how" is not important. In fact, the "how" is probably least important. 

That said, dear Eastern, the Mommy pull is very strong (and now that you're a daughter mommy yourself, you can feel it in the marrow of your bones!). In your post, you say that you don't feel ready to lose both your parents, that you would feel terrible if something happened to your mom while not speaking to her, that you as the capable daughter can help her with some practical things ... that, my dear lovely loving Eastern, is fear (I'm afraid of abandonment), guilt (what if she does alone and I'm to blame), and obligation (I'm the only person to help her with this.)

At the same time, your mom seems a bit, shall we say, dramatic. Her husband abuses her daughter and she crumbles into a corner. He dies and she tries to barge into your home with some random factor who may even be some kind of criminal accomplice? Her daughter steps into her adult self and she declares she's moving out of the country. Now she gets the big reunion with her lost daughter, the big scene of apology and reconciliation and ... will you help me with these papers, dear? There's a little something in it for you ...

She's not in therapy yet. She hasn't moved out of the country yet. She hasn't acknowledged the atrocious behavior she's displayed over the past year yet. These are promises, words, plans ... and the exact kinds of words she thinks you want to hear.

You're also getting some red flags, memories are emerging, and you're feeling just a little running current of doubt about how much you can trust your mother. That's your inner compass guiding you to prioritize you and your care and your family and stand in your truth.

You cannot have now the mother you never had then because that time is passed. You can't have the kind of adult mother-daughter relationship that develops over a loving, stable, and healthy childhood because you never had that childhood. The 9nly relationship you can have is an adult-to-adult relationship with this woman, the woman before you. This woman is not bad or evil or irredeemable. But she has her illness and her issues and her ways of operating in the world, and as an adult and mommy yourself, it is up to you to see her clearly - with compassion, as a humane human being - but clearly. And then decide what you want, what your expectations and limits are, not for what she may or may not do, but for what you will tolerate from other adults in your life, and move from there.

You're no longer a daughter. You're a mommy. Everyone you allow into your life and home has access to your daughter. That's the due focus of your attention and care and love.

[NarcKiddo]

Thanks for checking in. I've been wondering how you have been getting on. I hope you and your husband and daughter are all doing well.

As for your mother - well, there are no rules for NC to break as far as I know. Don't use that as a stick to beat yourself up with, either now or in the future if it all goes wrong.

Leonor is right that there are some red flags, but you have a therapist and a supportive FOC, and you are obviously well aware that things can never be perfect.

From my perspective, it seems that your mother needs you more than you need her at this point in time, and she knows it. So she has to toe the line if she wants to keep some contact with you. As she finds her feet again in your country of origin, this could change. You are aware of that danger now - but don't lose sight of it down the road.

As for her getting therapy - well, if she does, I guess that would be in your country of origin. You have never said what country that is, and I am not asking, but for whatever reason I have formed the impression that the culture there, and attitudes to women, may be different to what you are now used to. If that is wrong, I apologise. And I in no way want to cast aspersions on therapists from different countries but their culture and personal experiences must surely inform their practice in some ways. So your mother may not necessarily hear all the things you might expect her to hear, given you have experienced therapy where you currently are and not there.

I wish you the very best and hope things work out as you would hope.

[moglow]

No contact is yours - you get to decide the parameters, the "rules" are whatever works for you as long as it takes. There's no need to apologize or feel you've let anyone down, here or anywhere else. From my chair, it looks like you took a much needed break now you have found some stable ground, which shows the NC did exactly what it needed to do. Well thought out no contact does that - it's not a stomping hissy fit of silent treatment trying to egg others on or punish them. There really is a difference.

Leonor said it well:

At the same time, your mom seems a bit, shall we say, dramatic. Her husband abuses her daughter and she crumbles into a corner. He dies and she tries to barge into your home with some random factor who may even be some kind of criminal accomplice? Her daughter steps into her adult self and she declares she's moving out of the country. Now she gets the big reunion with her lost daughter, the big scene of apology and reconciliation and ... will you help me with these papers, dear? There's a little something in it for you ...

She's not in therapy yet. She hasn't moved out of the country yet. She hasn't acknowledged the atrocious behavior she's displayed over the past year yet. These are promises, words, plans ... and the exact kinds of words she thinks you want to hear.

