Nothing has changed, nothing to say

[Fiasco]

Isolating and refusing to live in relationship and community with others is a breeding ground for self indulgence imo.

Your mother has deftly avoided having to make the sacrifices and show the humility it takes to get along with others and be accountable for her deeds and love others enough to, in this final season of her life, offer something of value and worth of herself to another in order to edify and bless them.

That's a truth I'll be thinking about all week.

[moglow]

I wonder if your mother simply thinks someone else will ask the relevant questions for her.  If she is at an age where confusion has set in, it may be more helpful to have your brother ask the relevant questions and take more ownership of the doctors appointments.

@Hilltop, exactly this. And I think it's as much so she ultimately has someone else to blame as anything else. I've seen her defer to others too many times and the reaction when life changes direction she wasn't expecting to not believe it. She gets assumptions in her head that 1+1=3 and no amount of explanation or logic can sway her. Even suggesting that maybe 1+1=2 is too much and she'll lash out quick fast and in a hurry, claiming she's somehow been attacked. Don't try to be reasonable from there on, it goes in one and out the other with no stall in the middle.

[moglow]

I text md this morning - sent her a devotional I listen to each morning while I'm getting ready for work. Today's subject was resisting anxiety, I hoped she might get something out of it given how she goes from one drama to another. I know she lives for and invents said drama but it's so unnecessary. Then she dumps it on others as if we're to somehow fix or erase it so she can simply move on to the next ...

Her response? (paraphrased) "Thank you for thinking of me for this. These are trying days for me. There's a lot going on. Take care." Really?? Really. Dismissed, just like that. No mention of whatever's going on, no "where'd you find this, I'd like to hear some more" not even a "Hey! Good to hear from you" I shared with brother, who said he does not understand. Far as he knew she had someone/frenemy coming over and had worked herself up about it. That's it, that's all. 

And she has audacity not long ago to get on to me about keeping in touch. Why bother, on any level? 

[bloomie]

You bothered because you are kind and trying to find a thin thread of connection with your mother. That's not wrong and she completely missed the opportunity, again.

[moglow]

Bloomie, I'm reminded of a member years ago who said her mother left this world as she had lived it, middle finger firmly in the air. I got it then, am feeling it now. Md has no more care for or interest in others than she ever had,  this is not new for her. She is indeed the lonely, bitter old woman my older brother predicted at Daddy's funeral all those years ago. 

Bro #2 said she's spooling tighter and meaner as the date of her replacement draws near. He's baffled at her open animosity and complete disregard of others, when normal people would be reaching out, making their time count. Every gesture of support or compassion is sneered at. Incessant snarling and snapping regardless of current conversation or activity. He gave up and left yesterday, same as the days before. She can stew in it by herself, was his comment. 

In the back of my mind this morning is the thought we may soon need to write a eulogy for her. What in the hell are we to say?? Other than offering our fervent prayers that she's now found the peace she denied herself and everyone around her during her lifetime, I got nothing. Should we have a service for her, I may say just that.

[bloomie]

Moglow - I once heard of an elderly woman who was living in a SNF and was furious about it. She was mean and bitter and would collect... ummm her waste products, shall we say, and make balls of said products. She would then bide her time and strategically throw them at people. 

As you can imagine, no one wanted to go near this woman and the chaos and confusion, horror of her actions, made it very hard to have any kind of nearness or empathy for her.

On an emotional and spiritual level, I believe there are those, like you describe your mom, that have been stocking up ammunition to lob at those who come near to offer sincere kindness and help for the chaos and confusion that ensues. It is heartbreaking on many levels that a human being would choose to go out this way and I have to believe a level of mental illness and dysfunction so bone deep only a true miracle can penetrate such a one.

In the back of my mind this morning is the thought we may soon need to write a eulogy for her. What in the hell are we to say?? Other than offering our fervent prayers that she's now found the peace she denied herself and everyone around her during her lifetime, I got nothing. Should we have a service for her, I may say just that.