You have to remember she's the same person she was before, albeit floundering right now trying to find her place in the world. It's not a flip of the switch for either of you, where there's suddenly trust and kindness and girl talk. She's still blaming your father for how she treated you. Yes, she had challenges with him too, but she was an adult who made that choice and kept on making it. As long as she's blaming others for her behavior and what she allowed to happen to her child, she has things to work through herself. I guess what I'm asking is, she went into some detail about what *she's* been through - did she listen to you, ask about you and having just had a child and the adjustments that has to be for you? Or was it mostly about her?

Think of this as a honeymoon phase, kind of like dating an acquaintance, someone you've never been close to and have some reservations. Everybody is showing their best side right now. You *still* don't have to throw yourself all in as if nothing ever happened and she was mother of the year. While you don't have to dredge through every painful memory, neither can you pretend all is well. You have things to work through, and you don't necessarily have to do it with her. Her owning up to her own stuff would be helpful but it still doesn't change the relationship itself. As Leonor said, now it's between two adults rather than a mother and child.

[easterncappy]

Thank you all for the responses. I'll try to address every major point. I'm exhausted - baby is learning how to get around and I've been sick and not sleeping well. So I'm sorry if I forget something.

My mom is indeed back in our country of birth. She left the day after she visited. I do have proof - she'd videocalled me from my childhood home, she went to live back with her parents. I kind of suspected that, and it's also a terrible place to live. No hot water, mold everywhere, everything is very old and in poor shape. She's taking it pretty well for someone who used to be so materialistic, though.

Today, she went to the unemployment office. She's trying to find work, and I was pleasantly surprised that the unemployment office there offers free psychotherapy to people who are going through major life changes (including the death of a spouse or moving to the country as those can interfere with one's motivation or ability to work), so she is starting therapy next Thursday. She seems very excited about this. I asked her what she wants to talk to the therapist about, and she told me my childhood, her childhood, her mistakes, and her marriage to my dad as well as his death. I told her it's a difficult process that requires a lot of dedication and honesty, and that it's also very difficult in the beginning as lots of negative memories are processed and resurface (this is what my therapist told me and it was indeed correct). I also told her that she might need to try a few therapists before finding one that she really likes, I did not like the first one I went to.

My country of origin is in Eastern Europe. We are from a very rural and conservative area. Things have apparently changed a bit since we last lived there, seemingly for the better. I believe the a therapist from our culture might not have the exact same ideas as an American therapist, but I believe they are usually fluent in English and study a lot of Western literature about psychology and therapy during their education, so I believe she will not have too hard of a time finding someone good for her.

The paperwork I am having her handle directly benefits myself and my daughter materially. It's about a piece of land that my dad owned, and basically requires me ordering a few certificates and mailing them to her - no biggie. We talked today about how I don't want the relationship to become another thing where I am just giving and she is just taking, and I cited the example of how I was her personal driver for 5 years. Unprompted, she told me that it must have been traumatic to spend my early 20's driving her around, and that it was an all-around terrible situation that doesn't need to be repeated. I know - words are cheap, but I'm reasonably hopeful (with fail safes in place if she betrays me again plus an ocean as a buffer for my safety).

I talked to my therapist about it today, and long story short, he also believes this is just a matter of time. Perhaps after a few years we will have a functional long-distance relationship. Perhaps she will burn me so bad I won't ever bother again.

I also told her that this relationship will never magically reset as a good mother/daughter relationship, but that it can be founded in mutual respect as adults, which she was fine with.

And yes, she is quite a dramatic person - although, I don't know if it's the pills or the life experience, but she doesn't really seem to be as extreme in either direction anymore. I hope she gets a lifetime supply of those pills. If she shed all of her negative qualities except for the dramatics, she'd be alright. I have a friend whose definitely non-abusive mother was always dramatic, because she had an anxiety disorder, and while it affected him, they have a healthy relationship and she was a "good enough" mom. Seriously, I'd be glad if this was the only problem.

I pretty much only call her on my own terms. We chatted today while I made dinner for everyone. The silliest part of all of this is that in her 50's, she is hiding outside of the house to be able to be on the phone with me briefly, because her parents are nosy and criticize everything - and she admitted that this is a problem (although criticizing her parents is still a soft spot for her so I kind of let her lead the way when it comes up), and she's even admitted that her parents seem unwilling to ever change and that it's like stepping into a time machine and being a kid again, except with the adult understanding that they kind of suck and aren't actually infallible. It's ironic.

Thank you all again.

[easterncappy]

You have to remember she's the same person she was before, albeit floundering right now trying to find her place in the world. It's not a flip of the switch for either of you, where there's suddenly trust and kindness and girl talk. She's still blaming your father for how she treated you. Yes, she had challenges with him too, but she was an adult who made that choice and kept on making it. As long as she's blaming others for her behavior and what she allowed to happen to her child, she has things to work through herself. I guess what I'm asking is, she went into some detail about what *she's* been through - did she listen to you, ask about you and having just had a child and the adjustments that has to be for you? Or was it mostly about her?

Think of this as a honeymoon phase, kind of like dating an acquaintance, someone you've never been close to and have some reservations. Everybody is showing their best side right now. You *still* don't have to throw yourself all in as if nothing ever happened and she was mother of the year. While you don't have to dredge through every painful memory, neither can you pretend all is well. You have things to work through, and you don't necessarily have to do it with her. Her owning up to her own stuff would be helpful but it still doesn't change the relationship itself. As Leonor said, now it's between two adults rather than a mother and child.

Oh, we've talked some about what I've been through. Postpartum depression, being somewhat suicidal at times, the childhood experiences we used to pretend didn't happen or weren't a big deal, the whole thing. I am trying to see her point with my dad - I can imagine that growing up with a dad even worse than mine was, and then marrying a similar character, would lead her to have low self-esteem, probably think all men are like that, and get upset at what she feels is an unchangeable situation (my therapist did suggest dependent personality disorder and I do think that's what it was) and lash out at anyone who questioned it (including tiny cappy). It's not right and she's said as much. My therapist and I agreed that this is a reason and not an excuse. Nothing really excuses it. But I can imagine that an abusive marriage ending, even if it's one she conditioned herself to pretend was okay, would do some good for her. Even if she doesn't magically become a good mother - not that I'm expecting that. You can be a bad person, who is made even worse by a bad marriage.

Yes it is somewhat of a honeymoon phase. Only time will tell where she's at mentally.

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi Easterncappy,

Totally agreeing here with the posts made by others. Leonor's post nailed it. When our parent says they will do these things, and make these changes, that is fine. What matters is whether they follow through or not.

And you are a parent now. The people in your life are in your child's life as well (although you may decide not to allow contact between your child and your parent, and that is perfectly understandable, and something I did as well). I did not allow access to my child. My parent is unwell, and even with good intentions, behaviours from unwell adults must be taken seriously. It is up to us to protect our kids.

Many people here on this site over the years have navigated low contact LC and very low contact, and very very low contact. These are choices you get to make because it is your life. I went NC after VLC proved unworkable for us. Each one of us decides what level of contact we want with our parents. VLC works for some people.

You have done a lot of work to address the trauma you've experienced. It is up to her to do her recovery work with herself. No one can do her work for her. You can support her in her goals but she must do the learning she has to do.

I hope she is not looking for you to parent her. And I hope she learns how to respect you- which would be shown through behaviour not words - accepting your boundaries, and accepting your limits on how much time and energy you have for her given that you are a mother and wife.

I came to realize that my PD mother was never going to respect my time. And my need for space for my on-going recovery work.

And I hope that is not the case with your mother. All I can say here is that her behaviours matter more than any words she says. Please remember that.

Trees

[Cat of the Canals]

Just wanted to pop in and reiterate what's already been said re: breaking NC. Every relationship is as unique as the people involved in it, and that makes it utterly impossible to come up with stringent contact rules. Anyone who says that NC must be permanent is, in my opinion, applying the same black-and-white thinking PDs use.

I've said before that I'm impressed with your boundary skills, so if there's anyone I'd trust to safely navigate from NC to VLC or LC, it's you.

[easterncappy]

I appreciate y'all's input!

I'm glad you perceive me as being good at boundaries. To be honest, if I am, it's only because I've been reading boards and websites for people like us for a very long time. These kinds of places are really important to people learning what's wrong with their families and how to deal with it. I probably would have never gone NC in the first place if I wasn't aware of the dynamic. I feel like NC made my mom realize I was serious. I even told her again that the entire point was to make her confront what she felt was unavoidable, which is the dysfunction in our family and the fact that my "troublemaker" behavior was a healthy reaction to it.