It is completely understandable to struggle with this question. I hope that when the time comes, whatever you and your sibs decide is unifying and healing for you all. What a long journey this all is!

[moglow]

I don't think it occurs to her that should things not go well or there are complications requiring more care, she doesn't go back to her house. No one is going in there to stay with and take care of her. Or maybe that's the basis of her current animosity - she spent our lives attacking and pushing us away, now sees that it worked. She's a feral animal trapped in a corner of her own making.

[Call Me Cordelia]

 

Mo, we're here with you. Your mom's behavior seems like self-sabotage. Her fear of abandonment is acting up and she's and lashing out. Maybe.

Whatever the reason, you know you can't do any more than you already are for her. And it is not you, it's all her.

As for the possibility of a eulogy, I think that what you wrote is true and kind. But one step at a time.

[moglow]

Brief update- they're at surgery center. Md is upset that there are others waiting, and that she will have to wait her turn. She actually had it in her head that their day is all about her. Even after they told her the procedure should be around 45min to an hour. :drama queen: ✨

[bloomie]

Brief update- they're at surgery center. Md is upset that there are others waiting, and that she will have to wait her turn. She actually had it in her head that their day is all about her. Even after they told her the procedure should be around 45min to an hour. :drama queen: ✨

I am imagining the entire scene. Surgical services - where delusions of grandeur meet reality...

[moglow]

  You just have to laugh, ya know? She'd apparently rambled on about presumed meetings between her doctors, where they debated her condition, compared notes and surgery tactics etc, delusions of grandeur indeed. Bro said he struggled with "custody of face" and not openly rolling his eyes. "I had to focus elsewhere." He didn't want to be the one to tell her, it's likely they didn't communicate at all beyond the referral to surgeon. Maybe the referrer will get post op report documenting changed equipment. But yeah.

All went well - she didn't get that wished for overnight in hospital and accompanying OMG they were so worried and I couldn't go home. Bro said he's braced for a meltdown now one box is ticked off, crisis averted and no one jumped to her alarm as intended. He ain't lyin'.

[Call Me Cordelia]

All about her lol. The whole thing is just all in a day's work for the surgeons! We've had our fair share of surgeries in our family, and you know what most surgeons like their patients better when they are unconscious and all the non-relevant body parts are concealed under the drape. 

[moglow]

Ha! Bro said she tried to have the same (rambling, baseless) conversations she attempted in their office weeks ago. They politely and professionally cut her off, asked or told her what they needed for now, and "we'll come get you when we're ready for you." Guarantee they have regular surgery/replacement days and she's just another spoke in that wheel. In her mind *she* is the wheel around which all revolves, the sun to all the planets. I mean that's how it works in the rest of her world so these surgeons are no different. He said she insisted her doctor had preadmitted her weeks ago (he had not, it was never even mentioned).

It truly doesn't occur to her they likely see hundreds of these in a year, then barring complications possibly see those patients again in for a replacement years down the road, if ever. They're not forming the relationships she seems to think they have.

[Cat of the Canals]

Really?? Really. Dismissed, just like that. No mention of whatever's going on, no "where'd you find this, I'd like to hear some more" not even a "Hey! Good to hear from you" I shared with brother, who said he does not understand. Far as he knew she had someone/frenemy coming over and had worked herself up about it. That's it, that's all.

And she has audacity not long ago to get on to me about keeping in touch. Why bother, on any level?

When I was still under the influence of Flying Monkeys, I would sometimes here how "jealous" my mother was that I emailed them and not her. The FMs in question being my aunt (who literally lives on the other side of the planet) and my dad (who I rarely get to actually speak with on the phone since The Queen is always holding court).

So I went out of my way on numerous occasions to write my mother an email. A proper email with multiple paragraphs. Her response every time was on par with, "So good to hear from you!" with some of her annoying baby talk babble thrown in. Poopy-doopy and whatnot. Absolutely no substance or attempts at making conversation whatsoever.