However sometimes people I speak to make it seem like NC is never to be broken. I have a friend who is NC with his mom, because she was very cruel and kicked him out of the house, among other things. He really tried to dissuade me from speaking to my mom again. I was a bit upset at this, because he was so extreme about it. Then he told me that each time he reconnects with his mom, it's like she's gotten worse, she never realizes any of what she did wrong. So it's understandable that many people stress never breaking NC - for them, it genuinely may never be worth it. He was glad that he might be wrong about my mom.

Today we were on the phone for a bit while I played with my daughter. She asked permission to have my grandma in a video call with my daughter one of these days - something virtually unheard of in our family, where kids are seen as fun toys to force kisses on and show off because they're cute, no boundaries for kids ever. Before today, I really stressed to her that I will never trust her alone with my daughter (if we were ever to be in the same general area again), and that my daughter (and every other child in existence) is not a cute thing you show off to people to make them happy, they have the right to be uncomfortable with people or exit a situation that is not necessary for them to be in for any reason. This came up because of how often she made me help random adults in her life, or forced me to kiss and hug my dad (and would get upset with me for not wanting to) - for which she apologized, as well.

So far, so good. I'm trying not to get too impressed with each time she follows a rule about my child or our relationship or apologizes for something she did wrong (since it is basic human decency), but I'm also trying to not be too hard on her in case she genuinely is getting better as a person. It's possible. I enjoy speaking to her about how our days are going, what we cooked, jokes, hobbies...

[Call Me Cordelia]

It seems like there are a lot of overall positives here, and she's definitely on good behavior. I'm glad for you.

It seems like a lot of contact though in just a short time! I do have an issue with the entire point of NC being to make *her* realize... Yeah, no.

You've made enormous progress and I'm sorry if I seem like I'm coming in here throwing a wet blanket on you. I am thinking though that you may be going a bit fast. She may be an ocean away but if you have contact via phone and texting it can still get to be a lot, too much. And even if it's all going pretty well, it's probably taking up a ton of your emotional energy. How will it be if you have to go back to square one and end it all? Will you be comfortable with how much you are investing at this point?

[Leonor]

  

"I even told her again that the entire point was to make her confront what she felt was unavoidable, which is the dysfunction in our family and the fact that my "troublemaker" behavior was a healthy reaction to it."

Dear Eastern, the point of NC isn't to prove a point, force a confrontation, make someone else see the light, show anyone else anything. It has absolutely nothing to do with anyone else.

This makes NC a manipulative tactic, and that's not fair to anyone involved, including you and your mom.

The point of no contact - or any boundary - is simply to live your self worth. To decide that you deserve health and peace and respect and positivity in your life, to model that for your children, to create safe, happy, and peaceful spaces where you and your partner can build your life together without interference or abuse.

When you live out that truth, when you move from that space, it becomes clear that NC isn't really a rule. It's not a thing at all. It's just the natural progression of living out your truth.

Eastern, rather than get all tangled up in your mom - her move, her therapy, her intentions, her behavior, her feelings, her capacity for change ... I would suggest you get real clear on you: what are you doing in this relationship? What do you want from your mother? What are you hoping for from her? Why are you shifting your boundaries? What decisions will you make in regards to access to your daughter, from sharing pictures on WhatsApp to the inevitable suggestion for visits?

And none of this is grist for the mommy mill; it's an internal conversation, private and protected between you and you, and you act out (silently) from there.

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi Easterncappy,

Cat and Leonor wrote out the same points I am thinking about as well.

All I can know is my own experience when my child was small. And it is eerily similar to yours right now.

When I asserted my boundaries, ie. expressing she is never allowed to be alone with my baby do you know what she did?

She went on good behaviour. She acted the way I wanted her to act. 

She went on good behaviour. But she also got what she wanted, and she got my time, my attention, she got some access to my child, and those were all things that she wanted. That is why she went on good behaviour. To get the things she needed.

Your parent is saying a lot of things you've wanted to hear for a long time. You can't help but feel pulled in by it. We are wired up emotionally, to be pulled in by a parent who says the things we've wanted to hear for a long time.

If she is genuinely changed, then here is my advice. Take your time.

Taking your time with her will benefit you both in the end. For example, leaving a few days in between phone calls is one way you could slow things down right now. It will help you with your goal which is to not feel too impressed by her.

If you have daily contact with her, it will be harder for you to know how you feel and to reflect on the questions Leonor wrote out. That's my 2 cents.

Trees

[moglow]

If she is genuinely changed, then here is my advice. Take your time.

Taking your time with her will benefit you both in the end. For example, leaving a few days in between phone calls is one way you could slow things down right now. It will help you with your goal which is to not feel too impressed by her.


If you have daily contact with her, it will be harder for you to know how you feel and to reflect on the questions Leonor wrote out. That's my 2 cents.

Add my $.02 as I steal Trees thoughts. Also not wanting to be a wet blanket here, but think how long you were out of contact, all she shared that took place in her life during that time. Sounds like a lot of chaos rather than any actual recovery on her part. She's reeling and could be grasping for a safe familiar place to land. 

And you? From here it looks like you're excited about "good mommy." Totally understandable but is it realistic ? It feels like you have expectations based on brief shiny interactions, after a few months of no contact. No contact that was intended to force her to see things? EC, that feels a bit manipulative. 

The only way you know it's real needed change is better behavior over time. This all didnt happen overnight, and no one is magically healed overnight. Please take your time, for yourself as well as your family. 

[easterncappy]

I am not in daily contact with her - neither of us could afford that, lol. Nor am I really excited about a "good mommy" - as for what I get out of it, my biological drive to maintain a relationship with the people who created me. I know it's not something I can answer in some stoic, emotionless way - yes, I feel drawn to her because she's my mother, albeit not a very good one. That's why my best case scenario here is a functional relationship based on mutual respect *if* she continues to go through with therapy and does not get comfortable and backslide into what she had been doing for most of my life. This is the part where we figure out if she's really ready to be a better person, or if she's just being nice while navigating the big WTF her life has turned into.

I get calling my motivations for NC manipulative - it's a bit hard to hear and I guess I needed to hear it, but one of the reasons was indeed to either not have a relationship, or have one on my own terms, but no other options. The family thrived on a lot of pretending, and this put an end to the pretending. I was not willing to pretend anymore, and if they were gonna talk to me, they had better be ready to stop pretending as well. I talked about this a lot with my priest before I ever put it in place, he also believed in checking in every couple of years to see where they were mentally, to see if a relationship of any sort is even possible, or if they're still pretending.

[moglow]

Thank you for accepting our words with grace, as they were intended. 

I've been there - got my hopes all up that things had changed and WHAM just when I let down my guard and let her in it was ON. Mine isnt yours and was consistently the abuser rather than the enabler, but I suspect there are similarities. 

Mother clung to me at a time her life had been upended by the loss of her husband - after all her previous years of abuse, no apology no acknowledgment of anything that she'd done. I was suddenly her ''best friend" and she just about smothered the life out of me. She never saw that I was hurting, struggling, grieving myself. All she saw was, she's alone so naturally I must fix this for her. That I was drowning under the weight of it all, didn't register with her. 

The minute I let my guard down and said what I thought, pushed back with my own needs, her old/true self popped up. I was demonized for daring to hurt, daring to speak up, be myself. I was supposed to take care of her to the exclusion of all else! Who did I think I was?!! And we were right back where we started - her full of resentment and anger, me a quivering puddle at her rages. 

Just - take your time. Pack away expectations, and work instead on acceptance. She's made choices just as you have. You're not responsible for hers and vice versa. I'm not saying she's all bad but she (none of us! ) isn't all good either. Look at the happy mediums you can live with, letting her be who she is without losing yourself. It doesn't have to be either/or, all/nothing.

[Leonor]

Hello, dear Eastern, lovely healing mommy!

I'd like, strange as it may seem, to stand behind your mom for a moment.

What your mom does or doesn't do - how she lived her marriage, where she resides, what she says, and certainly whether or not she goes to therapy and what she says there - is none of your business.

That is her private life, and she has a right to her life and her privacy. She has a right to her griefs and beliefs, her dreams and her expectations.

She has a right to have her beliefs and feelings about her spouse, and now that he's deceased, her memories about him and their life together - a dimension and depth that only they understand - as well.

Whether or not these beliefs and experiences and memories jibe with yours is irrelevant. Impossible, even, because you are different people.