It took years of falling into this trap before I realized this was yet another one-sided game where I was expected to put in maximum effort while she put in zero. I give, she receives, the end. And she genuinely thinks there's nothing wrong with that. Genuinely believes I'm being a big ol' meaniehead by not continuously pouring my hear out into a void while getting nothing in return.

[moglow]

Joining the big ole meaniehead club and proud to be a member finally! It truly doesn't enter her mind to show any interest in others, not one glimmer of interest in actual conversation or relationships. It kinda boggles my mind that it took me this many years to understand just how limited md really is and probably an indicator of my own limitations. We have a relationship because she's the mother. Period. Based on the snippiness of comments she's made, I'm fairly sure she has some hard and fast internal rules and regulations regarding that relationship that we're completely failing to meet. Know why? Because we have no clue what those might be. She doesn't talk to anyone and we're expected to read her mind. AND she never build relationships with anyone of whom I'm aware, seems confused that she's alone and left there in it.

[Hilltop]

Funny I saw my mothers eyes glaze over when I was talking once.  Only time she is interested is if it will be information or something to talk about. 

Moglow that's so true isn't it that "We have a relationship because she's the mother."

I doubt any of us would choose this type of relationship in our lives.

[Call Me Cordelia]

I feel like the context of this thread is helpful, but if mods think it's better as a new topic, okay.

One of my kids is super intense about his interests. He is not on the autism spectrum but the evaluator told us that if Asperger's were still a thing, he would have met that criteria. He is also "gifted." I have been using toolbox stuff just to deal with it. Have a time limit, boundaries about when I will listen to him go on (and on and on) about minutiae I just can't bring myself to care much about, etc. for my own sanity. I listen because I'm the mother. Lately my bandwidth for it has been lower. Guilt.

How it relates here is I feel like my parents reactions to me must be what I'm doing to my son. They didn't care about what I cared about. Their eyes would glaze over too. I know it's not the same thing, or in the same degree. But the story I still tell myself is maybe I really was a terribly boring kid! I was quite unpopular in school too so the obvious common denominator there is me. And as an adult my parents clearly didn't approve of the life I chose for myself. So why would I expect them to take an interest? Shame.

[moglow]

The difference, Cordelia, is that you Try.  You recognize that your son has some issues and you work with them. One of my brothers is über intense tunnel visioned at times, in my mind I refer to it as the lecture series. He'll drone on and on and wear out every parcel of my person in the process! 

But like you, I listen. I ask questions. I try to maintain the connections and show I'm there. We don't cut them off when they have something personal they want to share or need to work through. You don't voice your stuff, blank him completely then "well gotta go."

[Hilltop]

Call me Cordelia it's probably wearing for anyone if someone has intense interests.  I wish I could say that with my mother but I rarely talk about myself or my interests with her.  If I do her eyes glaze over and conversation drifts back to her where she perks up.

I guess for those on the autistic or Asperger's spectrum it's a different level where education on social interaction is needed. Offering that to your kid is different to an uninterested parent imo. 

[Call Me Cordelia]

Thank you. Yes, it is different, but it FEELS the same if that makes sense. I guess I'm gaslighting myself that I am "difficult" like my parents always said, and my kid gets it from me (partly true and therefore of course my fault), and my parents' disinterest was justified, and "You'll know what you put me through when you have kids." So they are excused. Because yes this can be hard. But me I am still not off the hook whatsoever. Because I know what it's like to be dismissed and damned if I'm going to be that parent!

And yes, teaching social skills can be an uphill battle too. Like you CAN'T expect people to listen to a monologue. That education was lacking for me as a kid, too. I had to take the parental monologues and any social difficulty I had was automatically assumed to be my fault and everyone was just going to hate me, get used to it.

This is just one more instance of where my rational brain can be just that, but there's still a heck of a lot of emotion and grief and reorganizing and understanding going on in the background. It's an invisible but constant thing. I'm tired.