She's not just your father's enabler, or your daughter's grandmother, or your mother. She's a three dimensional, full-fledged woman with her history and mindset and ways of moving about in the world, just as you are.

The question for you is whether and to what extent you want to invite this woman into your life regardless of what she does or doesn't do for you.

This can be very freeing. It empowers us when we gain the awareness that we are equal adults, and not parent-children. We can even access a compassion that had been blocked by disappointment or anger - one that comes to us without guilt or obligation. You can see her as she is, rather than who you think she can or ought to be.

As soon as you place conditions on her (if she goes to therapy like I do, if she apologizes for what she's done to me, if she changes her story to one I like better, if she finally takes my side against his, if she gets a personality transplant, etc etc) ...  You're not accepting her for who she is. You're not recognizing her truth. And that's in a weird way, what she has been doing to you all these years!

If you can accept and honor your feelings for your mom - your hopes, your griefs, your love - without turning them into expectations to be placed on her, your relationship with her will be much more relaxed and peaceful.

It may not look the same. It may be regular contact. It may be VLC. It may be a card on Mother's Day. It may be NC. And you will not avoid the feelings of deep grief over the deeply, damagingly flawed mother you had instead of the good-enough mother all little children deserve, and your mom will not transform into the magically healed, functional elder who will guide and mentor you through your own motherhood.

But it will be real, and honest, and true to you. This is my wish for you, and your mom.
 

[treesgrowslowly]

I echo Leonor's sentiments. And Moglow's post as well.

Leonor's post has reminded me of the importance of shifting into a state where we can now practice seeing our parents as people. I forgot about how valuable that was for me when I was figuring out NC. It is a big important step in being Out of the FOG.

When you were 4, 5, 10, 15 years old you had needs. And you were a child. As a child, you had to do your best with trying to get your needs met by your parent. This is true of all of us. That is just how our society is. It is what we were all born into. If our parents couldn't meet our safety, relational and emotional needs, we survived without getting those needs met very well. Maybe not at all sometimes.

Once we become adults, childhood is over. Now we have options. We still have needs - we have relational needs, we have emotional needs, we have social needs. But we are now adults.

Our needs can be met by people outside our family. Our needs can be met by people we choose. And we can choose people who know how to meet those needs. As children we had no choice - we had to try to get our needs met by our parents.

As adults we have the power to do what Leonor is describing. We can see our parents as people. We can determine which needs are met by being in contact with them, now that we are adults.


The stance Leonor describes here, where you see your mother as a person, with her own life, her own needs, her own hopes and dreams, her own challenges, that is a very healthy stance to achieve. It is a stance the grows over time, if you allow it to develop inside of you.

I remember well, the years I spent wanting to be parented by my biological mother. As a child, I had no choice but to need this. This woman gave birth to me, and when I was 2, 5, and 10 years old etc..., I had no other way of dealing with my attachment needs.

As Leonor wrote, it was very freeing, to get to a place where I could begin to see her as a person. This started after I went NC. Before NC, I insisted that she would some day magically heal and become the "wise guide" that Leonor described.   

After NC, I started to see her as someone who should never have had to parent me (or anyone) in the first place - she didn't have the resources to do so (mental, emotional, social resources).

When I did what Leonor is describing, it was very liberating. A few years into NC, I realized that this woman could not parent me, any more than she can keep a plant alive.

Once I got to this realization, it shifted my view of her. I saw her as someone who had given birth to me, and she had her own set of behaviours and challenges - as any other person on the planet.

Just as Leonor wrote so beautifully, I eventually realized that she was never going to be the wise, "functional elder /  mentor" I needed to guide me through womanhood.

I truly believe that this does bring another level of emotional freedom, so that we can engage with our parents on our own terms.

Which is what you wrote about Easterncappy, and what I want for you as well. To have a relationship where the relating and level of contact is on your terms.

Leonor ended by writing about honesty. So now I realize that it is honest to release our mothers from the hope / expectation that they will heal enough to become the mother we've needed. Some of them never will.

When you were small, your mother held the keys to your emotional safety and your emotional development, in so many ways. This is no longer true. You now hold those keys. She will never hold those keys again because you will never be small again. There is a lot of grief and a lot of emotional freedom in this realization.

We are here for you. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and writing with us as you go through your journey.

Trees